V24 initial observations

[Koshling]

I spent yesterday downloading and playing V24 - this is the first time I have actually got to PLAY the game for about 2 months! (load it every day, but usually just to work on).

Two things struck me after oplaying for seevral hours (I'm between tribalism and sedentary lifestyle):

1) Volcanos are still out of control. Seems like every capital city in the game has its pet volcano! Mine erupted and destroyed a bun ch of improvemtns (annoying but fine), errupted a few more times then went into a 'calm' phase. I rebuilt the improvements so it promptly went active again. After a bit it calmed and this time a bit later went fully extinct (and I got obsidean for my pains). 5 turns later ANOTHER volcano sprang up in the same spot, wiping out the obsidean and re-destroying my improvemnts. It has errupted periodically ever since and not yet gone extinct again. The fact that every capital I can see has one means they are just too common (and also only happen next to cities which is not right). The fact that a fully extinct one errupted again a few turns later is also not right.

2) It's too easy. Something the AI is doing is seriously sub-optimal. My game is PerfectWorld on a huge map size with the default number of civs for that size. This means that civs are really quite spaced apart and no wars have taken place (just the odd scout being opportunistically bumped off). Thi measn it is not any of the known seriou AI deficiencies with combat that are the problem. Despite this, on immortal with increasing difficulty (so been diety for some time), I am miles ahead on score of the civs I can see, and more significantly am leader in GDP, production and food on the stats. I believe I am second in techs. Clearly, given the prodiction/health advantages the AI has it must have majorly screwed up to enable me to get ahead so soon. I'm not certain wht it is doing wrong yet (I have seen plenty of AI scouts and trackers so it's not that it isn't hunting for example), but it needs looking into.

 

[Daveoz]

The volcanos certainly seem like a common complaint, anything else you've noticed in v24? There is still no list of differences from v23

 

[ls612]

Hmm, I don't know what new we've added that would seriously gimp the AI. Maybe it's not using it's subdued animals correctly?

 

[Koshling]

Hmm, I don't know what new we've added that would seriously gimp the AI. Maybe it's not using it's subdued animals correctly?

I have a theory, and if I'm right it's not actually new. I think passive hunting with scouts works well, but once they get active hunters (trackers and beyond) they get 'captured' by SoD attack stacks building up and asking any unit capable of attacking to join them. These then sit around doing very little until a suitable war comes along.

So far this is only a theory, but the evidence if have from looking around the AIs in my game in debug mode is:

1) Few myth buildings or herds, which is why they are falling behind, and probably points to lack of hunting

2) Plenty of animals nearby AI civs, but no current hunting activity

3) Plenty of scouts were runnign around earlier on, which is why I think no-attack units are not being dragged in

4) Hunters sitting in attack stacks in and near AI cities

Once I can push the viewport changes (at least a reasonable initial cut) to SVN, I'll look into this in more detail, but the good news is that if I am right in my theory then it's really easy to fix (just excempt the UNITAI_HUNTER from beign drawn into attack stacks)

 

[strategyonly]

I think passive hunting with scouts works well, but once they get active hunters (trackers and beyond) they get 'captured' by SoD attack stacks building up and asking any unit capable of attacking to join them. These then sit around doing very little until a suitable war comes along.

So far this is only a theory, but the evidence if have from looking around the AIs in my game in debug mode is:

1) Few myth buildings or herds, which is why they are falling behind, and probably points to lack of hunting

2) Plenty of animals nearby AI civs, but no current hunting activity

3) Plenty of scouts were running around earlier on, which is why I think no-attack units are not being dragged in

4) Hunters sitting in attack stacks in and near AI cities

Once I can push the viewport changes (at least a reasonable initial cut) to SVN, I'll look into this in more detail, but the good news is that if I am right in my theory then it's really easy to fix (just exempt the UNITAI_HUNTER from beign drawn into attack stacks)

That hits it squarely on the head, in the game i am playing the Barb World on, the barbs are just building UP their warriors and wanderers stay in the stack also, just as you said scouts out every now and then, but NONE are leaving at all, maybe one or two for close animals but thats it.

 

[draz]

That has been my observation as well - hunter units are a huge boon early on and if the AI fails to utilize them properly, it's a serious handicap to them.

 

[GiuseppeIII]

The volcanos certainly seem like a common complaint, anything else you've noticed in v24? There is still no list of differences from v23

Yeah SO when are going to update the first page

 

[strategyonly]

Yeah SO when are going to update the first page

Whats wrong with the first page now??

 

[CIVPlayer8]

Whats wrong with the first page now??

The "Changes for v24" located on post six

 

[strategyonly]

The "Changes for v24" located on post six

OH i know that, but thats as you say, page six and not page 1

I am still sick, infact today i have been bed ridden all day, sorry everyone.

\deleted what was below here, theory didnt work again.

 

[rightfuture]

I am still sick, infact today i have been bed ridden all day, sorry everyone.

I hope you feel better soon!

 

[Xoatl_169]

Just recently started a new game on the new version of the mod. In the last game the game got so long in between turns and the file size was 10mb. I had 58 ICBMs and one turn i spent 10 minutes strategically nuking certain points but the game would stop for like 10 seconds after the nuke animation went off. On my 30ish ICBM the game crashed to desktop. Im gonna try a large map this time and 6 civs instead of the default 28 something for huge earth, maybe that would help decrease turn times. The 50,000BC start time concerns me. I was launching ICBMs at 980BC (Eternity speed, i always play on the longest game speed) on my old game. New techs are nice and all, but theres a huge 3/4 tech thick section immediately after modern era with absolutely no new buildings or units, which will get kind of annoying if I get that far. Then the tech tree all the way at the end seems pulled apart, the techs are more spaced apart and one tech in the middle of the gray techs (don't know what era that is) is purple. The little white lines that point to what certain techs lead to are kind of bugged at the end too. The lines would disappear or fragment when you scroll to one side. I can provide pictures of this stuff if necessary cause its kind of hard to explain.

Also small suggestion, is it possible to have a button or a hotkey that wakes up all of ones doomsday weapons at once? Was kinda annoying keeping track of which cities I checked had ICBMs and which didnt.

EDIT: Oh and in the new version theres a bit of lag after a unit moves.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Also small suggestion, is it possible to have a button or a hotkey that wakes up all of ones doomsday weapons at once? Was kinda annoying keeping track of which cities I checked had ICBMs and which didnt.

This would b nice for any unit type.

 

[Koshling]

Just recently started a new game on the new version of the mod. In the last game the game got so long in between turns and the file size was 10mb. I had 58 ICBMs and one turn i spent 10 minutes strategically nuking certain points but the game would stop for like 10 seconds after the nuke animation went off. On my 30ish ICBM the game crashed to desktop. Im gonna try a large map this time and 6 civs instead of the default 28 something for huge earth, maybe that would help decrease turn times. The 50,000BC start time concerns me. I was launching ICBMs at 980BC (Eternity speed, i always play on the longest game speed) on my old game. New techs are nice and all, but theres a huge 3/4 tech thick section immediately after modern era with absolutely no new buildings or units, which will get kind of annoying if I get that far. Then the tech tree all the way at the end seems pulled apart, the techs are more spaced apart and one tech in the middle of the gray techs (don't know what era that is) is purple. The little white lines that point to what certain techs lead to are kind of bugged at the end too. The lines would disappear or fragment when you scroll to one side. I can provide pictures of this stuff if necessary cause its kind of hard to explain.

Also small suggestion, is it possible to have a button or a hotkey that wakes up all of ones doomsday weapons at once? Was kinda annoying keeping track of which cities I checked had ICBMs and which didnt.

EDIT: Oh and in the new version theres a bit of lag after a unit moves.

As an FYI, if you're using doomsday weapons that change the pattern of land and water ( I think fusion weapons will or maybenthe one after that?) the game has to recalculate practically everything when landmasses get joined (or split). Some cases of it are also known to result in a crash, which is not trivial to fix, and consequently hasn't been yet. 'ordinary' nukes that just destroy unit stacks ( or even cities) should not have these problems, but the level beyond those are problematic.

If you're suffering long turn times without involving terrain-modifying weapons post a save game and I'll take a look at why it's happening.

 

[Xoatl_169]

As an FYI, if you're using doomsday weapons that change the pattern of land and water ( I think fusion weapons will or maybenthe one after that?) the game has to recalculate practically everything when landmasses get joined (or split). Some cases of it are also known to result in a crash, which is not trivial to fix, and consequently hasn't been yet. 'ordinary' nukes that just destroy unit stacks ( or even cities) should not have these problems, but the level beyond those are problematic.

If you're suffering long turn times without involving terrain-modifying weapons post a save game and I'll take a look at why it's happening.

It was regular ICBMs, i dunno if the fallout has anything to do with it. And heres the last save I took for the previous game. Note it was using the last version, not the one that came out yesteday. The autosaves were overwritten by now.

http://www.4shared.com/file/v7jnHtkH/Maya.html?

 

[jmmendesp]

Confirming that volcanos are too common, too active, and too close to capitals.

Love where you're going with disease, air pollution and water pollution. More city properties, like electricity as people have suggested, would be even better to have down the road.

What are the main goals at the moment? Viewports/Multi-maps?

 

[strategyonly]

Confirming that volcanos are too common, too active, and too close to capitals.

Love where you're going with disease, air pollution and water pollution. More city properties, like electricity as people have suggested, would be even better to have down the road.

What are the main goals at the moment? Viewports/Multi-maps?

See i am not understanding this, i reduced the volcanoes by 1/2 of what it used to be, are by chance any of these map you'll are playing a GEM map?

 

[jmmendesp]

See i am not understanding this, i reduced the volcanoes by 1/2 of what it used to be, are by chance any of these map you'll are playing a GEM map?

Hmm, not really sure what a GEM map would be, as I don't see it in the map list. I play on C2C_PerfectWorld2f.

Also, as has been said before, the 50000 BC start needs to be rethought. I reached Ancient Era in 7000 BC .

 

[P A Y N E]

So in summary the main goals are probably gonna be Viewports, Multi-Maps and fixing these weird volcano and AI artifacts. Personally, I am anticipating Viewports are gonna improve the mid to late game experience.

 

[Xoatl_169]

So in summary the main goals are probably gonna be Viewports, Multi-Maps and fixing these weird volcano and AI artifacts. Personally, I am anticipating Viewports are gonna improve the mid to late game experience.

What are viewports?

And to the other guy, GEM is giant earth map i think.