US soldier jailed for Iraq murder

[Jack the Ripper]

A US soldier has been jailed for three years in a plea bargain following the murder of a severely wounded 16-year-old Iraqi, the military says.

JOHN KERRY DID THE SAME THING! PUT KERRY IN JAIL NOW!!!!

 

[Speedo]

I can't help feeling somewhat sorry for the guy, even though he made an exceedingly stupid choice. In theory I can agree with concept of a mercy killing, but anybody wearing SSgt stripes should be smart enough to know that if you actually do it, you're going to be crucified no matter what the circumstances.

 

[Jack the Ripper]

Kerry's been given a pass....

even after 30 years of blaming his comrades of doing worse things...

 

[GEChallenger]

BAGHDAD - A U.S. soldier pleaded guilty at his court martial Friday to killing a critically injured 16-year-old Iraqi, the military says.

Staff Sgt. Johnny Horne, 30, of Winston-Salem, N.C., was charged with the death on Aug. 18 in Baghdad's Sadr City, the site of heavy fighting between coalition forces and militants loyal to Shia cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.

Witnesses described the incident at previous military court hearings as a mercy killing.

Court heard that several U.S. soldiers fired on Iraqi men who were placing homemade bombs along a road. They moved closer to find a blazing truck surrounded by injured people.

Witnesses said Horne and other soldiers tried to rescue an Iraqi teenager inside the truck who had gaping wounds in his abdomen and serious burns.

A military investigator told court that the soldiers thought he was too ill to survive and decided that "the best course of action was to put [the victim] out of his misery."

Horne also pleaded guilty to a charge of trying to get a colleague to commit murder.

The U.S. military said Horne would be sentenced Friday.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2004/12/10/iraq-court-martial-041210.html

Perhaps it's best not to jump to conclusions.

 

[GEChallenger]

Now look at this article, from Reuters:

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - A U.S. soldier was sentenced to three years in jail for the murder of a wounded Iraqi teenager in Baghdad in August, the U.S. military said on Saturday.

Having pleaded guilty a day earlier under a plea bargain that averted the risk of a death sentence, Staff Sergeant Johnny Horne, 30, from Winston-Salem, North Carolina, was sentenced by a panel of seven senior soldiers at a court martial in Baghdad.

During the proceedings his action was described as a "mercy killing." He shot a youth who had survived an attack by U.S. troops on a garbage truck which they suspected of being used by guerrillas during a Shi'ite uprising in Baghdad in August. U.S. officials have been quoted as saying six other Iraqis also died.

A second U.S. soldier is to face trial on related charges.

Local people say the men were innocent garbage collectors.

The trial, one of several brought against U.S. troops for murder and other serious crimes, including abusing detainees at Baghdad's Abu Ghraib prison, is held up by U.S. commanders as a mark of good faith toward Iraqis that soldiers are accountable.

Horne was also reduced in rank to private and dishonorably discharged. The incident came during overnight clashes in the poor Sadr City district on Aug. 18 with militia loyal to Shi'ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr. Local people identified the victim as Qassim Hassan, 16, who was working with relatives.

Earlier this week, U.S. Army Captain Rogelio Maynulet was ordered to face a full court martial for the murder in May of a man wounded as troops pursued Sadr's militiamen near Najaf.

Maynulet says he too carried out a "mercy killing."

IRAQIS FEARFUL

Many Iraqis who welcomed the invasion to overthrow Saddam Hussein last year, have grown to fear the U.S. troops occupying their country, saying Americans in constant fear of attack often fire on the innocent by mistake. Thousands of Iraqis have been killed since the invasion, many, but by no means all, by rebels.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=7062169

Emphasis mine, of course, as with the above post.

You see the power of spin? Nothing is a lie, everything is true-- but it's phrased to paint the soldier in a bad light. Look at the phrasing, the words used: "Murder," "Shot a youth," the fact that "innocent garbage collectors" is used twice. All of this is true. Is it phrased to provoke a reaction? I think so. Lets also remember that Reuters, IIRC, is among the many new agencies who avoid using the word 'terrorist' because it's inflammatory. Food for thought, at least.

 

[GEChallenger]

As for my updated opinion: I don't even know if this soldier deseves imprisonment or a court-martial. It looks to me like he's a political sacrifice.

Edit: I just read zulu's article, and it actually does say that the boy had "severe abdominal wounds and burns." It's actually pretty objective although it has a slightly different description of the event than the CBC one. Why would anyone who actually read the article jump to such quick and negative conclusions as some of you did?

 

[Shaihulud]

Actually I think the sentence is pretty harsh considering that soldiers ARE expected to kill people. Perhaps the boy killed was an innocent, however the soldiers were still had the right to fire upon the vehicle, note that the article did justified them for that. It was the action later that the SSGT was called into account for, I mean a SSGT should know when someone is injured motally right? And the article mentioned an open abdominal wound that is pretty ugly and painful so I guess he did what he felt was right....

I know that in the same situation I would have done the same , it's too bad that a mans career is sacrificed for something like this.

 

[neviden]

1) Any truck driving around Sadr City at night loaded with young men is asking to get shot at, especially if they are violating curfew or if they fail to halt when ordered to (which is exceedingly common there).

How about if someone invades US and imposes curfew. Unemployment is at 80% and you need money to buy food. Would you take job as a garbage man or would you rather starve to death? It's not like you expect your liberators are going to shoot some kids trying to keep diseases from spreading.

2) Exactly what doctor do you think would be willing to come into the Sadr City slum at night in a war zone? The truth is that if you are wounded in the slums of Baghdad at night you better hope your family can get you to a hospital because there is no ambulance that will come pick you up. Frankly the care given in Iraqi medical facilities to trauma patients ranges somewhere between euthenasia and benign neglect.

Do you realy think locals would kill a doctor that would try to help that burned boy? Only people that would shoot at ambulances would be US soldiers (hey! they are breaking curfew! terrorists!! FIRE!!). Or have i missed all those suicide bombings at Iraqi hospitals..

3) The best option was to ship those that looked likely to survive to Ibn Sina Hospital in the Green Zone. They would be stabilized and transfered to an Iraqi facility........then reference #2.

That would be the best. Even more since they figured out that they were just kids trying to make a living picking up garbage..

4) Wrong again. It is his fault. It is clearly not the policy of the Army to treat wounded enemies in that way. He chose to actively snuff out the mans life and should go to jail.

Jep. Jail for him. And how can people defend his actions? How would you like it, it you had an accident, a cop would come, look at you and shoot you like a dog?

 

[neviden]

You see the power of spin? Nothing is a lie, everything is true-- but it's phrased to paint the soldier in a bad light. Look at the phrasing, the words used: "Murder," "Shot a youth," the fact that "innocent garbage collectors" is used twice. All of this is true. Is it phrased to provoke a reaction? I think so. Lets also remember that Reuters, IIRC, is among the many new agencies who avoid using the word 'terrorist' because it's inflammatory. Food for thought, at least.

How would you describe it then? Where is the spin?

You are a US soldier. You see a truck. Bang, bang. You go look. Garbage, wonded and dead teens, no terrorist, no explosives. You see soldier shoot teenager. What words would you use, that would not be 'power of spin' ?

"Our brave soldiers dealt another blow to Iraqi terrorists. They kill all those guys that are driving at night despite our orders not to. When all the terrorists will be killed, democracy will prosper and we will be victrorious."

I agre with Reuters that 'terrorist' is a loaded word.. Terrorist is a guy who's aim is to cause terror. If you are trying to kill ocupiers, then you are and rebel, insurgent or something like that. And US is ocupating Iraq. It's current plans are to keep 130.000 troops there at lest 2 years. It plans to spend 1 - 2 billion $ on "us embasy". It's building large camps. And after the election "Iraqi democratic goverment" will "invite" US to stay.. aren't liberators supposed to leave? Sadam is no more you know.. and WMD didn't exist.. hey, maybe all that oil has something to do with it..

As for my updated opinion: I don't even know if this soldier deseves imprisonment or a court-martial. It looks to me like he's a political sacrifice.

Edit: I just read zulu's article, and it actually does say that the boy had "severe abdominal wounds and burns." It's actually pretty objective although it has a slightly different description of the event than the CBC one. Why would anyone who actually read the article jump to such quick and negative conclusions as some of you did?

Because we treat both of them as persons?

I can see the point of "puting him out of a missery", but since autanasia is still a crime in US and in Iraq he is guilty. That's not something that could be blamed on "heat of a battle" or something like that..

 

[BasketCase]

Doh, forgot to post in this one.

At first blush I'd say life without parole, but then there's a good reason why I'm a software developer and not a judge.

Now this:

Good to see that he's jailed, though. The real fault is not really with him, but his army's approach to the occupation.

....is the same as this....

Otter: The issue here is not whether we broke a few rules, or took a few liberties with our female party guests; we did. (winks) But you can't hold a whole fraternity responsible for the behavior of a few sick, perverted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole fraternity system? And if the whole fraternity system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? (the other Deltas cheer; Otter addresses the Student Council President directly) I put it to you, Greg! Isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? (the Deltas cheer again) Well, you can do what you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you bad-mouth the United States of America! Gentlemen!
(Otter packs his briefcase and leaves the room; the other Deltas follow, humming "The Star-Spangled Banner")

And moving on to this:

Or have i missed all those suicide bombings at Iraqi hospitals..

While I don't know of any suicide bombings at Iraqi hospitals, there have been reports of terrorists using hospitals to ambush American/Shiite targets. So, what do you do in these cases? Shoot back?

 

[Jawz II]

I can't help feeling somewhat sorry for the guy, even though he made an exceedingly stupid choice. In theory I can agree with concept of a mercy killing, but anybody wearing SSgt stripes should be smart enough to know that if you actually do it, you're going to be crucified no matter what the circumstances.

you call 3 years for murder being crucified?

would you feel like that, if an arab shot and killed an american "by misstake" and only got 3 years?

btw its a hypothetical question, i now the insurgents dont have rules or laws or COs, or an army or much of anything else for that matter

 

[nonconformist]

Don't Ammerican soldiers carry basic medical kits with painkillers?

 

[neviden]

While I don't know of any suicide bombings at Iraqi hospitals, there have been reports of terrorists using hospitals to ambush American/Shiite targets. So, what do you do in these cases? Shoot back?

There have been reports of "terrorists" hiding everywhere. If you were a rebel and some big army with lots of guns and bombs tried to hunt down and kill you my first thought would not be 'hey, this is hospital.. hmm.. i know.. i will run in the desert so invaders will not acuse me of breaking some rules after they kill me'. And since US will storm the hospital if necesary, there is no point in hidding right there.. to them it's just a building..

The point about suicide bombings was: "terrorists" do not target hospitals or doctors or people like that. They are not stupid. "terrorists" target "colaborators" and "invaders".. oh and ocasional westerner that is stupid enough to be there (if they didn't US army would just pay guys from other countries to do their work and they would be perfectly safe)

 

[BasketCase]

On paragraph #1: The thing with the sightings of muzzle flashes from hospital windows was what clinched it.

On paragraph #2: Terrorists have targeted all of the above (I'm not talking Iraq specifically here--no specific incidents that I know of where terrorists in Iraq targeted a hospital or a doctor). Doctors are targeted by terrorists if they're trying to help the "wrong" people (say, trying to rescue Jews injured by a car bomb). Civilians delivering emergency food get shot at if they try to deliver the food to the "wrong" side (which is what happened in Somalia).

 

[neviden]

What was the point in saying "muzzle flashes from hospital windows" were seen? I have no problem in beliving that. That would be the same as saying snipers were seen at mosques. Just nice building from witch to shoot. It wouldn't be hard for someone to sneak into it and shoot at "ocupiers" when they didn't expect it. It's not like US will NOT bomb that building then..

When did we start talking about Somalia? What has Somalia to do with Iraq?.. Somalia was in civil war with warlords battling eachother, while in Iraq everybody is either neutral or against ocupation. There is no civil war (yet) in Iraq. People in Iraq do not kill each other. Iraqis are killed because they are "colaborators" or just at the wrong place at the wrong time.. and of corse by Americans..

 

[BasketCase]

A person trying to repair the local water treatment plant so EVERYBODY in town will have clean water to drink is NOT a collaborator, and there is NEVER any justification for cutting his head off with the small blade of a Swiss Army knife.

Edit: and, your assessment of local poll results in Iraq is wrong. Sunnis are against the occupation (because they want their power back), Shiites favor the occupation (because no occupation = they lose their shot at gaining power). However some Shiites do want us to leave because they want to run the show themselves and don't care how sloppy they run it. As Orwell put it: power is not a means, it is an end.

Edit of the edit: oh yeah, and Iraqis DO kill Iraqis. Sunnis kill Shiites, and Shiites kill Sunnis is basically how it goes. Has been that way for 20 years.

 

[Shaihulud]

Don't Ammerican soldiers carry basic medical kits with painkillers?

Maybe they shoul've given the kid an overdose of morphine instead of shooting him. No wait! Then that may be accused of distributing drugs to a minor ! It seems like it really was an honest mistake!

 

[BasketCase]

How many of you out there have done something that seemed like a good idea at the time? Then, when the smoke cleared and you had 20/20 hindsight, you found yourself wondering how you could be so stupid?

Count me in.

 

[Bronx Warlord]

Would it of been diffrent if he let the poor kid bleed out right there on the pavement?

It's a catch 22, and chances are he put the kid out of his misery sure, at the same time he committed murder, and should be charged with such.

 

[neviden]

Who is a colaborator is in the eye of beholder.. water is important. Everybody needs it.. including US army.. so is oil.. so is everything else.. I do not agre with atacks on local water treatment plant, but I do see the reason why they are atacked.. US will spend manpower and money to secure all important buildings and personnel. That means more targets for insurgents. If US will not able to spend that much money/manpower it will have to abandon Iraq..

Situation is like this:
- Kurds. Happy. They are not occupied. They are independent.
- Shiites. Neutral. Occupied. They are waiting for elections and hoping things will get better.
- Sunnis. Not happy. Occupied. They are kicking and screaming.
Most of the time bombs target Americans and colaborators, not each other..

With every day and every incident like that, less people are neutral and more people are angry. Why do you think "Iraqi goverment forces" do not want to fight? Why do you think there are more and more dead Americans all the time? Situation will only get worse...