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Venice

Discussion in 'Leader Balance' started by void_genesis, Dec 9, 2014.

  1. janat08

    janat08 Chieftain

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    I belief vanilla wiki or what have you will describe that venice is indeed unique in it's puppets not counting towards research/culture costs.

    All that I like about venice is that you only have to control one city.
     
  2. ashendashin

    ashendashin Chieftain

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    Yeah you got it. That 50% penalty just doesn't look worth it to me unless I want a resource or just the position of the city.
     
  3. Gidoza

    Gidoza Chieftain

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    Cool. I'm going to have a little fun in my next game then by experimenting with more puppets as a tall civ - I'm usually annexing or razing, but with a science penalty not applying civ-wide on a puppet, the potential here has suddenly become so much more appealing. Thank you! :)
     
  4. Blue Ghost

    Blue Ghost Chieftain

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    How will the changes to unit XP affect Venice? Now that purchased units only get half XP, Venice would need to build units only in the capital if they want the full XP. I can see that hurting Venice’s ability to war.
     
  5. Gidoza

    Gidoza Chieftain

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    I would agree that Venice seems like an appropriate exception to the rule because it's supposed to function as an exception to...everything...
     
  6. ashendashin

    ashendashin Chieftain

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    Not much. I'll just buy more landsknechts for more gold to spam with.
     
  7. Gidoza

    Gidoza Chieftain

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    TBH I have a feeling that the change isn't going to affect ANY civ, really. I anticipate that if I really need units, I'll just purchase them wherever I need them - and 5 melee combats isn't really that much in the objective scope of things. In other words, I'm anticipating that this won't actually change anything other than that everyone's military will start with less experience points, which means that everyone will be on par with one another, which means nothing has changed...
     
  8. janat08

    janat08 Chieftain

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    So I fail to see whatever the gold is good for as everything is capped, and then on top of that trade routes will render advantages to other nations, no wonder this is a "conquest" nation.
     
  9. CrazyG

    CrazyG Warlord

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    Most experienced players seem to think that gold is too strong or at least borderline too strong in the latest patch. I'd play more before you pass these judgements
     
  10. tu_79

    tu_79 Warlord

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    Venice can invest gold in her puppets. It cuts the cost of that building in half, so puppets can develop as if they were proper cities, but most importantly, once invested, the building gets priority, so you can guide how every city develops.
    If not only for this, gold is very useful for:
    + investing in wonders cuts only 25%, but it can make you win the wonder race.
    + instant diplo units, changing the result of any world congress session.
    + instant garrison, if you are caught off-guard, this helps a bit.
    + upgrade army, for those high level units, never lose them.
    + dealing with other civs, get your hands on luxuries, strategic resources or simply make friends.
    + rushing an army, sometimes you want to surprise a neighbour.

    People value hammers 2:1 vs gold, but gold has many other uses.
     
    lunker and Infixo like this.
  11. pineappledan

    pineappledan Warlord

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    In the latest patch Venice's ability to generate GPP from puppets was disabled, so it can only generate GPPs in the capital.

    In light of this, would it be fair to increase the % GP boost on 1 or both of Venice's unique wonders?
    ie. could increase Piazzo San Marco to +50% GPP rate (currently 33%)
    or Could set Piazza San Marco to +35%, and give another +15%GPP to Rialto/Arsenale/Murano

    I'm interested to hear if the recent changes are strongly felt by Venice. It might not be worth troubling over, but I'm interested to hear people's responses after they've played a venice game
     
  12. ashendashin

    ashendashin Chieftain

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    Haven't played yet but I doubt Venice would need any form of buffs. Now that puppets are happiness neutral they literally have nothing to worry about beyond their enemies.
    I guess the Murano could get a big GPP buff for those who really want that sort of game.
     
  13. pineappledan

    pineappledan Warlord

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    My concern is just that, with the number of guilds reduced from 3 to 1 for venice, it's pretty much impossible for them to accumulate enough GWs for a cultural victory.

    It also puts them in a funny situation where there are buildings which literally have no benefit to venice. Guilds and gardens do nothing outside the capital

    It's not really afavoured playstyle for them anyways, but it's just funny that venice feels far less flexible with this change. Once again, we'll just have to wait and see
     
    bigcat88 and ashendashin like this.
  14. tu_79

    tu_79 Warlord

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    A valid concern, I'd say.
     
  15. bigcat88

    bigcat88 Chieftain

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    And what about their maintenance? If they do nothing and just cut gold per turn...:sad:
    And previously Venice was great for spawning Merchants Of Venice in all cities - that was the main key to victory. In last patch they can spawn only in capitol?
     
  16. Gothic_Empire

    Gothic_Empire AKA, Ramen Empire

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    Honestly, can we just end this no-settler nonsense and let Venice have X% more trade-routes and the ability to do more in their puppets?
     
  17. ElliotS

    ElliotS Warmonger

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    That is 100% a place for a modmod sir. WAAAAY too decisive.
     
  18. Gothic_Empire

    Gothic_Empire AKA, Ramen Empire

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    I'm interested on whether or not "may only generate great people from one city" was intended or unintended for Venice. @Gazebo
     
  19. void_genesis

    void_genesis Chieftain

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    Another option would be to let merchants of Venice create new city states that count as non-puppet cities. This could also be useful for the times you get no city states nearby on the map. Aren't there spare city state names available in most standard games?
     
  20. ashendashin

    ashendashin Chieftain

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    He acknowledged it, but stated that the happiness neutral puppets allowed Venice to swim in happiness and played well due to it, so it's not much of a loss.

    @void_genesis City-States count as minor civs, which are limited.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018

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