Vassals

[MikeUK]

Does anyone else find the inclusion of vassal states highly frustrating at times? I was up against Huayna Capac, Charlemagne and Alexander. Charlemagne capitulated very early to Capac so I already felt at a big disadvantage. After struggling to overcome Alexander, Capac all of a sudden declared war on me. At that point he had units way in advance of mine and so I had no chance!

I'm thinking of actually turning off vassal states because I think the computer capitulates so seasily sometimes and that just unbalances the whole game!

 

[Angst]

It is quite annoying that the AI is that likely to capitulate to each other and not to you, yes. I feel the same way.

 

[Kawalimus]

Power differential and win/loss ratio is huge in determining capitulation. So if Huayna had a lot more troops and won most the battles the opponent will capitulate really fast. I've gotten the AI to capitulate really early with these methods too. Turn them off if you hate them too much though.

Capitulated allies can be really valuable in war if you get them to do it early, before you destroy most of their infrastructure. I got the Sumerians to give up really early on in the game and they saved my ass with their navy later in the game when Alexander declared war on me, he never reached my weakest area. You just gotta make sure they can't break free from you.

They can also be useless if you do it when they have one city or so left.

 

[Steve2000]

Here's a story for you:

I was at war with Kublai Khan, and defeating him pretty badly. When he was down to just a couple of cities, rather than capitulating to me - he became a vassal of one of my good friends - Mehmed.

Apparently the result of this is that Mehmed had to automatically declare war on me!

I was definitely cursing vassals that day - but in general I like the concept.

 

[Gumbolt]

yep its a dangerous game continuing fighting a war at times if there is a stronger Ai lurking around.

I did once have a civ capitualte to me because they feared their neighbours the French. Although to be fair I did control 50%+ of the map with vassels etc.

 

[SirLamphead]

As soon as I get Praetorians I start attacking nations. Catapults are a godsend. Pretty soon I start racking up vassals. It's really important to start early so you can get the snowball effect of power. If you can reduce a civ to 4 or 5 cities then they will usually capitulate to you.

 

[Pitman]

I have noticed that a lot of civilizations capitulate really easily. Just this past week, I was playing a game in which one of my major rivals capitulated after losing just a couple of relatively minor cities. It is ironic that they will capitulate at a glance, but getting them to surrender tech in return for a peace treaty is like pulling teeth. "I won't give you Scientific Method, but I will surrender to you and lose the game for sure."

With regard to the vassals of OTHER players, this is a great element of the game. You have to pay attention to other players, things are not always bi-lateral. It is only natural that a weak (AI) player might seek the assistance of a stronger one and become its vassal.

Vassals are most irritating to deal with when they are a buffer between you and their master, because you pretty much have to go through them to get to the puppetmaster. When vassals are elsewhere, it is not much of a big deal; they will send their mobile army after you, which may be a temporary problem or may be nothing (obsolete tech, etc.), but once you have defeated that, they tend to calm down, and if you beat up the master power enough they will break away anyway and you can often arrange peace with them at that point so you can concentrate on the major threat (assuming you want to).

 

[KingMorgan]

but getting them to surrender tech in return for a peace treaty is like pulling teeth. "I won't give you Scientific Method, but I will surrender to you and lose the game for sure."

Annoying yes, but would you want to go back to Civ2 where you get a free tech for every city taken? That really made it easy for warmongers.

 

[PibbZ]

Annoying yes, but would you want to go back to Civ2 where you get a free tech for every city taken? That really made it easy for warmongers.

It was a cool concept, i wish it still was in the game, but rather as a lower chance, say, 15-20%.

 

[Gumbolt]

Having a interesting game vassel wise.

The Celts have been vassels to the english/shaka too and throw.

I thought a huge war with Joal II taking his capital. At end of this he became the Ethiopian vassel as he wanted protection.
Joao II was vassel to the Ethiopians.

In the following war Joao II was taken down to 7-8 cities with his capital moving 2-3 times. The Ethiopians down to 16 or so cities. (war on 2 fronts) Next thing i knew i was at war with Churchill. JoaoII had swapped to the English for protection from Ethiopians and this had triggered a war. Thankfully I was only nation with riflemen.

The war was devastating news as 30-40 units came charging at my recently built city with 2-3 units defending it. Half my units were at 50% strength and elsewhere as i was busy dealing with the Ethipian threats. I did lose the city but with 10-15+ riflemen the horse/knights/ elephants were no real match and I managed to clear 4-5 recently built English cities and reclaim back my city.

After several more wars Joao Ii declares independence and then became vassel to the English again for some bizzare reason.

Huayna Capac was at war with rome on other side of map. I got a message from him offfering to be my vassal for protection. he still had 8-9 cities.

All in all Vassels make for an interesting game. In most cases the vassels are usually too weak to be a pain. In other cases maybe not.