Using the Culture Resources

[Yid]

Hi,

Now that Cultures are Resources, we are able to use those resources, right?

How do you think about this idea: Let's use them as a construction resource for buildings! If it is possible to say "builds with +50% with stone", it should be possible to say "builds with +10% with Goth".

Here are some ideas. We might give a "+10% :hammers construction bonus" to these combinations:
- Brewery: German.
- Gem Cutter and/or Jeweller: Goth. (Reminder: Goth WW requires Gems)
- Horse Trainer and/or Stable: any Culture featuring a Mounted Unique Unit
- Hellenic Temple: Greek and/or Roman
- Florist/various flowers: Dutch
- Wheelright: Sumerian


This would feature the attitude and will of a culture to do certain things. It might also point the AI into a useful direction.

The list above is just a start, and it is just a proposal. I'm interested in your comments.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Not a bad idea Yid. I am surprised I did not think of it before. I could see things like Dutch making Tulip Farms or Windmills faster. There is a lot to consider, especially since they are not all in yet and may have their requirements changed.

And not just faster building. As resources there are tons of stuff you could add them to. Health, science, happiness, culture. You name it! Anything another resource can do these culture resources could do. Including have stats of their own.

The question is what should they do?

 

[Acularius]

My SVN might be too old, but would it be possible to allow the culture as a national building instead of a world building, so other civs may build the same culture?

Limit of one per nation, if they can do it, but allow multiple civs to have similar culture?

 

[Yid]

Hydro: should I try to create a more comprehensive list? I would volunteer to select a building with a 10% bonus (or something) for each culture, as a starting point.

 

[Praetyre]

I think that could be done quite easily; Yid just needs permission to edit the Culture Chart in Hydro's signature and a new field for such bonuses could be added.

 

[Hydromancerx]

My SVN might be too old, but would it be possible to allow the culture as a national building instead of a world building, so other civs may build the same culture?

Limit of one per nation, if they can do it, but allow multiple civs to have similar culture?

It would be easy to change. Just change <iMaxGlobalInstances> from 1 to -1 and then change <iMaxPlayerInstances> from -1 to 1.

However since there are many more and still going to be more of these wonders I thought it would be more fitting if they were great wonders and not national wonders to balance things out.

Also limiting them to a world wonder means they are that much more valuable and harder to get.

Hydro: should I try to create a more comprehensive list? I would volunteer to select a building with a 10% bonus (or something) for each culture, as a starting point.

That's what this forum is for. Post whatever ideas you think. Note these are still brainstorming ideas and will not necessarily mean that they will be put in, but it will help get everyone's brains thinking for when or if we do implement such a feature.

I think that could be done quite easily; Yid just needs permission to edit the Culture Chart in Hydro's signature and a new field for such bonuses could be added.

He could easily just copy and paste the list from there or from the wonder civ thread. If they are implemented I could add them to the chart in my signature. But I would rather not give permission to anyone for that google doc since it also has the tech tree.

 

[Yid]

I think that could be done quite easily; Yid just needs permission to edit the Culture Chart in Hydro's signature and a new field for such bonuses could be added.

I can only see links to the civics, the tech tree and C2C Master Thread in Hydro's sig. Am I missing something?

 

[Hydromancerx]

I can only see links to the civics, the tech tree and C2C Master Thread in Hydro's sig. Am I missing something?

Its the 2nd tab on the tech tree link.

 

[Yid]

Okay, here is my first draft. I tried to give bonusses for prerequisitive Resource Improvements (like Horse -> Horse Trainer) if I had no better idea. I also tried to distibute typical housings if possible. I also tried not to give the same building to two different cultures in the same cultural groups.

My proposal is to give a flat "double production speed with X" as a starting point, and tone up or down if necessary later.

Comments are welcome.

African Cultures:

Spoiler :

Berber - Indigo Farm, Sand Pit
Carthaginian - Shipyard, Mud huts
Malinese- Tannery
Masai - Cow Farm
Nubian - Trade Post
Ethiopian - Coffee Plantage (I herewith vote for coffee as needed resource: Etiopia is the home of the coffee plant!)
Egyptian - Irrigation Canal
Swahili - Fishermans Hut, Stone huts
Zulu - Mask Carver
Moraccan - Condonomiums

American Cultures:

Spoiler :

Aztec - Sacrificial Altar
Cheyenne - Horse Trainer
Jivaro - Hovels
Klamath - Slave Market
Mapuche - Granary
Olmec - Totem Pole
Seminole - Fishmonger
Toltec - Stone Quarry
Zapotec - Trading Post
Cherokee - Fletchers Hut
Comanche - Stable
Tupi - Tobacco Plantation
Apache - Bead Maker, Corn Farm
Carib - Spear Fishermans Hut
Cree - Knowledge Inheritance
Huron - Trading Post
Incan - (something with Lamas)
Inuit - Igloo
Iroquois - Dancing Hut, Wood Huts
Mayan - Stargazers Hut
Navajo - Chief Hut
Nootka - Warrior Hut
Sioux - Animal Hide Tents
American - Airport, Sherrifs Office
Brazil - Coffee Plantage
Canada - Sawmill, Appartements
Mexican - Knights Stable
Venezuelan - Oil Derrick/Oil Plant

Asian Cultures:

Spoiler :

Chinese - Silk Farm, High-Tech Condos
Indian - Hinduistic Temple, Slums, Estates
Korean - Rice Paddy
Mongolian - Horse Trainer, Tengrii Horse Trainer
Siamese - Elephant Trainer
Ceylonese - Tea Plantation
Chola - Sculptors Workshop
Khmer - Irrigation Channel
Tibetan - Buddistic Monastry
Uighur - Camel Trainer
Vietnamese - Bicicle Shop
Japanese - Shinto Monastry, Condos.
Indonesian - Canoe Builder

European Cultures:

Spoiler :

Celtic - Some Druidic Site
Goth - Gem Cutter
Greek - University, Domusses
Hun - Horse Trainer, Long House
Minoan - Sculpture Maker
Roman - Crucification Crosses, Olive Press
Viking - Apiary, Sail Weaver, Some Asrathu Building
English - Minor League Stadium, Major League Stadium, Apple Plantation
French - Art Gallery, Manors
Holy Roman - Courthouse, District Courthouse
Swiss - Bank, Condos.
Austrian - Hotel
Dutch - Windmill, Tulip Plantation
German - Brewery
Hungarian - Shacks
Polish - Observatory
Portuguese - Commercial Port, Estates
Russian - Distillery, Estates
Spanish - Christian Monastry, Appartments

Middle Eastern Cultures:

Spoiler :

Assyrian - Mule Trainer, Stone Huts
Babylonian - Stargazers Hut
Hittite - Chariot Builder
Israeli - Jewish Temple, Orange Plantation.
Persian - Islamic Monastry, Condos.
Phoenican - Habour
Sumerian - Wheelright, Mud Huts
Turkmen - Trading Post
Arabian - Library, High-Tech Condos.
Armenian - Some Christian Building
Byzantine - Falconeer
Ottoman - Canon Forge

Oceanian Cultures:

Spoiler :

Aborigine - Music Hut, Grass Huts
Maori - Imu, Music Hut
Polynesian - Canoe Builder
Australian - Coal Plant

 

[Koshling]

Okay, here is my first draft. I tried to give bonusses for prerequisitive Resource Improvements (like Horse -> Horse Trainer) if I had no better idea. I also tried to distibute typical housings if possible. I also tried not to give the same building to two different cultures in the same cultural groups.

My proposal is to give a flat "double production speed with X" as a starting point, and tone up or down if necessary later.

Comments are welcome.

African Cultures:

Spoiler :

Berber - Indigo Farm, Sand Pit
Carthaginian - Shipyard, Mud huts
Malinese- Tannery
Masai - Cow Farm
Nubian - Trade Post
Ethiopian - Coffee Plantage (I herewith vote for coffee as needed resource: Etiopia is the home of the coffee plant!)
Egyptian - Irrigation Canal
Swahili - Fishermans Hut, Stone huts
Zulu - Mask Carver
Moraccan - Condonomiums

American Cultures:

Spoiler :

Aztec - Sacrificial Altar
Cheyenne - Horse Trainer
Jivaro - Hovels
Klamath - Slave Market
Mapuche - Granary
Olmec - Totem Pole
Seminole - Fishmonger
Toltec - Stone Quarry
Zapotec - Trading Post
Cherokee - Fletchers Hut
Comanche - Stable
Tupi - Tobacco Plantation
Apache - Bead Maker, Corn Farm
Carib - Spear Fishermans Hut
Cree - Knowledge Inheritance
Huron - Trading Post
Incan - (something with Lamas)
Inuit - Igloo
Iroquois - Dancing Hut, Wood Huts
Mayan - Stargazers Hut
Navajo - Chief Hut
Nootka - Warrior Hut
Sioux - Animal Hide Tents
American - Airport, Sherrifs Office
Brazil - Coffee Plantage
Canada - Sawmill, Appartements
Mexican - Knights Stable
Venezuelan - Oil Derrick/Oil Plant

Asian Cultures:

Spoiler :

Chinese - Silk Farm, High-Tech Condos
Indian - Hinduistic Temple, Slums, Estates
Korean - Rice Paddy
Mongolian - Horse Trainer, Tengrii Horse Trainer
Siamese - Elephant Trainer
Ceylonese - Tea Plantation
Chola - Sculptors Workshop
Khmer - Irrigation Channel
Tibetan - Buddistic Monastry
Uighur - Camel Trainer
Vietnamese - Bicicle Shop
Japanese - Shinto Monastry, Condos.
Indonesian - Canoe Builder

European Cultures:

Spoiler :

Celtic - Some Druidic Site
Goth - Gem Cutter
Greek - University, Domusses
Hun - Horse Trainer, Long House
Minoan - Sculpture Maker
Roman - Crucification Crosses, Olive Press
Viking - Apiary, Sail Weaver, Some Asrathu Building
English - Minor League Stadium, Major League Stadium, Apple Plantation
French - Art Gallery, Manors
Holy Roman - Courthouse, District Courthouse
Swiss - Bank, Condos.
Austrian - Hotel
Dutch - Windmill, Tulip Plantation
German - Brewery
Hungarian - Shacks
Polish - Observatory
Portuguese - Commercial Port, Estates
Russian - Distillery, Estates
Spanish - Christian Monastry, Appartments

Middle Eastern Cultures:

Spoiler :

Assyrian - Mule Trainer, Stone Huts
Babylonian - Stargazers Hut
Hittite - Chariot Builder
Israeli - Jewish Temple, Orange Plantation.
Persian - Islamic Monastry, Condos.
Phoenican - Habour
Sumerian - Wheelright, Mud Huts
Turkmen - Trading Post
Arabian - Library, High-Tech Condos.
Armenian - Some Christian Building
Byzantine - Falconeer
Ottoman - Canon Forge

Oceanian Cultures:

Spoiler :

Aborigine - Music Hut, Grass Huts
Maori - Imu, Music Hut
Polynesian - Canoe Builder
Australian - Coal Plant

One issue with this scheme (not the principal, but something to think about in the specific), is that cultures, apart from a small number, tend to be acquired later in the game through trade, expansion, etc.. This means there is a significant discrepency in effective value between cultures whose bonuses apply to early game entities (like mud huts and so on), vs. those that remain relevant much longer by applying to things like coal plants and so on.

I realise that historically some cultures arose early, and some late. However in a blank-slate C2C game the timing of when various cultrures arise (or their owners become significant powers) is highly variable. Thus I think it would be desirable if each culture had bonuses that applied (in the case of buildings, but similarly units, etc.) to something in each era (or at least each couple of eras).

 

[Yid]

.. This means there is a significant discrepency in effective value between cultures whose bonuses apply to early game entities (like mud huts and so on), vs. those that remain relevant much longer by applying to things like coal plants and so on.

So you are saying: no coal plants, or any of the plantation type buildings, because these buildings don´t expire?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

This seems like the right place to post this. I have been thinking about cultural trade goods since RoM. This may now be the time to implement it. Basically since a culture has had a famous trade good in history why shouldn't it in C2C. I have not gone into much detail but here are my initial thoughts.

Potters

• Ming Vases - require Chinese Culture, Tech glassware, 5 potteries, provides 3 Ming Vases +1 happy
• Greek black and red ware require Greek Culture, tech glassware, 4 potteries, provides 2 Greek ware +1 happy
• Porcelain - requires English Culture, tech industralisation, 10 potteries, provides 5
• Samian ware - requires Roman Culture, tech pottery, 5 potteries, provides 4, +1 health

Sculpture

• Caspian ivory carvers - Middle Eastern, Bone carving, 2 bone carvers, provides 2 ivory statuets
• Nok terracotta statues - African Culture, Potetry and Sculpture, 2 poters and 2 sculpters, provides 2 teracotta statuets

Glassware

• Roman Glass
• Venetian Glass
• Czech Lead crystal glass

 

[Koshling]

So you are saying: no coal plants, or any of the plantation type buildings, because these buildings don´t expire?

No. I'm simply pointing out that a bonus to building stone huts (or similar) is not goign to help anyone very much when they acquire the culture concerned somewhere past the ancient era (and I guess that the bonus to/from coal plants doesn't help anyone much before industrial). Because cultures can arise/become dominant at far different to historical times in C2C it would be nice if they were more balanced across eras, hence my suggestion that each culture gives bonuses to (or to the building of, or whatever the mechanism) thinsg that are relevant in different eras (so if a culture bonuses stone huts in some way, it might also bonus (say) the sculpters workshop, and some modern era thing too [modern art gallery?? dunno what - just an example]. That way the culture remains relevant in all eras.

Obviously the benefits outside of the historical era for any given culture has to be more 'made up' but it can be in keepign with the same feel in some way. Ideally this would also apply to heroes (each culture would have a hero per every couple of eras).

 

[Hydromancerx]

Nubian - Trade Post
Ethiopian - Coffee Plantage (I herewith vote for coffee as needed resource: Etiopia is the home of the coffee plant!)

Ethiopia did have coffee but then I gave it to Nubia and replace them with Sulphur. If I give back Ethiopia coffee what resource should Nubia require?

Olmec - Totem Pole

Actually I am thinking that Stele might be better since Olmec as far as I know did not have totem poles.

 

[Iceciro]

Question; with the cultures-as-wonders-that-produce-trade-goods, will Industrious civs have an advantage (as they do with most wonders) or not?

 

[Flinx]

Culture wonders currently provide 1 culture resource.
There's no point i can see why i should trade my only resource or if the AI should trade it's single resource.
Maybe it would be a good idea to set culture wonders to provide a certain number of said culture, al least more than one. Personally i'd tend to 4 to 6.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Culture wonders currently provide 1 culture resource.
There's no point i can see why i should trade my only resource or if the AI should trade it's single resource.
Maybe it would be a good idea to set culture wonders to provide a certain number of said culture, al least more than one. Personally i'd tend to 4 to 6.

It has been brought up before that secondary buildings would act like monasteries and allow for more culture to be built. However how exactly this would be accomplished is still under debate. (see the wonder civ topic)

 

[Yid]

... hence my suggestion that each culture gives bonuses to (...) things that are relevant in different eras (so if a culture bonuses stone huts in some way, it might also bonus (say) the sculpters workshop, and some modern era thing too [modern art gallery?? dunno what - just an example]. That way the culture remains relevant in all eras.

Okay, so we might give a bonus to different buildings. Maybe we could also discuss what makes up a culture, such as food, typical housing, a special building (which overlaps with the original UB in BTS somehow). Would it be a good idea to select one building out of categories like that, and try to take one building in several eras? I make an example of the culture that I know best:

Germany:
typical food: - potatoe (Ancient ?) (introduced by Frederick in the 18h century)
typical housing: Stand Alone Houses (Industrial)
typical building: Brewery (medieval)

A question is what to do with future eras, because I cannot look into the future ...

 

[Hydromancerx]

I was actually thinking of making some modern restaurants such as "Chinese Restaurant" or "Mexican Restaurant" or "Italian Restaurant" which required the various culture resources and appeared around say Globalization tech. Note I would not make one for every type of culture just like the main one.

Germany:
typical food: - potatoe (Ancient ?) (introduced by Frederick in the 18h century)
typical housing: Stand Alone Houses (Industrial)
typical building: Brewery (medieval)

For German I would have to say the "Butchery" for the sausages or even "Cabbage Farms" for Sauerkraut.

 

[Yid]

I was actually thinking of making some modern restaurants such as "Chinese Restaurant" or "Mexican Restaurant" or "Italian Restaurant" which required the various culture resources and appeared around say Globalization tech. Note I would not make one for every type of culture just like the main one.

Possibilities, Possibilities! These special Restaurants could also get boni from other resources: say Peperoni and Tequila for Mexican Restaurants.

For German I would have to say the "Butchery" for the sausages or even "Cabbage Farms" for Sauerkraut.

I can live with both. Cabbage Farms will be less common elsewhere, so that might be the best choice.