Variant Brain Storming Thread

[Sir Bugsy]

Disclaimer: This is not a game thread. Any ideas developed in this thread can be used by anyone.

The number succession games using challenging, never been done before variants is officially at zero. Even the world famous LK series has been suspended due to the lack of an interesting, challenging variant. Handy continues to be increasingly grumpy on larger maps with greater and greater difficulty. I can't wait until we figure out how to play AWS on a huge map

However, we need to come up with new ideas. We are already losing players in the SG world because most games are a replay of one variant or another. For new players these are wonderful. However, I think there are a number of us that are bored.

So this is a brain stroming thread. The only ground rule is that there can be no public criticism of any idea. If you critize an idea you will become SG pariah.

Hopefully we can generate some unique ideas for some future SGs. Maybe even get the LK series restarted.

I can't start because I don't have any ideas at the moment.

 

[LKendter]

Maybe even get the LK series restarted.

Don't hold your breath. I am enjoy having 1 A&AP, 4 A&AR, and 1 WaS game active for human play.


As for variant ideas, I had one other wacko one:
AW + 100K. It might require some restrictions for forced culture building. Maybe each new city gets a temple first. Without this, it could just become a starand AW game. The reason the AW + 20K culture was tough was the conflicting goals for the two objectives. 20K requires dedicating to much of the early resources toward culture, not expansion.

 

[gmaharriet]

Maybe it's out of place for me to comment here, because I've never played an SG, but I do read them. Besides the interest in aspects of learning and the variants, one of the most interesting parts of them (for me anyway) is getting to know the players. I know a lot of you FAR better than you know me, because your thoughts, personality and humor come out in the games, and I find that interesting indeed.

How about trying some "training day" games at regent or monarch level? You might bring in a lot of new people who you might enjoy getting to know, but who aren't yet capable of playing at Emperor and above where most games are currently played.

I remember you, Sir Bugsy, and GenghisKhan in GK01 training Bede, Mistfit, Scoutsout and several others who have gone on to be very good players and the staples of this forum, but they were all trying to learn Monarch at the time that game began. I'm sure this forum will pick up when Civ IV comes out and everyone is learning new strategies, but new people might give more variety in the meanwhile.

Just a thought....

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Thanks Harriet. No one is out of place piping up here. Actually I'm hoping a lurker or two might come up with a wild and wacky variant that has never been done.

Although I don't think Gengis and I considered GK1 a training day game (GK2 definitely was.) As a 5CC NOW we were just trying to stay alive. I see your point though. IIRC that was the first game I played with my brother the monk. Actually the first game he played period.

Scout sort of used the kind of a training game idea in his jumpmasters games, and Bede has been using it alot. I think if I were to play a training type game, it would have to be at a higher level. Something like the Deity Virgins or Sid Virgins games. Take regent players and play a deity game with them.

 

[Vol]

I doubt any of these are "new" by themselves, perhaps someone can imagine some combinations that will create emergent gameplay:

• No self science (has been popular lately, interesting when combined with others)
• Treasury limits (must never end turn with more than 300 gold)
• Capitol-attacking limits (can only attack capitols, and can never attack capitiols are both pretty interesting)
• Luxury slider minimum (must be kept at >30% or >50%)
• Settling terrain requirements (coastal cities only, can only settle on grassland, can only settle on forest or tundra, etc.)
• No optional techs (might be really hard combined with AWM)
• Worker restrictions (slaves only or native only)
• Generous (must gift all luxuries, even your last one, away, and must not avoid hooking up luxuries. Might be good with an oscillating war variant on Monarch)
• Terrain development restrictions (not as much as FRFR and FRFR Redux, but perhaps no mines, or just roads).
• Settling spacing requirement (must have at least 4 or 5 or 6 tiles between cities, might be really hard with AWR or AWM).
• Trading restrictions (can only trade when Peace Treaty is part of the deal or must include a resource, etc. Interesting when combined with others).
• Government restriction (AW combined with Republic, Democracy, Feudalism or even Despotism might be real hard even on Regent)
• Wonder owning/attacking restrictions (can't attack cities with wonders, can't build any wonders, again could be good combined with AWM).
• Building restrictions (must always build a certain building whenever you can, like a Temple, or a Marketplace)
• Tile working restrictions (must always work tiles that give the most food, or must always work tiles that give the most shields, or gold).
• Tech-owning restrictions (must always gift any techs you can to all other civs)

Surely there's a combination of some of those that makes for something interesting. Try some combos out in your head, some of them seem devilishly hard.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

That's a good list Vol. We actually played one of Handy's games the whole time in depotism. I think it was the Zulu game. I played the coastal only variant in one of the RBCiv Epics. I got my butt kicked at the end by the Germans, so that is a good variant.

 

[gmaharriet]

How about a "cheat/exploit" game? Make a list of every cheat and exploit you can think of and then require that every one of them MUST be used at some point in the game. Maybe a different cheat for each player on the roster. That will make you feel guilty and drive you all

 

[Whomp]

Bugs we are attempting a Sid virgins game right now Nero03. Please lurk(or join). Harriett want try Sid?

This is from Sirian and he always comes up with cool ideas. We just finished this variant at emperor with the quickest SG finish I've been in. I think at deity+ the culture issues would be huge. Add another variant on top and who knows.

As the lamb, you must operate from representative government. Only Republic and Democracy are allowed. Despotism is allowed, of course, until you obtain Republic tech, but never to return to it after that. Monarchy and Communism are strictly forbidden.

Workers: No slaves allowed. You may never ask for workers and you may not build any foreign workers or settlers. Captured workers must either be merged into a city of your choice or given back ASAP. They may not do any work and must be sent to the goal-city as fast as possible. If you decide to give them back you must do so as soon the Civ is willing to talk to you. You may ask for some exchange for the worker but if the AI refuses you must give them back for free. You decide at the moment you capture the worker if (and into which city) you want to merge them or if you want to return them. If none of your cities can take the worker you must return him.(This can mean very short wars).

War: Under Anarchy: no upgrading and none of your units may attack. Under Despotism: no upgrading, and you may not attack outside your cultural borders. Also, no war declarations allowed. Under Republic/Democracy, you have a free hand -- within the limits of what your people will tolerate, of course.

Cities: No razing. No abandoning (not even with Settler/Worker build). No starving. If you can arrange tiles that a city would not starve you must do so.

Science: You must be in Democracy before you learn Mil. Trad. or your first industrial tech (whichever happens first). You may later switch back to Republic.

Strategy: You may pursue any victory condition. If warmaking becomes part of your plan, by choice or through AI aggression, you will have to be very careful about holding your government together, as you may not attack during anarchy. If you do collapse, you will have to face the weariness all over again when you come out of the revolution, so be careful

 

[Vol]

Yeah, I think subconciously I have repeated a lot of RBCiv ideas.

I don't think you're going to find one single miracle variant. Its the combos. How about combining coastal-only with despotic AW? Now throw in no wonders, no optional techs, city spacing >5 tiles and and workers only allowed to build roads! Could it even be won on Chieftain? Want to prove it?

Tackling such combos will require rethinking the cookiecutter strategies and will hopefully provide a 'fresh' Civ experience.

 

[gmaharriet]

Harriett want try Sid?

Oh, sure! I could be a "bad apple" without even trying.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Tackling such combos will require rethinking the cookiecutter strategies and will hopefully provide a 'fresh' Civ experience.

This is exactly what I'm looking for. Something fresh. Something to get people (and me) interested again.

Whomp - I'm going to have a peak at Nero2.

 

[Whomp]

Oh, sure! I could be a "bad apple" without even trying.

Wimp.

OK so it's September. I think that means it's training month, right? How about a nice emperor training game? I think we can talk Bede into a little training game.

 

[Vol]

There's also the concept of having each player have different variants.

I think 5 in 1 (mystery SG with twists) - Emperor was probably one of my all time favorite SGs to read. Each player had different variants and they didn't know what each other had. Definitely different than all of the same-old SGs you see going on today.

 

[gmaharriet]

Oh, I'll bet THIS has never been tried. How about a game in the true spirit of old-fashioned chivalry? I believe you can name new units, right? Make every 2nd unit (or 3rd or 4th) a female, and they must always stay at home minding the hearth...no fighting for them, even in self-defense. The males would have to protect the females. Come up with some sort of penalty for losing a female to the enemy.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I played a game where you had to protect all the lady leaders. I think we called it the League of Ordinary Gentlemen.

How would you keep the lady units from fighting in self defense?

 

[gmaharriet]

Wimp.

OK so it's September. I think that means it's training month, right? How about a nice emperor training game? I think we can talk Bede into a little training game.

Perfect!!! I have my annual audit at the office next week, then a week off for R&R at home with absolutely no plans except to play a LOT of Civ. Gotta warn ya, though...my brain is almost totally fried right now. Please be gentle.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

There's also the concept of having each player have different variants.

I think 5 in 1 (mystery SG with twists) - Emperor was probably one of my all time favorite SGs to read. Each player had different variants and they didn't know what each other had. Definitely different than all of the same-old SGs you see going on today.

I like this idea. You would have to have a third party assign the variants at the start.

 

[gmaharriet]

How would you keep the lady units from fighting in self defense?

Maybe fortify them? Make them run away? I dunno. You wanted a challenge.

 

[Vol]

I have no doubt that some of our most devious and inventive members could not be employed to craft a set of variants for each player that would make a really interesting game.

 

[Whomp]

Perfect!!! I have my annual audit at the office next week, then a week off for R&R at home with absolutely no plans except to play a LOT of Civ. Gotta warn ya, though...my brain is almost totally fried right now. Please be gentle.

Good. I don't want to threadjack Bugs thread but pm me and I'll help you try and find players. I'll be lurking anyhow. I'm in 2 human v human demogames, 3ish PBEMs, 2 world maps, Com2's comeback, SGOTM and SID!!! Full on feast.