Various Civilization Changes Polls:

ridjack

King
Joined
Mar 12, 2017
Messages
999
One thing I can think of straight off is that I'd like them to have an alternate UA when ruins are disabled. I know a large portion of the community that's active on here disables ruins, myself included, and I feel like it's a pretty harsh nerf to the Shoshone.

Aside from that, they could probably use a small nudge toward a victory condition. I think the reason they seem boring is that they are quite possibly the most generalist civ in the current suite. I could see an argument for domination, with two UUs, a UA well suited to forward settling and extreme defensive capabilities, but they aren't particularly strong in that vein.

I've long wanted to see a civ that focuses on the recon line in such a way that they become the primary military units for that civ. I don't know anything about the Shoshone from a historical sense, but since both vanilla and VP have seen fit to make the scouts an important part of the Shoshone kit, they seem like they could well-suited for such a role.
 

SolutionIt

Warlord
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
125
Let Russia get science from purchasing tiles at a nerfed yield with no bonuses to purchasing them like those that America has for buying it. It sucks when the border growth tile doesn't pick up the optimal tile, but you also don't want to waste gold buying those tiles just to generate basically nothing trying to fix poor border growth.
 

andersw

Emperor
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Feb 11, 2008
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sweden
@pineappledan Is this a modmod or the standard VP?

Im sort of fine with Songhai but I'd rather have their river move bonus only be in own territory.
As it is now, others cant even keep up in their own lands unless they have roaded ALL their rivertiles, and if its before engineering not even that helps.
So the river bonus with amphibious is similar to survivalism 3, but its on rivers instead of roads, for free, for all units.
This is exaggerated with a strong cav UU.

Pangea type maps naturally makes the abilities stronger.
 

Rekk

Deity
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
Messages
2,008
@pineappledan Is this a modmod or the standard VP?

Im sort of fine with Songhai but I'd rather have their river move bonus only be in own territory.
As it is now, others cant even keep up in their own lands unless they have roaded ALL their rivertiles, and if its before engineering not even that helps.
So the river bonus with amphibious is similar to survivalism 3, but its on rivers instead of roads, for free, for all units.
This is exaggerated with a strong cav UU.

Pangea type maps naturally makes the abilities stronger.
These changes are already in pineappledan's tweaks modmod. He wants to find out if there's enough support to move any of them into the main VP mod.
 

InkAxis

King
Joined
Feb 24, 2020
Messages
773
I think the polls should be redone, on CFC preferably. I can't change my vote, and once I checked the results and it allowed me to vote again. At least for the ones that are near the cut off we might want to.
And what should the cut off be? I feel like for so many polls and as we don't want too many new features, it should be a super majority. We have to acknowledge the fact that polling seems to usually be biased towards adding more stuff. I guess on the other hand we could test it and discard it if it's bad. That's theoretically, practically I've never seen that happen.
 

pineappledan

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Aug 9, 2017
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Location
Alberta, Canada
I think the polls should be redone, on CFC preferably. I can't change my vote, and once I checked the results and it allowed me to vote again. At least for the ones that are near the cut off we might want to.
And what should the cut off be? I feel like for so many polls and as we don't want too many new features, it should be a super majority. We have to acknowledge the fact that polling seems to usually be biased towards adding more stuff. I guess on the other hand we could test it and discard it if it's bad. That's theoretically, practically I've never seen that happen.
If I had opened polls for each of these changes individually that would be spamming.
I'm not going to add anything unless it passes with 2:1 approval. That was always my intent.
Things have been reverted lots of times. Just recently the yields on tile claim being extended to GGeneral culture bombs was reverted. The yields to Forts were dropped from autocracy and that was reverted too.
The only 2 of these proposals that actually add anything are the America wonders and the Mongolian Ordo. everything else is just some form of numbers adjustment.
 

pineappledan

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Alberta, Canada
Update on where we stand on the polls as of Wednesday evening
Spoiler :

America change from 1 standalone wonder to 3 Venice-style ones:
20 - Yes
4 - No​

Mongol Changes, removing 1 of its 2 Tribute demand bonuses, and adding a unique GP tile to the Khan:
15 - Yes to both the UA and Khan change
3 - Yes for only the Khan Change
4 - No to both​

England White tower base UB change to Ironworks:
12 - Yes
6 - No​

Indonesia addition of stronger Monopoly bonuses, Building resource bonuses for Garden, and Mystic Blade promotion rework:
18 - Yes to all 3
3 - No to all
3 - Yes to only the Mystic Blade promotion changes
1 - Yes to the UA/UB/UResource changes only​

Maya Atlatl Strike nerf:
13 - Yes
4 - No​

Zulu change, adding stronger tributing to UA, removing free XP from Iklwa, and making the Impi's bonus vs gunpowder stay on upgrade:
13 - Yes to all
4 - Yes to removing free XP from Iklwa only
2 - Yes to making the Impi's bonus vs gunpowder stay on upgrade only
1 - No to all​

India changes, adding Barrage 1 to Naga Malla has a promotion that stays on upgrade, and taking the Flood Plains bonus off the Harrapan Reservoir:
6 - Yes to Both
6 - Yes to adding Barrage 1 to Naga Malla only
3 - No to Both​

Iroquois Changes, removing the Natural wonder combat bonus from their UA, adding production to camps to the longhouse, and adding Woodsman to Mohawk Warriors:
13 - Yes to all
4 - Yes to adding production to longhouses only
2 - No to all​

Siam changes, increasing their yields from CS to +100%, and adding the General Stacking promotion that stays on upgrade to Siam
14 - Yes to all
1 - No to all
4 - Yes to increasing UA yields only​

Swedish
Carolean changes, moving it back to Fusilier, removing its great general stacking promotion (and giving it to Siam), and increasing the AoE damage from its Grenadier promotion:
9 - Yes to all
1 - Yes to moving it back to Fusiliers
1 - Yes to removing Great General stacking
2 - Yes to buffing Grenadiers
1 - No to all​

Songhai Mandekalu Cavalry change, moving it back to knight:
12 - Yes
5 - No​

Brazilwood Camo build prerequisite change, changing it from forest/no 2 adjacent/luxury adjacent to forest/no 2 adjacent/no freshwater access
12 - Yes
8 - No​

Carthage change, allowing Heavy Assault to carry forward on Upgrade
17 - Yes
3 - No​

Korea Changes, Moving the %GP rate during GAs, moving the Science bonus during GAs to the UA, adding a bonus to GP Tiles to the Seowon, and moving the Seowon unlock back
5 - Yes to both
4 - Yes to the UA and UB bonus changes, except the tech unlock change
8 - No to both​

The only change was Indonesia. I will begin making a pull request for the changes that got at least 67% approval:
America
Mongolia
England
Indonesia
Zulu
India - Naga Malla Change only
Iroquois
Siam
Mandekalu
Carthage

India UB, Brazil, and Korea will no be implemented.
 
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