Version 1.97 posted

Hypnotoad said:
What game speed are you playing on? I don't find much of a problem on normal.

Back in the bad old days, tech development times were much quicker. There was a real problem with people having researched all of the techs by 200 AD. To combat this, Thamis slowed down the time it takes for cottages to develop and he increased the cost of techs. I find it a much more satisfying game right now. Perhaps the very first tier techs costs could be decreased without much loss. What, in particular, seems inappropriate to you?
Click to expand...

I'm playing on normal speed, too. I think that the speed of tech development is too slow, esp. in the early turns. The 5th millenium (5000-4000) BC just was not so slow or primitive, at least not in the Near East and Egypt (China, too, but that's a different scenario). Check out Wikipedia under 5th millenium to see the spread of culture and technology. For example Jericho and Catal Hoyuk in what's now SE Turkey were flourishing towns with agriculture and pottery and the beginnings of copper use by 5000 BC. This just don't happen in TAM. I think a major re-think of the tech tree and cost of techs should be undertaken not only for historical verisimilitude but also for enjoyable game play. I was also a partner in a game development and publishing company a number of years ago and have been involved with game testing a lot since, so I know at least something about gaming and gamers. Please, TAM is a very good mod, let's make it a truly great one.

jimmygeo
 
Not sure if this is the right thread to post into - but here goes...

I loaded v1.97 (first version ever loaded) yesterday, and it automaticaly booted up Civ and I could get playing (I also loaded the Peloponnesian war scenario - 'cos I fanced having a crack at that).

Today when I try to load the mod / or the save game, it says it need to restart, shuts down Civ and then I get the first loading screen (the one that says 'loading in a number of different languages). This then vanishes and nothing more happens. Task manager still has the civ4.exe process running, but it never gets any further. Any suggestions?
 
jimmygeo said:
I'm playing on normal speed, too. I think that the speed of tech development is too slow, esp. in the early turns. The 5th millenium (5000-4000) BC just was not so slow or primitive, at least not in the Near East and Egypt (China, too, but that's a different scenario). Check out Wikipedia under 5th millenium to see the spread of culture and technology. For example Jericho and Catal Hoyuk in what's now SE Turkey were flourishing towns with agriculture and pottery and the beginnings of copper use by 5000 BC. This just don't happen in TAM. I think a major re-think of the tech tree and cost of techs should be undertaken not only for historical verisimilitude but also for enjoyable game play. I was also a partner in a game development and publishing company a number of years ago and have been involved with game testing a lot since, so I know at least something about gaming and gamers. Please, TAM is a very good mod, let's make it a truly great one.

jimmygeo
Click to expand...

Ah, I didn't quite understand the the tenor of your criticism. You are worried about the historical accuracy of the early game. (On a similar note, I always found Christianity well after 0 BC, because it is a late tech). Well, one thing that could be done is to re-arrange the calander so that turns our shorter in these first 3000 years. But there is still a basic problem: at least half of the civilizations don't even exist during these 3000 years, let alone develop technology. I would think this would be a greater historical concern: how do you start playing Rome in 5500 BC?

But even ignoring that, are you going to let Carthage and Rome and Lydia develop agriculture, animal husbandry, copper working, etc. in the 4000s? If so, doesn't that have the same (if not worse) historical problems? If not, how are you going to avoid Babylon and Egypt absolutely dominating the game from their strong start in the 4000s? And how are you going to avoid the game for Rome and Germany being as dull as dirt for the first 3000 years?

I think that what you say makes sense for the Near East and Egypt, but I'm not sure that it does for the Mediterranean as a whole. It would be nice to see a mod just for the Near East and Egypt.
 
Thanks for the fast response!!!
Well, I reinstalled v1.97 and the game that crashed with me, worked without a problem. The other Savegame I had, that of my son, does not load without crashing so it is probably of little use, but I post it just the same.
I'll play again and will it post if anything happens,

Waterloo
 
I finally tried a little 1.97 last night. The graphics look great! My Chariot Archers did the run-across-the-screen thing a few times when ordered to attack.

I like the Javelin moved to Woodworking. Were there any other game changes?

I would suggest moving the Scout unit to Hunting. Unless he can cross non-open boarders, by the time I research Exploration there is little need for Scouts.
 
started a new gam after applying your fix. still got the ctd around 4000 BC
its msvcp71.dll that gets the error......

Played another civ game without the mod and no crash. weird.


uploaded my save game to you. i get the ctd when i hit the next turn button.
 
On the 1.97 Medium Med map, Rome is called: TEXT_NAME.

The Tartessain bio still says their starting tech is fishing, but in game they start with Pastoralism and Ceremonial Burial. I think Fishing and Parstoralism would be a nice starting tech combo for them.
 
Hypnotoad said:
Ah, I didn't quite understand the the tenor of your criticism. You are worried about the historical accuracy of the early game. (On a similar note, I always found Christianity well after 0 BC, because it is a late tech). Well, one thing that could be done is to re-arrange the calander so that turns our shorter in these first 3000 years. But there is still a basic problem: at least half of the civilizations don't even exist during these 3000 years, let alone develop technology. I would think this would be a greater historical concern: how do you start playing Rome in 5500 BC?

But even ignoring that, are you going to let Carthage and Rome and Lydia develop agriculture, animal husbandry, copper working, etc. in the 4000s? If so, doesn't that have the same (if not worse) historical problems? If not, how are you going to avoid Babylon and Egypt absolutely dominating the game from their strong start in the 4000s? And how are you going to avoid the game for Rome and Germany being as dull as dirt for the first 3000 years?

I think that what you say makes sense for the Near East and Egypt, but I'm not sure that it does for the Mediterranean as a whole. It would be nice to see a mod just for the Near East and Egypt.
Click to expand...

Your points are well taken. I was not suggesting that all cives start with more techs, just the 'older' Near Eastern ones (e.g. Babylonia, Egypt etc.). They should all have at least tools, pastoralism and agriculture in addition to any civ specific ones. That way other civs such as Rome, Carthage etc. would start at a disadvantage and would have to develope techs.

Alternatively, you could employ the device that Rhye's and Fall uses of having the later civs start later with more techs.

Just some thoughts.

jimmygeo
 
jimmygeo said:
Your points are well taken. I was not suggesting that all cives start with more techs, just the 'older' Near Eastern ones (e.g. Babylonia, Egypt etc.). They should all have at least tools, pastoralism and agriculture in addition to any civ specific ones. That way other civs such as Rome, Carthage etc. would start at a disadvantage and would have to develope techs.

Alternatively, you could employ the device that Rhye's and Fall uses of having the later civs start later with more techs.

Just some thoughts.

jimmygeo
Click to expand...

Your ideas work well for a scenario, but not for the mod as a whole. In order for multiplayer on a random map to be viable, each civ has to be balanced from the start. Just giving the earlier civs a huge bonus while all the later civs start with practically nothing makes for a very one-sided game.
 
I checked on the Rome city bug, and I did not see anything wrong with it. Does it happen for any other civ than Rome?
 
TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_CAPUA
TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_ROMA

Attached is a game that displays the error.

I was messing around with a random map game noticed the addition of 2 new resources: Salt(health) and Honey(happy).

The algorithm that distributes resources in the random map can do some mad bunching. I had 7 grassland gem squares in my starting city radius!
 
I'll make a new text file and post it as a fix. Once I post it just extract the XML file into the text folder and it should work.
 
I fixed the city problem by renaming TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_ROMA to ROME, and I also just took out Capua comletely, the city lists have been shifted for some reason. I'll post the CivilizationInfos soon.

By the way, great graphics Laurino! I wish I had that kind of talent. I had no crashes in my Hittite game. And the slow load time can be attributed to the addition of so many new art files. Kael has a Tutorial on how to make your mod load faster by PAKing the art files.
 
I noticed a bug in 1.97:

The Cartagian War Elephants as well as Hannibal get xp but won't get promotions.
 
I'll take a look at the Elephant and Hannibal later today...
 
Playing TAM 1.97, I noticed some strange things (bug or wad?)

1) Heavy Horse Archer and Steppe Marauder are mounted units now instead of archer units like they were in 1.96, but Targitaus (Steppe Marauder Hero) remains an archer

2) Abibel of Tyre (Phoenician Bireme Hero) cannot enter enemy sea squares during peacetime like normal biremes do instead

3) Illyrian Kambsor is a medium unit spearman, while Pyrrhus of Epirus (Kambsor Hero) is a heavy unit instead

4) When you create a new phoenician town, city name prompts in english ignoring translation
 
Elephants are now in a category of their own: Elephant Units. I forgot to add this type of units to the promotions file.

All heroes are supposed to be the same combat type than their base unit. thanks for pointing out the bug;)

Abybel of Tyr should be able to do the same as galleys... It'll be corrected
 
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