[GS] Updating and reworking Vanilla and RnF Civ

[Eagle Pursuit]

The Tsike buff is good, and deleafing the Khevsur's tech helps too. Plus giving a new victory that Georgia has an affinity for, is cause for revaluation.

I'm not saying Georgia is going to pop up to top tier. But maybe it should stop being in the lowest tier all by itself.

 

[acluewithout]

The Tsike buff is good, and deleafing the Khevsur's tech helps too. Plus giving a new victory that Georgia has an affinity for, is cause for revaluation.

I'm not saying Georgia is going to pop up to top tier. But maybe it should stop being in the lowest tier all by itself.

Yeah, I agree with that.

Georgia is fine powerwise. Yup, maybe a bit lower powered compared to high power Civs, but still very fun. They have a great synergy with Monarchy too given they’re all about Walls and Envoys, and then you go from their to Theocracy to use your Faith.

Kversur is also a good unit, made more so by changes to Military Tactics.

But it’s a long slog to get to their unique walls, particularly given you can’t buy walls with Gold. It’s always sad when you have an ability and you just can’t use it.

Georgia need a more general buff to building Ancient and Medieval Walls, so they actually have an incentive to build those. Just spreading the existing +faith Tsike bonus over the three wall levels would do that and or giving walls an adjacency bonus eg for farms. Maybe Victor should have the ability to buy walls too as a more general wall buff.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

The Tsike buff is good, and deleafing the Khevsur's tech helps too. Plus giving a new victory that Georgia has an affinity for, is cause for revaluation.

I'm not saying Georgia is going to pop up to top tier. But maybe it should stop being in the lowest tier all by itself.

All of Georgia's issues were addressed except the need to have later era walls in the first place. I'd like to see them get a bonus to the construction of all Walls, to reflect that only the Ancient ones have particular value under the current game rules.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

All of Georgia's issues were addressed except the need to have later era walls in the first place. I'd like to see them get a bonus to the construction of all Walls, to reflect that only the Ancient ones have particular value under the current game rules.

I think they actually moved the wrong direction on that aspect. For any human player, there is hardly a need to expend currency of any sort on walls beyond ancient. Simply because the AI just isn't that much of a threat. That production or faith is better spent elsewhere.

Now they've gone and made all varieties of wall stronger, up from 50 to 100 hit points. Now everyone is quite comfortable behind their ancient walls. If they want to incentivize building medieval and renaissance walls, they should cut ancient walls down to 25 hit points or make ancient walls weak to medieval and later units.

 

[tedhebert]

I think it's premature to come to ANY conclusion at this moment... let's wait and play the expansion shall we...then we'll see how every previous civ has REALLY suffered or enjoyed a rebirth

 

[DJ_Tanner]

I think they actually moved the wrong direction on that aspect. For any human player, there is hardly a need to expend currency of any sort on walls beyond ancient. Simply because the AI just isn't that much of a threat. That production or faith is better spent elsewhere.

Now they've gone and made all varieties of wall stronger, up from 50 to 100 hit points. Now everyone is quite comfortable behind their ancient walls. If they want to incentivize building medieval and renaissance walls, they should cut ancient walls down to 25 hit points or make ancient walls weak to medieval and later units.

I really like that era idea. Give all next era units a bonus to older era walls.

 

[criZp]

Don't railroads cause a tiny bit of CO2 emission? Your idea would mean that as Persia you could never decide on your CO2 output... Seems illogical to me.

emphasis on "tiny bit".

 

[pgm123]

I think they actually moved the wrong direction on that aspect. For any human player, there is hardly a need to expend currency of any sort on walls beyond ancient. Simply because the AI just isn't that much of a threat. That production or faith is better spent elsewhere.

Now they've gone and made all varieties of wall stronger, up from 50 to 100 hit points. Now everyone is quite comfortable behind their ancient walls. If they want to incentivize building medieval and renaissance walls, they should cut ancient walls down to 25 hit points or make ancient walls weak to medieval and later units.

The weakness to later units makes a lot of sense. I tend to build walls as busy work, but that's because I'm not an optimal player. I know I should be doing projects, but they're not as exciting to me.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

I think they actually moved the wrong direction on that aspect. For any human player, there is hardly a need to expend currency of any sort on walls beyond ancient. Simply because the AI just isn't that much of a threat. That production or faith is better spent elsewhere.

Now they've gone and made all varieties of wall stronger, up from 50 to 100 hit points. Now everyone is quite comfortable behind their ancient walls. If they want to incentivize building medieval and renaissance walls, they should cut ancient walls down to 25 hit points or make ancient walls weak to medieval and later units.

True. When I saw that the strength of walls had gone up, I was hopeful it meant a re-look at siege warfare balance, with a nerf to rams and possibly obsolescence of catapults, etc., when faced with later-era walls.

 

[Brutus2]

I think they actually moved the wrong direction on that aspect. For any human player, there is hardly a need to expend currency of any sort on walls beyond ancient. Simply because the AI just isn't that much of a threat. That production or faith is better spent elsewhere.

Now they've gone and made all varieties of wall stronger, up from 50 to 100 hit points. Now everyone is quite comfortable behind their ancient walls. If they want to incentivize building medieval and renaissance walls, they should cut ancient walls down to 25 hit points or make ancient walls weak to medieval and later units.

I agree with all points and I get that human players may not need stronger walls but still, Faith and Tourism from each wall which is doubled during Golden Ages, which Georgia can string together easily makes them more or less on par with any culture / tourism improvement other civs have with the added bonus that you don't need to take up a map tiles like you would for Chateau, Sphinx, Ice Hockey Rink, Great Wall, Pairidaeza, ect. Plus her walls are double strength of normal Renaissance walls so if the AI builds them it does make her cities much stronger and helps with a "turtle" strategy for the AI. So, you may not need the defensive part of the wall as a human player but I would hardly say they are any less worth of spending any currency on than any of those other culture / tourism improvements.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I agree with all points and I get that human players may not need stronger walls but still, Faith and Tourism from each wall which is doubled during Golden Ages, which Georgia can string together easily makes them more or less on par with any culture / tourism improvement other civs have with the added bonus that you don't need to take up a map tiles like you would for Chateau, Sphinx, Ice Hockey Rink, Great Wall, Pairidaeza, ect. Plus her walls are double strength of normal Renaissance walls so if the AI builds them it does make her cities much stronger and helps with a "turtle" strategy for the AI. So, you may not need the defensive part of the wall as a human player but I would hardly say they are any less worth of spending any currency on than any of those other culture / tourism improvements.

But it's not just the (admittedly reduced) cost of building/buying the Tzike. You also have to get the unwanted Medieval Walls too. There are much more direct things you can build for Faith and Tourism.

 

[Brutus2]

But it's not just the (admittedly reduced) cost of building/buying the Tzike. You also have to get the unwanted Medieval Walls too. There are much more direct things you can build for Faith and Tourism.

Absolutely a fair point. The Tzike has prerequisites that you have to build first in each city which has to be factored into the cost which other improvements do not have and there are definitely a lot of good things in the game to spend Faith on now. Maybe I'm just trying to be overly optimistic but I think not having to use up multiple tiles for your unique Tourism improvement is a big plus. For me when I play France, Egypt or China, I usually can't spare the space to put down a bunch of Sphinx, Chateaux or Great Wall segments but I find that walls usually only take a few turns to build, especially if you use the policy card (does that one go obsolete at any point?) and with a little luck maybe you get the Great Person that gives free walls in three cities.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

So now we know China unlocks Canals at Masonry instead of Steam Power. That's a substantial difference, but it's mostly in the flavor department unless you can route some Trade Routes through them.

 

[Sagax]

So now we know China unlocks Canals at Masonry instead of Steam Power. That's a substantial difference, but it's mostly in the flavor department unless you can route some Trade Routes through them.

And unless they are cheaper because of earlier era access.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Absolutely a fair point. The Tzike has prerequisites that you have to build first in each city which has to be factored into the cost which other improvements do not have and there are definitely a lot of good things in the game to spend Faith on now. Maybe I'm just trying to be overly optimistic but I think not having to use up multiple tiles for your unique Tourism improvement is a big plus. For me when I play France, Egypt or China, I usually can't spare the space to put down a bunch of Sphinx, Chateaux or Great Wall segments but I find that walls usually only take a few turns to build, especially if you use the policy card (does that one go obsolete at any point?) and with a little luck maybe you get the Great Person that gives free walls in three cities.

She be able to just pay to upgrade the walls as if they were units.

 

[Al Bundy]

Can anybody tell me if Spain has been reworked, please? I can't find the answer.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Can anybody tell me if Spain has been reworked, please? I can't find the answer.

@Giskler got a screenshot yesterday. It did not appear to change.

 

[Vrenir]

I don’t think it does, but Egypt should get immunity to river flooding damage.

 

[Sagax]

I don’t think it does, but Egypt should get immunity to river flooding damage.

That’s precisely how they have updated Egypt for GS.

 

[Al Bundy]

@Giskler got a screenshot yesterday. It did not appear to change.

Thank you for answering.

Really disappointing. Many of the GS Civs are close to be OP and they leave possibly the weakest of the Vanilla Civs untouched. Very poor balance in my opinion.