Upgrading vs building new troops

[Janie]

Title ^^ - Wanted to get some opinions. I would guess that upgrading troops with a lot of XP is worth it. I always upgrade all of my troops, but it's dawned on me that may not be optimal (maybe if you get pentagon?)
By late game I have cities that can product troops with quite a bit of experience, more then my existing troops already have. Is it more logical to delete and build new ones?

 

[claudiupb]

If the unit doesn't have enough promotions I don't bother. I rarely upgrade units if I am playing peaceful, just build new ones. If a unit is very obsolete and requires many upgrades you may even spend more on upgrading than on rushing a new unit. If some units have a lot of experience I may keep them and occasionally upgrade them, to have an small amount of units to defend in case of an unexpected/unavoidable war.

Pentagon is one of the most useless wonders in the game. It's not worth building it, and even if you somehow conquer it, it won't save you a big amount of money, because most likely you have upgraded your military by that point (you may need to upgrade some infantry to mech infantry but that is not that expensive anyway).

 

[HorseshoeHermit]

What have you got, hammers or gold?

And do you want to disband the unit entirely? The question is, is the maintenance during the time it's not fighting, gonna be worth it for the possibility (or actuality) of having a war -and that unit- actually sitting somewhere purposeful in that war.

Well, this glosses over one other point, but, it's a start. It's not really an "answer", it depends on what else you want to do. It's about asking the right question.

 

[joncnunn]

It's generally a bad idea to disband obsolete troops.
But they don't needed to be upgraded ASAP the moment you get a new tech either.

Instead just keep the older ones around and upgrade when needed. Or if you really have too many units, then sell to city states.

 

[themathmajician]

If tradition or honor, put them in cities for some benefits.

 

[consentient]

In general, it's better to have units that continue to accumulate XP all game and upgrade them - example in my current game I have Artillery with Logistics and Range and I only researched Dynamite 3 turns ago. And I have Cavalry with Blitz/Medic/March.

But the XBs I have are now pretty ineffective and rather than park them in the city (scouts have done that job all game long) I like to use them as meat shields for the Artillery and Cavalry. They've served their function, are not worth the upgrade cost to Gatlings, since Gatlings are crap, and are better to speed up city capture.

 

[Newbstep]

Hmm, very subjective. Depends on the civ, money in money out and all that. Upgrading doesn't increase unit maintenance in gold, yet in turn it does not increase hex control. Really it's all about environment.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

In general, it's better to have units that continue to accumulate XP all game and upgrade them - example in my current game I have Artillery with Logistics and Range and I only researched Dynamite 3 turns ago. And I have Cavalry with Blitz/Medic/March.

But the XBs I have are now pretty ineffective and rather than park them in the city (scouts have done that job all game long) I like to use them as meat shields for the Artillery and Cavalry. They've served their function, are not worth the upgrade cost to Gatlings, since Gatlings are crap, and are better to speed up city capture.

you can also garrison them for SP bonuses. i'll leave them there to deal with barbs if im out conquering. i often just gift them to CSs im invested in though.

 

[beetle]

Most upgrades are relatively inexpensive or at least proportional to the increased strength. Your expensive-to-upgrade melee units probably have 3+ promotions -- so well worth the cost.

But the XBs I have are now pretty ineffective and rather than park them in the city (scouts have done that job all game long) I like to use them as meat shields for the Artillery and Cavalry.

XBs are so expensive to upgrade, I would rather “use them up” too. XBs that survive the rough treatment only get upgrade if I am rolling in gold. Gats are subject to the same abuse. The Machine Gun to Bazooka upgrade is cheap -- but so few units survive that long...

you can also garrison them for SP bonuses. i'll leave them there to deal with barbs if im out conquering. i often just gift them to CSs im invested in though.

This makes sense to me too. But do people build scouts for the various garrison bonuses? After exploring, I tend to sit mine on dig sites rather than ever bringing them home. I will only have two or three, but the timing for that seems to work out pretty well most games. (That is, all the land is fully un-fogged just about when archeology unlocks.) Or should I have the map fully explored long before that? Or do people bring their scouts home after meeting all the AIs, CS, NWs?

 

[consentient]

XBs are so expensive to upgrade, I would rather “use them up” too. XBs that survive the rough treatment only get upgrade if I am rolling in gold. Gats are subject to the same abuse. The Machine Gun to Bazooka upgrade is cheap -- but so few units survive that long...

Yeah, exactly. The sudden paradigm shift that comes with Military Science and soon after, Dynamite, is too much for these lovely units that have probably bagged you several capitals.

Not only do I use them up as cannon fodder, but I'd almost never upgrade them. Gatlings are totally pointless, even with Range and Logistics. At this stage of the game, you should be able to win with Artillery and Cavalry. If you can't, you're going to need Bombers, not Gatlings.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

This makes sense to me too. But do people build scouts for the various garrison bonuses? After exploring, I tend to sit mine on dig sites rather than ever bringing them home. I will only have two or three, but the timing for that seems to work out pretty well most games. (That is, all the land is fully un-fogged just about when archeology unlocks.) Or should I have the map fully explored long before that? Or do people bring their scouts home after meeting all the AIs, CS, NWs?

depends on the depth of conquering. i'll stock them with scouts only if i dont have those legacy units (they're still pretty viable). i prioritize legacy XBs (assuming youre sufficiently past gatlings anyway) like this: gift to a CS for 5/10 turns extension, garrison for free or honor bonus, delete for gold. (i should start looking at the option of shot fodder more though.)

at each of these points in a game they're paltry bonuses but you generally know which ones you'd prefer. i often want the extra turns of CS bonuses more than deletion gold. but if not then they'll be garrisons for barbs. i think using them as fodder is much better than deleting them for gold so it would be above that in the pecking order, but equivalently situational vs garrisons. but CS gifts are my favorite use for units i dont want anymore. but XBs get particular attention since they can still be useful with promos against later barbs.

and yeah ive used scouts for garrisons too but only when ive lost those units normally or puppeted a lot more than 'normal'. i often forget really late when scouts become obsolete so sometimes it is too late for me to think about it. it gets lost in the tedium of unit management.

 

[Nigel_Tufnel2]

I like Gats - the highly promoted ones can sit right next to a city if there is an open hex and do quite a bit of damage x2. By then they have Cover and often Cover II, so when injured they can take some heat. Plus they pot-shot cities from 2 tiles away and protect flanks and provide ZOC. I probably don't have the massive armies others do, so they don't seem expendable to me. Veterans with Shock III sit in ports and do a lot of damage to enemy ships too. I keep building a few fresh units as garrisons, they are handy when you have barbs spawning. ToA is the gift that keeps giving! Of course I am mostly building Cavs by then and I long ago built up two siege armies...

 

[beetle]

By then they have Cover and often Cover II, so when injured they can take some heat. Plus they pot-shot cities from 2 tiles away and protect flanks and provide ZOC.

Cover protects melee units from city bombardment. It is a very effective buff.

Cover does not help ranged units survive city bombardment. Are you playing at Deity? Are you an era ahead of the AI? My Gats and MG die quickly if they get close to cities. Cover helps against bombers though, so that can be quite useful. Gats and MG are really useful on the field, just not near cities.

 

[Nigel_Tufnel2]

I've done dozens of Deity games, and I found Gats useful throughout. Not as good as Melee for taking punishment, of course. Especially once I have split into two armies, I need them for filler for a while, and the highly-promoted ones are unparalleled garrisons for near the front when counter-attacks come. Of course, I don't squeeze out every drop for DomV - I am still too much of an empire idealist to sell science buildings, etc.

I almost always hit some critical mass where I am unstoppable, and then I suppose it doesn't matter what I build/buy!