US Supreme Court deals 2 victories for anti-death penalty proponents

ApocalypseKurtz

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The US Supreme Court recently declared two major death penalty decisions, both victories for anti-death penalty proponents. First, in a 6-3 decision it said that ******** people cannot be given the death penalty. Second, in a 7-2 decision they said that judges cannot give the death penalty; it must be juries. I am quite shocked that the court made both of these decisions, given it's generally conservative makeup, but nonetheless I applaud both rulings. The first ruling was made because sentencing a ******** person to death was interpreted as being "cruel and unusual" and therefore in violation of the 8th Amendment. The second decision makes sense because judges wouold have too much discretion if they themselves alone could decide whether or not someone gets put to death; his or her personal biases would unfortunately play a part in the decision. Of course, chief justice Rehnquist was the only member to dissent from BOTH decisions, but that is expected from him.

2 more small steps toward abolishing the death penalty!
 
We're just asking for a fight tonight aren't we? First religion... Then the death penalty... I even noticed another Middle East thread. I'm staying out of THIS argument. :)
 
These are not anti-Death Penalty cases.... they are simply cases of Constitutional interpretation, which is the job of the Supreme Court. No judgement on the DP was made in these 2 cases you cite. In no way is the DP even suspended in the US.

Now a defendant wishing to escape responsibility for their crimes must also prove they are ******** (to a court's satisfaction) in order to avoid the DP. And the other ruling seems to ensure a jury vote on the DP, instead of a ruling from the bench.

:)
 
Originally posted by ApocalypseKurtz
The US Supreme Court recently declared two major death penalty decisions, both victories for anti-death penalty proponents. First, in a 6-3 decision it said that ******** people cannot be given the death penalty. Second, in a 7-2 decision they said that judges cannot give the death penalty; it must be juries. I am quite shocked that the court made both of these decisions, given it's generally conservative makeup, but nonetheless I applaud both rulings. The first ruling was made because sentencing a ******** person to death was interpreted as being "cruel and unusual" and therefore in violation of the 8th Amendment. The second decision makes sense because judges wouold have too much discretion if they themselves alone could decide whether or not someone gets put to death; his or her personal biases would unfortunately play a part in the decision. Of course, chief justice Rehnquist was the only member to dissent from BOTH decisions, but that is expected from him.

2 more small steps toward abolishing the death penalty!


I'm pro-death penalty, but I'm glad for both decisions. The first, for obvious reasons, and the second because it keeps liberals from electing anti-death penalty judges and circumventing the jury's decision. :cooool: ;)
 
Originally posted by starlifter
These are not anti-Death Penalty cases.... they are simply cases of Constitutional interpretation, which is the job of the Supreme Court. No judgement on the DP was made in these 2 cases you cite.
He never called them anti-death penalty cases, he said that they were victories for anti-death proponents. Why are they victories for anti-death penatly proponents? Because these rulings made it just that much harder to give out a death penalty.
 
Why are they victories for anti-death penatly proponents? Because these rulings made it just that much harder to give out a death penalty,

On the face of it (without hearing the presentation or reading all the leagal exhibits), I actually agree in principle with both rulings, and think it will make for a stronger use of the Death Penalty.

If someone is truly profoundly ********, then execution is IMHO pointless, just as it is for a truly insane person. Neither are turly capable of understanding their actions, yet they are people, so the DP should be spared.

In the second case, I also agree that the DP should not be meted out by one judge acting alone. Not in today's society, with instant access and transprtation. It is not the wild west anymore, and Circuit Judges in Territories are no longer necessary because State and Federal jurisdiction extends throughout the CONUS (military term for CONtinetnal US).

But my reason for agreeing with the second ruling is not the same as cited. I think one person should not bear the reponsibility of a state-mandated execution alone. It should be shared and debated among several citizens, like a jury, to help ensure a full consideration for such an irreversible punishment.

The other point is a technical one. The single jusdge thing is a red herring, because a DP is always subject to an automatic appeal, which means the one judge is not actually acting alone. But I stilll don't mind having it in the hands of a competant jury.

I am an advocate of the DP, for reasons stated last fall. Moreover, I am an advocate of greatly extending the DP, and applying it to almost all killers, serial killers, traitors to America, terrorists, multiple violent offenders (serial rapists, child molesters, drug distributers, etc.). Our prisons could and should be reduced to containing almost no violent criminals, and instead devoted to CEOs, "regular" nonviolent offenders, white collar criminals, etc. Violent criinals should not be given a lifetime of free medical, dental, recreational, dining, etc. benefits. Most criminals in America live better than 70% of the people in the world. Further, criminals get better health care than many WW II veterans and their surviving spouses.

My own opinion, in summary: The DP needs to be applied vigorously, and with emphasis to the defendant's Constitutional right to a fair and speedy trial (not the usual 8 to 20 year delay, but more like 2 or 3), and the prisons cleaned out of violent criminals. This does not mean execute all of them... it means reform those that can be reformed, and release them... any sort of subsequent felony conviction would result in a mandatory and speedy execution, not return to a life in prison at taxpayer expense. Some criminals will, due to circumstances, be kept in a tiny handful of prisons... but the vast majority of prisons will have bedspace available as time goes by. ;)



:)
 
I agree with a lot of what you say Starlifter, but because I view that as never going to happen in our society, I am against the DP. Purely on practical grounds. I think you system has merits and would work, but our current DP system is not working and is not deterring crime IMHO. Therefore, getting rid of it will save us a few headaches in terms of expense and all the consternation about the issue at home and abroad.

That's the short version of my thoughts on it, for the long version there is a DP thread buried around here someplace.
 
I would just like to add that "cruel and unusual" is one of my pet names for my wife.
Oh, and that I am largely pro-death penalty.
 
Didn't our dufus of a President take the oposite position on this case? Isn't this the same case that Dumb-booya refused to give in on as Governor of Texas?

What a fool. Can't be seen as soft on executin' them thar ******** folk, now can he?
 
Originally posted by plomeros
What are the benefits of having a death penalty?

Makes those without a complete ability for reason actually feel safer. :lol:

I know, I know, but they actually believe it.
 
Look for the new popular defense to hit court rooms soon "I kilt dem buh I am wetaded"

:rolleyes:

Whats next, sparing dogs that maul people because they have an iq less than 75? And if you don't like my analogy, explain to me how it's different. Dogs don't understand what law is either, yet 1000s are put down every year because of vicious behavior. Yes, I understand that we're talking dogs and people, but as far as danger to society we're talking about the same thing.

A ******** murderer is every bit as dangerous to society as a normal one. And they should be treated the same. Victory my ass.
 
Better to just kill them all and let God sort them out, huh? Better to execute a few retards than to have to put up with a killer living the good life on Death Row.

That's kind of what I meant about that certain lack of reason.....
 
:D Thank you, VoodooAce

I'm a bit curious. By all statistics, the DP does not deterr criminals. The countries with the DP have higher crime rates then the states without.

So once again, what is the point? Revenge? It's cheaper then keeping someone alive in prison?
 
Acutally, it isn't even cheaper to kill them.

An execution costs more than it would to keep a prisoner alive for something like 70 years.
 
It's just opening another door for criminals to exploit. People have conned the courts in the past to get off with insanity pleas, and now they have another con to use.

A danger to society is a danger to society.

I'm just arguing here for the sake of equality. People want to be treated equally? Well then treat them equally in all areas.

What is the point? What isn't the point? What possible use can a ******** murderer be to society?
 
Originally posted by Becka
I'm pro-death penalty, but I'm glad for both decisions. The first, for obvious reasons, and the second because it keeps liberals from electing anti-death penalty judges and circumventing the jury's decision. :cooool: ;)

Unless I'm missing something, I would think the second ruling would have the opposite effect. It would prevent pro-death penalty judges from overturning a jury's decision to not give the death penalty. I didn't hear anything in the ruling about preventing a judge from overturning a death sentence.
 
Originally posted by Dralix


Unless I'm missing something, I would think the second ruling would have the opposite effect. It would prevent pro-death penalty judges from overturning a jury's decision to not give the death penalty. I didn't hear anything in the ruling about preventing a judge from overturning a death sentence.

What? There's no such thing as a anti-DP judge? :p

from ApocalypseKurtz original post-

Second, in a 7-2 decision they said that judges cannot give the death penalty; it must be juries.

I didn't say anything about overturning a death sentence.

But my wording was faulty. I shoiuld've said "Circumventing a jury's potential decision." Sorry. :blush:

I suppose if a group of people (that is, the jury) don't give a convictd offender the death penalty, it would be for a good reason.
 
I'm pro-death penalty in theory, but anti-death penalty in practice. I live in one of the two states that has suspended implementation of the death penalty because it has been proven that the judicial system is corrupt and has sent innocent people to death row. It's an ugly situation. When even a thoroughly corrupt governor who really doesn't give a damn about anyone but himself can see the system is flawed, that's an eye-opener for me. While I am basically in favor of executing the criminals who deserve it, I cannot reconcile that with the fear of executing the innocent. The benefits are outweighed by the risks.
 
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