1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Unpopular civics

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by EverNoob, Dec 2, 2009.

  1. Ekolite

    Ekolite The Mighty Jungle

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2007
    Messages:
    5,449
    Location:
    Celtia Atrebatia
    Aha, good point. Maybe you're right there. Possibly instead, could Mercantilism cause merchant specialists to provide one or two extra gold? That would nicely represent the way that merchants benefit from no foreign competition, without stepping on the toes of the Guilds civic or being too overpowered. Alternately the gold bonus could be toned down a little.
     
  2. Ekolite

    Ekolite The Mighty Jungle

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2007
    Messages:
    5,449
    Location:
    Celtia Atrebatia
    So I finally worked out how to add new civics, and implemented my ''Industry'' idea. The effects of Industry are 10% production in all cities (I couldn't work out how to make this only apply to buildings) as well as boosting the yields of workshops and windmills by 1 commerce and 1 production (or food for mills), to reach 3 hammers (or food for mills) and 3 commerce, plus the base yields of the tile (except workshops provide no food and mills no production in all cases). This civic is available at construction and is in the same category as Agrarianism, which I believe is ''Economy''. I've already specified how I have modified the effects of Agrarianism a couple of posts ago.

    Anyway, I tested this civic using Jonas Endain with the Clan of Embers. I started in an area dominated by plains hills, with a few tiles of flood plain and relatively little flat land other then this in my capital. Naturally, I first hit Agriculture for farms. Flood plains provide a nice amount of food already so I didn't feel the need to go for calendar. Instead I went directly to Masonry for Warrens and to work the two Marble resources in the radius of my capital. This proovided a nice production base, and I quickly built up an army of warriors to over run the nearby sidar capital.

    The Sidar capital, a little place called Celo, was surrounded by grassland with two grain resources and a hill or two. Very strong for food, very weak for production. For this reason I researched Construction to allow me to build workshops, and adopted Industry. This allowed me to convert a couple of farms in the locality (courtesy of sidar) into far more useful Workshops. I never build cottages, so these workshops effectively ran my economy at this stage.

    It was roughly turn 80 or so, and being the Clan I went into a stage of Rapid expansion. I built 3 extra cities in approximately 15 turns, followed by a veritible army of workers to develop them. There were no ememies nearby and I was still at peace with the barbarians so I decided it was time for a civic change. I simply had no use for production at this stage of the game, so happilly switched to Agrarianism. This allowed me to grow my new cities to pop cap max in a very short time. Unfortuantely this had the side effect of reducing my workshops to one production, 2 commerce plus tile yields, but like I said I had no need for the production. I also adopted city states at this time.

    One of my new cities had three gold resources which supported my economy and kept me moving swiftly. I still had not researched mining, relying on my quarries in Braduk and workshops in Celo for production so far. I had to disband the majority of my army to stay solvent, but luckilly I was safe from any harm at this point.

    Finally, I got the message that the barbarians were jealous of my tribe's fantastic achievements and were declaring war. Damn. And just when I'd disbanded all my units too. Luckilly, I had a trick up my sleeve for this very situation. Namely, all my now-inactive, useless little workshops. I switched back to Industry, halting most population growth. This was partly due to my farms no longer producing 5 food per tile, and partly because my workshops had returned to being attractive tiles to work. My production per city jumped sizably (I had finally got round to teching Mining at some point to tide me over during periods of Agrarianism by the way) and I rapidly assembled a new army of Axemen and Chariots. The Empire was safe once more.

    Anyway, I then researched Festivals to keep my research at 100%, followed by a personal favourite, Sanitation.

    Sanitation is perhaps one of the most strategic techs in the game. It's an easilly accessible mid-game tech that you can get extremely early if you be-line Construction or Bronze Working, or in fact go down the Festivals line and use the Drama gambit. Anyway, Sanitation allows you one extra food per farm, often allowing you to escape from Agrarianism at this point without causing starvation. It also provides you with Public Baths which raises your happy cap by three. A Massive amount at this stage of the game.

    With my recent expansion (new luxuries) and my soon-to-be-completed Public baths in all important cities, my cities were now far below their happy caps. With production no longer in demand, I switched back to Agrarianism to allow my cities to really start to fill out. My army had little to do at the time so I invaded the nearby Calabim. They had been reduced to a single city after Archeron had taken up residence in their capital so I hadn't really considered them to be a threat at any point so far, if they had been stronger I'd have seen to them earlier.

    The Calabim being seen to, I then decided to finally jump the hurdle of Writing. As the Orcs, you quite often resent researching writing as libraries are unavailable to you, making the tech fittingly useless to you. This often leads to the Clan being late to the Aristocracy party, but that's ok because they usually prefer city states.

    In a few turns I had reached Code of Laws and had a choice on my hands. Namely, Growth, Great People, Production, or Commerce. I could focus on growth by maintaining Agrarianism and working farms, but I was at or near my happy cap in alll cities so this wasn't such a good plan. I could focus on Great People by maintaining Agrarianism and employing lots of specialists, but this was difficult as I had very few specialist slots. I could focus on Production by switching back to Industry, but this was unneccessary as I had no contact with any other civs, had nothing interesting to build, and had the barbarian threat pretty covered.

    Commerce it was. I switched out of City states, in favour of Aristocracy. Aristograrianism is always nice and my tech rate increases notably. My growth slowed down which was good (or at least not bad) and I started to convert some of my fairly redundant workshops into powerful farm improvements. At this point I actually stopped playing, but it's important to note that I may well have started rebuilding my workshops in the late game. This is because at Machinary, workshops and windmills receive a nice boost, and windmills actually become available on route at Engineering. This makes Industry very palatable in the late game. However, to get that far down the tech tree Aristograrianism was my choice.

    Notes:

    1) Choosing your civics has never been this tactical!

    2) Spiritual Leaders make this strategy of alternating periods of growth and production particularly fun and easy.

    3) Industry stacks very nicely with Arete (although I never got a religion in the game I described). Plus one hammer from workshops and mines leads to very nice production. As Arete also works well with Agrarianism due to the bonus to Gpeople points, Runes of Kilmorph is the recomended religion for this strategy.

    4) Are cottages under-powered? I use them very rarely. The only times I ever really consider building one is if I can't build a farm or a mine on the tile and I'm using Agrarianism. Even when I'm not using Aristograrian I rely on other sources of commerce primarilly.

    5) I have yet to test Industry with other civs. I expect that non-spirituals will probably decide to adopt a civic and stick with it instead of the frequent changing I prefer. Still, Industry should still be very useful in many situations without being overpowered. I like how part of the benefit of the civic doesn't become available until the late game.

    Comments?
     
  3. DarkxL0rd

    DarkxL0rd Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    Messages:
    262
    Location:
    Houston
    Just throwing in my 2 cents. I ALWAYS use guilds and consumption and i regularly win deity games
     
  4. hbar

    hbar Constant

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2008
    Messages:
    1,307
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    If you edit the XML, you can set the following values:
    Code:
                <iMilitaryProductionModifier>-20</iMilitaryProductionModifier>
    
    and
    Code:
                <YieldModifiers>
    				<iYield>0</iYield>
    				<iYield>20</iYield>
    				<iYield>0</iYield>
    
    Which will have roughly the same effect. However, you get +20% hammers for wonders and rituals too, although I doubt that's an issue. The display looks a bit weird (+20% :hammers:, -20% military production) but its pretty easy to figure out.
     
  5. Senethro

    Senethro Overlord

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2007
    Messages:
    4,628
    Location:
    The cutest of cephalopods
    Organized Religion in Civ 4 did it so its certainly possible.
     
  6. Ekolite

    Ekolite The Mighty Jungle

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2007
    Messages:
    5,449
    Location:
    Celtia Atrebatia
    Yeah but I was using the excel editor so my options may have been more limitted or something. Every time I try to mod the XML I get a load of errors when I start the game so I stick to the spreadsheet.
     
  7. Breunor

    Breunor Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    2,388
    Location:
    Earth
    These are two of my favorites. If I've got a a farm based empire, 'Guilds' is just great.

    Best wishes,

    Breunor
     

Share This Page