Update 1.2.5 drops tomorrow!

[CivKirk64]

(Also it provides a good benefit to overbuilding.... If I build on an empty spot my next building costs more, if I overbuild, my next building will cost the same... not counting city changes)

And provides a nice incentive to specialize... do I need to build cultural buildings here? maybe just science and food here. (cultural and production when I undertake my mass beautification project)

Is overbuilding actually cheaper? has this always been true?
I do get needing to specialize, I just think everyone should have everything, or at least the base version of every type.
I do like specializing, but more in the sense that, when choosing locations, this city has 3 potential great culture plots , vs this one has 4 great production/Science. Don't really like the idea of the cost being prohibitive, I'm going to prioritize build order based on location strategy, but I don't like not building something ever because I ran out of time in an age.

 

[Krikkit1]

Is overbuilding actually cheaper? has this always been true?
I do get needing to specialize, I just think everyone should have everything, or at least the base version of every type.
I do like specializing, but more in the sense that, when choosing locations, this city has 3 potential great culture plots , vs this one has 4 great production/Science. Don't really like the idea of the cost being prohibitive, I'm going to prioritize build order based on location strategy, but I don't like not building something ever because I ran out of time in an age.

Well now it will definitely be cheaper because
I have 5 obsolete buildings, and 2 new buildings I want to build
right now 5 obsolete=+25% building cost

if I place the first new building somewhere else
5 obsolete+ 1 new... means the next new one gets+30% cost
but If I overbuild
4 obsolete+1 new...means the next new one is +25% cost

If you focus purely on building, just one city with no UBs, counting the City hall (and if you have coast+river tiles... but not counting bridges which are repeatable.. and Walls aren't buildings)
Antiquity: 18 buildings (so +85% cost for the last one)
Exploration: 23 buildings (so +110% cost for the last one)
Modern:26 buildings (so +125% cost for the last one)

So building one big city.. your building costs are only slightly more than doubled
Now if you have 10 cities those costs are about tripled

 

[WillK96]

I wonder how the AI will adjust to the building cost increases.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I'll add I think the solution to, "People build too much and just build everything everywhere all at once", is to insert MORE things to build.

That's the idea which existed I believe before Civ1 even appeared and it has the same flaws as ICS. Building more things increases your output, letting you build even more things and all this just snowball in favor of the player who took the lead. In the end, despite having big list of things to do, the system doesn't provide real choice.

But that even more important, this solution is only for one of the problems which increased building cost tries to solve. This change in the patch doesn't only try to limit number of buildings, there are other mechanics for this (like buildings taking tiles and having maintenance). It also tries to shift tall-wide balance a bit in the favor of tall, making towns more viable.

Currently, cities are a bit too good with their buildings, so it makes sense yo convert as many towns as possible within available gold. But with buildings costing more with each city and cities having hard time building many of them, keeping settlements as towns will make more sense.

 

[stealth_nsk]

After looking at the UI a bit, I think the big thing missed in the building placement UI is adjacency information about tiles, which aren't reachable by urban districts yet. If you plan your city, you want to know where you're going to spread in the future, not only where you could spread now.

 

[Leucarum]

I hope it helps encouraging us to specialize our cities and settlements. That was something Civ6 did pretty well, but 7 has got worse...

I am somewhat doubtful that this yield scaling will solve problems with late game. Even though it likely helps, and the removal of X% boosts is absolutely necessary. I'll play a game into modern for the first time in months to see at least...

 

[Xandinho]

I hope it helps encouraging us to specialize our cities and settlements. That was something Civ6 did pretty well, but 7 has got worse...

I am somewhat doubtful that this yield scaling will solve problems with late game. Even though it likely helps, and the removal of X% boosts is absolutely necessary. I'll play a game into modern for the first time in months to see at least...

I believe the adjustments to building production costs will delay the modern era victory conditions and, as a result, give it some extra longevity. I’m also eager to test it in practice and see how it turns out.

 

[CivKirk64]

Well now it will definitely be cheaper because
I have 5 obsolete buildings, and 2 new buildings I want to build
right now 5 obsolete=+25% building cost

if I place the first new building somewhere else
5 obsolete+ 1 new... means the next new one gets+30% cost
but If I overbuild
4 obsolete+1 new...means the next new one is +25% cost

3 things
First, do we know for sure that obsolete buildings at the start of a new age, even count against the new building cost?
Is it counting how many buildings are in a city total, or how many total of a particular building I already have, as in I have 5 banks the 6th one is going to be too expensive, but I only have 2 universities, so the university will be cheaper.

Lastly. Is this fun? Do they want players fussing about it ? If you get to the point where the buildings will now take up too much time, I guess i have to produce culture / science instead and rush through the age even faster meaning we have even less time to accomplish anything.

I just want to play the game and have fun, I don't care if it is balanced or fair. and this sounds worse than the settlement cap. At least the cap can be managed buy constructing happiness buildings.. oh wait now I can't because the price of this temple is now 30 turns instead of 10.

 

[Leucarum]

I believe the adjustments to building production costs will delay the modern era victory conditions and, as a result, give it some extra longevity. I’m also eager to test it in practice and see how it turns out.

Assuming these apply to the AI equally, I expect it won't make much difference. The issue is still that the player can prep for age transitions better and ends up snowballing as a result.

I'm also curious whether civs with good UIs - e.g. Aksum - might see their stocks rise since those can still stack up but won't be harder to access.

 

[Evolena]

It's funny how total yields rebalance was somehow not mentioned in the last week patch notes, but changes with Napoleon was there.

That may be because it was not a patch note, but a mere teaser.

 

[Krikkit1]

3 things
First, do we know for sure that obsolete buildings at the start of a new age, even count against the new building cost?
Is it counting how many buildings are in a city total, or how many total of a particular building I already have, as in I have 5 banks the 6th one is going to be too expensive, but I only have 2 universities, so the university will be cheaper.

Lastly. Is this fun? Do they want players fussing about it ? If you get to the point where the buildings will now take up too much time, I guess i have to produce culture / science instead and rush through the age even faster meaning we have even less time to accomplish anything.

I just want to play the game and have fun, I don't care if it is balanced or fair. and this sounds worse than the settlement cap. At least the cap can be managed buy constructing happiness buildings.. oh wait now I can't because the price of this temple is now 30 turns instead of 10.

it’s 5% per building in the same settlement (so since you can only have one university in a settlement type is irrelevant)…it’s possible obsolete ones don’t count…so that could go either way.

then 10% per city

And this can be managed by building production (and gold) buildings.

If the temple is 30 turns instead of 10 you either have 20 cities (not just settlements) Or you are adding the Temple to a highly developed city…while also having 10 more cities.

Also, the Temple (and production/gold buildings) is better now because it has a higher base yield.

So you if you want highly developed cities
1.make your first buildings production/gold
2. decide whether you want a smaller number of fully developed cities or a very large number of moderately developed cities.
3. get a lot of Mining Towns and Gold Buy discounts.

 

[ehecatzin]

Really cool changes, Im really curious to see how it shakes the building progression, because one of my gripes was how samey cities always ended up. I hope it leads to better city specialization.

 

[Siptah]

I believe the adjustments to building production costs will delay the modern era victory conditions and, as a result, give it some extra longevity. I’m also eager to test it in practice and see how it turns out.

I think for modern, especially science and economy will slowed down a bit. Previously, CS helped a lot there with science and free techs, and gold was too plentiful. I'm expecting +10 turns just from no more free techs, and another 10 turns extra from no more %.

Not sure if culture nor military will be affected that much.

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Yet, overall, this looks fantastic. A lot of things that were on my personal wishlist are in this update as it seems. Can't wait to try it in a a few days.

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Side note: what do I build now in the first turns of modern?

 

[Xandinho]

I think for modern, especially science and economy will slowed down a bit. Previously, CS helped a lot there with science and free techs, and gold was too plentiful. I'm expecting +10 turns just from no more free techs, and another 10 turns extra from no more %.

Not sure if culture nor military will be affected that much.

---

Yet, overall, this looks fantastic. A lot of things that were on my personal wishlist are in this update as it seems. Can't wait to try it in a a few days.

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Side note: what do I build now in the first turns of modern?

I believe that culture may also get a slight delay, because now it will take us a little longer to build museums.

 

[pjotroos]

Side note: what do I build now in the first turns of modern

Converting production into science or culture was already a viable option. This just makes it more of one.

 

[Elhoim]

I like the direction of the city changes, but in general I dislike scaling as a mechanic because it's never presented upfront, and sucker punches the player after they made the choice. I don't think it would discourage players from converting most settlements to cities, and they would only feel that things take forever to build. In any case, it's not a bad change.

 

[Foulweather]

Another thing to consider here are late age buildings. They were questionable already, unless needed for legacy paths (like Academies if you don't have enough slots), but with buildings increasing cost of future buildings, those could become even less attractive. I'm afraid this could increase the problem of "nothing useful to do" in the second part of the ages.

I already didn't build much in Modern. Just run Science or Culture projects until you unlock what you need.

 

[Tuvok694]

Is it to be expected that most mods won't work for some time after the patch?

 

[Gorbles]

Is it to be expected that most mods won't work for some time after the patch?

It's always expected to be a possibility, for any games that allow modding.

UI mods are particularly at risk in this case, in my opinion (given the changes coming in). I've seen modders put a fantastic amount of work into making sure their stuff doesn't break easily, but youbcan never say never.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Full release notes dropped for 1.2.5:

Game Update Notes | Civilization VII

Read the most up-to-date Game Update notes for Civilization VII, along with an archive of previous updates!

civilization.2k.com

This is a big update, folks!