When counting specialists for culture victory you can add effect of Sistine chapel. (+2 culture). That has some value even with out culture win target in border city. That making specialist 3 base 3 rep 1 river 2 chapel. One more consideration is one other wander that add 1 hummer per priest. So, even ignore river theoretically specialists max is 3+3+2+1 = 9.
Universal Suffrage Vs. Representation
- Thread starter mutax2003
- Start date
Chris Woods said:
Are you sure they Mercantilism & Liberty stack?
I'm running a game with merc & liberty and I'm only seeing 1 free specialist.
I don't see anything in the descriptions that say they don't stack,
but it doesn't appear to be working for me.
kingjoshi
King
They do stack. You'll have two specialists you can't work tiles with. But SoL only works for cities on the same continent.
Ah, just loaded my game to check it out and you were right.
The confusing thing was when they're all the same type of specialists only 1 says it's free,
but if I work all but 2 of them (can't work the last 2, like you said) and then seperate them, both say they're free.
Glad to know I'm not getting jipped out of SoL.
The confusing thing was when they're all the same type of specialists only 1 says it's free,
but if I work all but 2 of them (can't work the last 2, like you said) and then seperate them, both say they're free.
Glad to know I'm not getting jipped out of SoL.
Zombie69 said:
What something worth depends only what do you need. Priests specialists easy avalible early on and one can provide:
(1 hummer + 1 gold) (innate) + 3 research (representation) + 2 culture (chapel) + 1 hummer (Vat) = 8. It all depends what you need and what you can get. If you look, you will see that specialists coming to peak of there usefullness in renesance age. All this bonuses to specialists maximise at that time, making them powerfull and usefull. In addition, GP they generate are most usefull at that time.
Specialists are quick to get, do not need long defelopment time like towns do.
That is only valid comment if you are not limited by happiness and/or health and did spend a lot of time maxing your population.Bezhukov said:
At renesance time happines and health are the limited factor and to grow a few last population when have only 1-2-3 max excess food take a lot of time.
You are better of having 1-2 less pop towns with out health or happiness problem and use excess food from food reach ties to support specialists.
Ofcouse in static, when you have fully developed town and tech to max benefit of them towns beat specialists. In dynamic that is not a case.
Zombie69
Emperor
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I didn't say that priests were inferior to other specialists. Indeed i agree that with the proper wonder, priests are the best specialist (though not the best GP). However, you said they made 3+3+2+1 and they obviously don't. Also, any specialist is inferior to cottages unless you take into account GPP, so the only reason to have specialists (except free ones) is the GPP, and nothing else.
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
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Mutineer said:
actually the 8 value for priests is only a valid comment if hammers, gold, research, and culture are all worth the same, which they usually aren't.
The fact is this 'best' specialist is highly diversified.... the -2 food's value depends on health/ happiness limits. The Hammer value depends on wht things you can build in this city. The gold/research value is pretty much constant, but the 2 culture may be useless in this city.
AFter a bit more playing, I find myself attracted once more to the original question. Is Universal Suffrage better than Representation?
Early and mid game, the choice is obvious: +3 happiness in your largest cities is a godsend, while +1 hammer per non-existant town is not. Also, at that stage, the economy should be too tight for one to indulge in gold-rushing.
Late game, the +3 happiness becomes useless since it is my mid-sized, developing cities that need the help with happiness, and not my larger cities, which are by now well endowed with Theatres, Temples, Colosseums, Markets, etc.
The +1 hammer per Town, while better than the +3 happiness for the most developed cities, does not fare much better. Likely, that would raise a good cottage-city from 5 or so production to 20, all without the benefit of forge/factory/power source. If you haven't developed strong production centers with 60+ raw production, then your Civ is likely already a smoldering ruin.
The tough decision making comes between +3 beakers per specialist/superspecialist (highly relevant for those of us who like to produce a super-city with super specialists) and the ability to gold-rush at a point in the game where gold is not too hard to produce in large sums.
Early and mid game, the choice is obvious: +3 happiness in your largest cities is a godsend, while +1 hammer per non-existant town is not. Also, at that stage, the economy should be too tight for one to indulge in gold-rushing.
Late game, the +3 happiness becomes useless since it is my mid-sized, developing cities that need the help with happiness, and not my larger cities, which are by now well endowed with Theatres, Temples, Colosseums, Markets, etc.
The +1 hammer per Town, while better than the +3 happiness for the most developed cities, does not fare much better. Likely, that would raise a good cottage-city from 5 or so production to 20, all without the benefit of forge/factory/power source. If you haven't developed strong production centers with 60+ raw production, then your Civ is likely already a smoldering ruin.
The tough decision making comes between +3 beakers per specialist/superspecialist (highly relevant for those of us who like to produce a super-city with super specialists) and the ability to gold-rush at a point in the game where gold is not too hard to produce in large sums.
I allwasy switch to Universal sufferage when I want to buy rush or befor hitting golden age button.
Remember, in golden age you are getting more hummers/commerce if there are allready hummer/commerce present. So, towns in golden age produce 2 hummers under Universal sufferage. With out US your towns only produce additional commerce.
Remember, in golden age you are getting more hummers/commerce if there are allready hummer/commerce present. So, towns in golden age produce 2 hummers under Universal sufferage. With out US your towns only produce additional commerce.
Wodan
Deity
Okay, my two cents.
1) I haven't tried this at home. Not yet anyway.
2) I think Chris might have something. On the face of it, let's look at PER CITY bonuses... if the per city bonuses overwhelm the increased maintenance, then cha-ching!
a) Great Lighthouse -- +2 trade routes per coastal city (yes this goes away at some point)
b) Statue -- one free specialist per city
c) each holy center -- +1 gold per city
d) plus other stuff such as Hanging Gardens
e) luxury goods and health resources -- civ-wide bonuses per city... for these, it's better to have 3 cities at 2/3 size than 2 cities at full size.
Now that said, I think MC has something that, regardless of all this, it comes down to the actual dollars and cents. I'll be interested in what you report Chris, later.
Wodan
1) I haven't tried this at home. Not yet anyway.
2) I think Chris might have something. On the face of it, let's look at PER CITY bonuses... if the per city bonuses overwhelm the increased maintenance, then cha-ching!
a) Great Lighthouse -- +2 trade routes per coastal city (yes this goes away at some point)
b) Statue -- one free specialist per city
c) each holy center -- +1 gold per city
d) plus other stuff such as Hanging Gardens
e) luxury goods and health resources -- civ-wide bonuses per city... for these, it's better to have 3 cities at 2/3 size than 2 cities at full size.
Now that said, I think MC has something that, regardless of all this, it comes down to the actual dollars and cents. I'll be interested in what you report Chris, later.
Wodan
Mutineer, from the moment I get Caste System, I have 3 or so GPP farms producing Great Scientists for settlement in my capital city. As soon as I can get Pacifism, I stick with that until I deem it time to switch to Free Religion permanently.
By the modern age, my next Great Person has the cost of around 4500 points, so even my best GPP farm will take upwards of 30 turns to produce a single GP. A Golden Age every 100 turns just doesn't do it for me.
I played around with my latest game in the modern age, and to my surprise the +3 happiness bonus (or lack thereof) made its usefulness known when I switched to Universal Suffrage to buy the Three Gorges Dam. My cap was fine, but three of my production cities were losing 1-2 people to unhappiness as a result of the switch.
By the modern age, my next Great Person has the cost of around 4500 points, so even my best GPP farm will take upwards of 30 turns to produce a single GP. A Golden Age every 100 turns just doesn't do it for me.
I played around with my latest game in the modern age, and to my surprise the +3 happiness bonus (or lack thereof) made its usefulness known when I switched to Universal Suffrage to buy the Three Gorges Dam. My cap was fine, but three of my production cities were losing 1-2 people to unhappiness as a result of the switch.
SweetBoy19
Chieftain
i prefer universal sufrage, but especially because i can pay gold to finish buildings
but it's good when you get the technology, not by pyramides, because then you have all the gold you have been earning during all previous turns, and then i start spending allllllllll this gold building everywhere... this gold might be 10.000 gold or more at that turn
PD: in my opinion the best principles are: universal sufrage + burocracy + emancipation + ecology (if you have unhealth cities) / free market or state property
and about religion... organized religion seems really good, because you are building faster and you can make profets everywhere with the religion
pacifism seems good if your army is small
and free religion is not so good... only if you have lot of population and angry and lots of religions in your cities
but it's good when you get the technology, not by pyramides, because then you have all the gold you have been earning during all previous turns, and then i start spending allllllllll this gold building everywhere... this gold might be 10.000 gold or more at that turn
PD: in my opinion the best principles are: universal sufrage + burocracy + emancipation + ecology (if you have unhealth cities) / free market or state property
and about religion... organized religion seems really good, because you are building faster and you can make profets everywhere with the religion
pacifism seems good if your army is small
and free religion is not so good... only if you have lot of population and angry and lots of religions in your cities
Guerra
Warlord
This is extremely important to note guys:
Mercantilism causes inflation. Its a little hidden perk in the game. Can be very annoying. It'll reduce your income. Check the financial screen for details.
Mercantilism causes inflation. Its a little hidden perk in the game. Can be very annoying. It'll reduce your income. Check the financial screen for details.
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
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- Apr 3, 2004
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- 12,418
Guerra said:
No the inflation % ONLY depends on the turn of the game you are in, it happens under every civic. (the total amount of inflation depends on total pre-inflation costs and the %)
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