Venice

[pandasnail]

Expending a Great People grant 10 Influence..

So you're really a fan of this mechanic, huh? You have it on Austria in E&D, and given that was by far the easiest game I've ever played, I couldn't disagree more. Maaaybe it barely works on Deity where I'm sure you get less GPs, but 10 per would be broken on the regular difficulties.

Anyway, on my difficulties (King usually these days, Emp if I'm feeling focused), I'm having no issue with wide conqueror Venice, tho like tu says I need close neighbors and I do play Epic mostly. It's not as easy it used to be, but it used to be easier to conquer with Venice than with Mongolia Rome or Songhai, and I'm not sure that's ideal. Small buffs, esp to Arsenal (supply cap esp like you said) maybe, but I don't see the need for all this.

Wouldn't really know about Tall Venice as I play less games now, and have therefore pretty much given up on being a 'complete player' or whatever. Conquer conquer conquer.

 

[Owlbebach]

Last time I tried Venice (King, mind you), there is a long gap since you can really start doing things. Venice is quite fit for conquest (what else can you do with that much gold?), but you need someone to settle near you, so you can connect resources, increase suppy, move units faster and provide some place for faster healing. Taking CS alone is not going to work, even when some of them provide monopolies. But if you wait too long for someone to settle nearby, you may be too backwards to make any movement. So, it's a bit luck dependent.

The real power of Venice is when that when you annex City-State - you get its army. You go Authority, rush Trade, boom, you have 2 Merchants of Venice. Try to control nearest City-States and see which one has more army and which one has upgraded army. Build 4 Archers in your capital, annex 2 City-States with 2-3 Spearmen each, and you have strongest army in the world, time to attack your weakest neighbour.

 

[bigcat88]

Last time I tried Venice (King, mind you), there is a long gap since you can really start doing things. Venice is quite fit for conquest (what else can you do with that much gold?), but you need someone to settle near you, so you can connect resources, increase suppy, move units faster and provide some place for faster healing. Taking CS alone is not going to work, even when some of them provide monopolies. But if you wait too long for someone to settle nearby, you may be too backwards to make any movement. So, it's a bit luck dependent.

I was thinking about that. Maybe allow Venice to use their GreatMerchants to settle puppet cities? Like usual settler, but can found puppet city...

 

[Enginseer]

The only suggestion I made was that Venice's UB was too centralized on going tall. It emphasized only on the Capital City when it should be more than just the Capital City and her puppets. Other UBs don't have this problem on being too centralized on one city because you can usually build it everywhere. Venice's UB is its restriction.

 

[Owlbebach]

The only suggestion I made was that Venice's UB was too centralized on going tall. It emphasized only on the Capital City when it should be more than just the Capital City and her puppets. Other UBs don't have this problem on being too centralized on one city because you can usually build it everywhere. Venice's UB is its restriction.

Are you serious? To me it seems that Venice is anything but tall

 

[randomnub]

AI is unable to play it as anything else though.

 

[lordrune]

Guys the recent change with puppet cities no longer increasing science costs is a HUGE buff to Venice. Chill with regards to buffing them for a bit and see.

Yep. No penalties from puppet + no science and culture additional city penalty means really rapid teching.

 

[Taikavarpu]

Venice's puppets are arguably better than regular cities at this point. They can do almost everything a regular city can, and don't increase science and culture costs.

 

[Funak]

Anyone else having huge problems with unit supply-cap as Venice? Yes I did not for the arsenal UB, but other than that I got everything that boosted the cap and was completely unable to stay above 10 cap.

 

[ElliotS]

Anyone else having huge problems with unit supply-cap as Venice? Yes I did not for the arsenal UB, but other than that I got everything that boosted the cap and was completely unable to stay above 10 cap.

I haven't played Authority Venice in forever, so I'll need to test it out again before I can make a good statement.

 

[Moi Magnus]

Anyone else having huge problems with unit supply-cap as Venice? Yes I did not for the arsenal UB, but other than that I got everything that boosted the cap and was completely unable to stay above 10 cap.

Considering that Venice puppet cities are currently better than classical cities, except for supply cap, if Venice had no supply problems, it would be OP.
However I agree that 10 supply cap is very low, considering that you probably have a coastal capital so you need a navy...

 

[Owlbebach]

I have problems with Supply Cap in my current game. Quite a lot of problems actually. But to me it seems like it is more about not having enough gold, cause you can fix it by investing in right buildings. Also i'm not trying to make Tradition-->Tourism Venice work, so not Authority

 

[bigcat88]

Played a month ago 2 games for Venice - no problems with supply cup at all. But I was Authority Venice without terracotta or great wall. And Venice navy are crazy - love them )
Just purchase military buildings in puppet cities.
Currently right now when GA increases unit cup too there cant be any problems with supply cup even for non Authority Venice.

 

[Paramecium]

I still have problems to figure out how to play Venice, especially after the trade route change.

In fact I just see two early ways you can pick, tradition and just taking a few City states and try to be best buddy with everyone.

Or authority to boost your puppets and get most out of fighting.

But my general problem is, which city states do you guys pick with your first MoV(s)? I try to take militaristic ones whos UU isnot to my liking and maybe faith, because it is quite hard for me to found with Venice because of so few cities early on.

And what are your considerations if you attack your neighbours? I would say let them settle towards you to grab that land which is in fact yours, but if things go wrong they wont to it in time and you might face a huge uphill battle, because if you just have Venice and your few cs, your sup cap is quite low...

 

[Owlbebach]

I still have problems to figure out how to play Venice, especially after the trade route change.

In fact I just see two early ways you can pick, tradition and just taking a few City states and try to be best buddy with everyone.

Or authority to boost your puppets and get most out of fighting.

But my general problem is, which city states do you guys pick with your first MoV(s)? I try to take militaristic ones whos UU isnot to my liking and maybe faith, because it is quite hard for me to found with Venice because of so few cities early on.

And what are your considerations if you attack your neighbours? I would say let them settle towards you to grab that land which is in fact yours, but if things go wrong they wont to it in time and you might face a huge uphill battle, because if you just have Venice and your few cs, your sup cap is quite low...

It is almost impossible to found with Venice cause you do not have your pantheon in City-States that you buy.
Venice definetely can't play Progress
If you play Tradition - you want to get Pyramids, if you play Authority - you get settler fo free. With two settlers you take those City-States that have most advanced and upgraded army, ideally they should also be placed good for an attack. Once you purchased two city-states (or even before, with first 3 archers) you attack you neighbour and take 3 of his cities that he settled in "your" land and ideally take his capital. You'll have very big army, but you can't replenish it, so use it wisely and carefully. After that play normally. Or conquer the world

By the way, Venice is OP, it's puppets definitely should have some penalty, maybe 50% or 70% of usual puppets?

 

[CrazyG]

Venice has a somewhat plausible path to a religion, which is to build Stonehenge, take Goddess of Beauty, immediately rush towards and build a second wonder (likely the Pyramids), then use your great engineer to build a third wonder.

I haven't attempted this build order recently so I can't comment on how well it works on higher difficulties, but its something that was possible on previous patches

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

I haven't played Venice in ages, but I imagine it's potentially viable to pick God of War and go barb hunting (especially after buying your first CS and getting its army).

 

[Owlbebach]

I haven't played Venice in ages, but I imagine it's potentially viable to pick God of War and go barb hunting (especially after buying your first CS and getting its army).

I've tried it once and it was absolutely awful, i was not even close to getting religion

 

[Funak]

Venice has a somewhat plausible path to a religion, which is to build Stonehenge, take Goddess of Beauty, immediately rush towards and build a second wonder (likely the Pyramids), then use your great engineer to build a third wonder.

I haven't attempted this build order recently so I can't comment on how well it works on higher difficulties, but its something that was possible on previous patches

You probably need to use your first MoV to gain influence with a religious city-state on top of that, but yeah that seems like the most reasonable approach.

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

I've tried it once and it was absolutely awful, i was not even close to getting religion

Interesting, it's one of my favourite pantheons and I've had lots of success with it, but I rarely get it nowadays because the AI seems to have started picking it very often.