Version 2.6 discussion

JosEPh_II · Mar 8, 2009

D/L'd the 3/07/09 Beta last night and can now play again. Started 2 games, one in the Industrial era and the other in Ancient. Played both for about an hour each (50+ turns). No problems to report yet. :thumbsup:

JosEPh

iyyillius · Mar 8, 2009

Hey Zap,

I was able to start my first beta game this morning. loaded up just fine all good. But i got the same problem that kalikhamus got. Except it did not occur after my city was taken. It was like this:
Hittites spawned from barb civ next to me-started golden age-moved spear stack up to one of my cities which was well defended-stayed there for a few turns-golden age ended-i ended turn-then my globey thing just keeps turning until i hafta restart.
Now one thing that was VERY curious about this is that i noticed that while they were a minor civ there was no icon on the score list indicating that they were at war with me. Then after they turned into a full civ and were still very much at war with me the icon still did not appear. I believe this is the root of this problem.

iyyillius · Mar 8, 2009

Just had the glitch were the globe just keeps spinning again and just infinatley says "waiting for other civs" again. This time I was not at war with anyone though, There was a barb city adjacent to my capitol. I would imagine that there were other AI civs at war with minor civs though.

vincentz · Mar 8, 2009

First of all : What an truly amazing mod. This is no longer civ4, but civ 5 or maybe even civ 6. I am currently on my 166 hour of an emperor game, that without question is the best civ game i've ever played. Many times I've almost given up and the only reason I can still play is because I dropped 4 nukes on an invasion force that made D-day look like a rubberduck in a bathtop. There has been rise and fall of empires and 4 or 5 world wars....

Anyway, I have a couple of suggestions for future updates. Some I'm sure is not going to work with the AI, and other that would be very easy to implement. Here they come

1. Secret Agent (max 3): Spy abilities, 3 move, paradrop 20(?), Promotions : loyalty, security I, escape artist I, commando, can investigate cities. price 400, require scotland yard, flight and electronics. Great spy button and animation and new colour from forum.
I almost never uses spies, coz they are to weak and in later game they are to cheap.

2. Red October (max 1): Rouge Nuclear sub. Hidden nationality.

3. With all due respect to people who lost relatives, it would be very easy to make a couple of suicide terrorist. An airliner like missile, but with a lot of colleterol damage and very cheap.

4. Planes needs airports. Maybe not the early planes (hangars instead), but imagine a stealth bomber landing in your backyard. Not very realistic. Ofcourse they should have a longer range then. Would make the airport a nice target for a spy. And the fact that every time you capture a city the airport is destroyed is kinda wierd. The airport is usually the first building to be captured so you can make a airsupply bridge. Latest known example is baghdad

5. The clone factory to built clones idea for all units. You cannot build tanks if you dont have a manufactoring plant (or factory). Cannot train specialized infantry (antitank, marines ect) without the garrison, cannot built modern planes without an aeroplant (or whatever they are called). cannot built modern ships without the drydock etc etc... dont know how the AI is going to respond to that though.

6 Slaves. can be an overkill on cpu. But if slavery is enabled and you win an easy victory, you'll get a slave worker. can be sacrified for buildings or built improvements 25% of normal worker.

7. make it easier for planes to get xp. The planes that i have, have in average 10-17 xp after a long service. There are way to many nice promotions to ignore.

Well, thats all for me right now, but maybe I come back later with more suggestions.

JosEPh_II · Mar 8, 2009

The Ancient Era game I started with 2.6Beta is up to 1150AD Normal Speed HUge Archipelago map. If I don't save every 9 to ten turns I get a Black screen at the End of Turn and the " CIV IV BtS exe has encountered a problem" msg. This started around 400BC. As long as I remember to save every 9 or so turns I play just fine. But if I forget then I get kicked out.

I am able to reload from the last AutoSave but generally lose 1-3 turns.

I forgot to look at the Logs but will try to get some posted tomorrow night.

3 str Trained Dogs are rough on Spearmen now. Even the barb dogs can take down a Spear setting on a hill. So you better pick your battles carefully.

I don't have RevDCM on But I do have Start as Minor and BarbCiv activated.

Every CTD has been at end of turn. And everyone goes to a Black screen. When you got a Black screen in Master of Orion III it was a DirectX Surface Unavailable Error. Don't know if that even applies with the CIV engine, but thought I'd mention it.

I like the "Play" of 2.6Beta so far.

Just gotta figure out the end of turn crash.

JosEPh

schack · Mar 9, 2009

Sadly right now it is hard to get a grasp of things due to that pesky infinite loop end-of-turn bug. It seems destined to rear its ugly head at one point or other and has in the three games I've played so far at fairly random times. Unlike some of the other reports I did not have any barbarian cities within my viewfield, and in the second game it certainly wasn't in any uncovered part of the map. That just means it seems strike anywhere, which makes more sense too.

I remember having a similar issue on one and only one occassion in RoM 2.5, but that seemed more to do with buggy AI that would move huge stacks of units back and forth between two squares indefinately, which I solved by paying the involved civilization to make peace and thus alter its warplan. They don't seem connected at all, I just remembered I ran into this a while ago.

Of the few things I did note was that my cities seem far, far easier to keep under control with regards to Revolutions. Normally when you'd found a city while having only the basic civics, it's Rev factor would be on an increase, but now it's actually zero as long as the city is connected to the capital. It does increase ever so slightly if the city is not connected to the capital or if the city is close to a different civ and has no culture producing building.
While not directly a RoM issue I think it is a bit too easy right now which is also evident from the lack of AI revolutions occuring.

Another thing is that religions unlike in 2.5 are not restricted to one per civ. I realise this is an intended change, but it alters the game quite a lot, to the point where you can tech for a lot of religions and more or less take them out of the picture entirely which seems to make for more peaceful games. Perhaps the option should be put on the Custom Game screen rather than in the XML file? It seems to be virtually as game changing as playing with many of the other options on/off.

zappara · Mar 9, 2009

I have not yet figured out what is causing the "waiting for the civs" bug - tried several things already but they didn't fix it. I do know it's caused by revdcm python so you should start custom game and turn off all RevolutionDCM (4 options) from the game options. I'll continue tracking down the bugs this week.

CivFanCCS · Mar 10, 2009

zappara said:
I have not yet figured out what is causing the "waiting for the civs" bug - tried several things already but they didn't fix it. I do know it's caused by revdcm python so you should start custom game and turn off all RevolutionDCM (4 options) from the game options. I'll continue tracking down the bugs this week.

The "waiting for civs" bug seems related to Rev Barb. stuff. I started a game with all rev. options and encountered this bug around turn 50. I then started a game with only barb. turned off (all other rev. options on) and I have not yet encounted this, and I am quite far in the game....

Also one other thing, the AI is awful when playing snail game speed... It might be that Better AI core is not coded for that length of game...IDK but it seems real bad.

johntmax · Mar 10, 2009

I'd like to see a lot more stuff added to the Future Era or perhaps a new era around the Future Era with a lot of stuff based off of the Venus Project. Here are some videos that get very deep into the mechanics of the Venus Project

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iRBTt8kvQc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cf1gZxmIDKw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYrmHhxZI2w

Here is a link to download a pdf with details on the Venus Project

http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/A-DesigningtheFutureE-BOOK-small.pdf

I'd love to see a lot of new technologies, civics, units, buildings, and wonders based off these ideas.

Zimbaa · Mar 10, 2009

Saw some trouble with building the new Templar Chapter House. It is national wonder and you can have 3 of them if Im not mistaken. Once you build your third Templar Chapter House, one of the prevoius you built is deleted from a city. :confused:

kthx · Mar 10, 2009

i just wanted to post the error i get with the new version, maybe someone else has experienced these:

civ crashes to desktop, no civ error message. i got this out of the event log:

Faulting application name: Civ4BeyondSword.exe, version: 3.1.3.1, time stamp: 0x48310000
Faulting module name: CvGameCoreDLL.dll, version: 0.0.0.0, time stamp: 0x49ade2c5
Exception code: 0xc0000005
Fault offset: 0x000e6c20
Faulting process id: 0xcf8
Faulting application start time: 0x01c9a1c50a5685c7
Faulting application path: D:\games\Civ 4\Beyond the Sword\Civ4BeyondSword.exe
Faulting module path: D:\games\Civ 4\Beyond the Sword\mods\Rise of Mankind\Assets\CvGameCoreDLL.dll
Report Id: ba4eca2f-0dbb-11de-8cf0-00221590c4db

hmm is there anything i can do?

0100010 · Mar 10, 2009

zappara said:
I have not yet figured out what is causing the "waiting for the civs" bug - tried several things already but they didn't fix it. I do know it's caused by revdcm python so you should start custom game and turn off all RevolutionDCM (4 options) from the game options. I'll continue tracking down the bugs this week.

It's not RevBarb (alone) as far as I can tell, but due to some revolution component of an existing civ. You can determine which Civ it affected by loading a prior save and saving just before the looping turn occurs. then use Ctrl-Shift-L to iterate through each of the Civs in order until you get to the one which does not provide oyu with an end of Turn button, and doesn't let you select any units etc. This is the problem civ. Fortunately you can open up the Rev adviser screen and look at numbers... if those numbers mean anything to you, I have no idea how to make any sense of useful information out of anything in the new Revolution Adviser screen. Whether or not RevBarbaian had any problem, might be an unrelated issue, or if you manage to iterate all the way to the Barb player, and it hangs on that one. (but then again you shouldn't choose the Barb player anyway when switching civs since it can act weird regardless.

Course this doesn't fix the problem, just maybe help narrow it down. You'll have to play games with the "New random seed on load" checked. Then try reloadingt and hoping the random number generator gives a value to the problem civ that allows it ro finish it's turn.

little_cyclone · Mar 11, 2009

After finally having enough time to sit down and play through a map to the modern age, I"ve come to a solid conclusion: The Jeep must be nerfed. I couldn't figure out how a handful of Jeeps were managing to take on a very heft defended city full of Infantry. Then I check the stats. Holy Crap! :eek:

-Requires Machine Tools, and Oil Products/Rubber
-262 Production/Hammers/Whatever
-22 Strengh
-3 Movement
-Can Withdraw (10% starting)
-25% Attack bonus vs Machine GUns
-200% bonus vs Archers
-100% bonus vs Mounted units
-200% bonus vs Melee
-Flank bonus vs Siege
-Starts with Blitz

And since it wasn't explicitly mentioned, I'll go ahead and state it so everyone is aware, they also receive full defensive bonuses.

All of these put together, their 22 strength (which exceeds Infantry at 20, matches armored cars at 22, and nearly reaches the level of early and light tanks at 28), withdraw chance, 3 movement & Blitz (which the AI enjoys using to great effect via bunches of kamikaze jeeps :rolleyes:

), and able to use defensive bonuses all add up to make them extremely overpowered with little to stand in their way in the industrial-modern era (especially if used in large numbers, as the AI is wont to do) except, well, other Jeeps, and then only if you have lots of them.

Zap, these have got to be nerfed...

iyyillius · Mar 11, 2009

I reluctantly agree with little cyclone.... crap now I'm gonna hafta change my early modern era strat......

Also... and i have mentioned this elsewhere. If you look at your tech tree it is quite possible (if not common in some of my games) that one will have a substantial force of jeeps running around with riflemen and cannons. Its possible to b-line jeeps without getting machine guns or infantry or artillery.

Aside from that.... they should deffinatly also be nerfed.... They should probably be more of a reconnasance unit though that is what the motorcycle is intended to be.

zappara · Mar 11, 2009

Here's now RoM2.6003beta version and I hope this version does now work correctly with all RevDCM options enabled. I'm not sure if I indeed "accidently" fixed the "waiting for other civs" bug with all the other minor fixes&changes but at least my test game is up to renaissance era without any problems with all RevDCM options enabled.

Download RoM 2.6beta3

Version 2.6003

Spoiler :

Next week if all goes well, we'll have v2.6 ready. I'll just do some minor changes based on feedback, just like nerfing those Jeeps

Note that those new unit strengths and costs are quite experimental values so if you notice any unit to be overpowered let me know asap so I can tweak them. Other suggestions will probably have to wait for v2.7...

Edit: seems glider has posted some minor patch for REVDCM so I'll have to check that out too.

Edit2: This version has also most debugging stuff on by default so that log files give more detailed reports in case you run into problems.

0100010 · Mar 11, 2009

2.6002

You might want to increase the cost of the Trained Dogs a bit, since they are now str 3 instead of str 2. Currently they are cheaper than Archers. Spearmen at str 3 seem to be working out pretty well, more evenly balanced. I cant comment much past the Classical era units as I've not gotten a game that far. (running snail and would hit the waiting for civ bug early)

You gave us the ability to build quarries, etc outside cultural borders, however that does not enable access to the resource as far as I can tell. You still can't obtain it until its inside your cultural borders.

General suggestions: It's always irked me that with RoM, you can now build mines and other similar resources without the need to clear the forests underneath them. Yet, mineable resources still will never get generated under a forest becase the bonus info settings don't alow it. This is an easy fix, by adding such info to the Terrain Feature sections. I've also disliked that Gold, Silver, Gems, etc (mineral resources) are clustered by area (Area Flag in BonusInfo is set to 1, and lattitude restrictions are narrow) when in reality, such mineral can show up anywhere. On earth, silver mines can show up in the tropics as easily as in the tundra, and vice versa for gems.
Make minable resources span the 0 to 90 latitude range (like iron/copper) and set their area flag to zero.

Carwyn · Mar 11, 2009

I almost hate to mention this, but the scientific trait seems a bit over powered. You fixed financial to even that out so that some of us will play it, but not everyone felt forced to do so. As scientific is now, you almost have to play that trait to remain competitive. Maybe scale it back just a bit? Now I'm off to download 2.6 beta 3. Are the saved games compatible with 2.6 beta 2?

We were playing last night and hit the world spinning bug, but a reload of a couple of turns back sailed right past it. Seemed to hit when a civ declared war on one of us (we reloaded the turn that crashed first and the same thing happened).

Edit: Any special instructions for installation? Should I install over 2.6 beta 2 or over 2.5?

Thanks!

0100010 · Mar 11, 2009

Carwyn said:
I almost hate to mention this, but the scientific trait seems a bit over powered. You fixed financial to even that out so that some of us will play it, but not everyone felt forced to do so. As scientific is now, you almost have to play that trait to remain competitive. Maybe scale it back just a bit? Now I'm off to download 2.6 beta 3. Are the saved games compatible with 2.6 beta 2?

I agree, Scientific is powerful, perhaps drop the 10% science bonus altogether or at least reduce it by half.

zappara · Mar 11, 2009

Carwyn said:
I almost hate to mention this, but the scientific trait seems a bit over powered. You fixed financial to even that out so that some of us will play it, but not everyone felt forced to do so. As scientific is now, you almost have to play that trait to remain competitive. Maybe scale it back just a bit? Now I'm off to download 2.6 beta 3. Are the saved games compatible with 2.6 beta 2?

We were playing last night and hit the world spinning bug, but a reload of a couple of turns back sailed right past it. Seemed to hit when a civ declared war on one of us (we reloaded the turn that crashed first and the same thing happened).

Edit: Any special instructions for installation? Should I install over 2.6 beta 2 or over 2.5?

Thanks!

It should work alright when installing over 2.6beta2 and over 2.5 (tested it with 2.5). The DLL was updated too but glider had posted that saved games should still be compatible with new version.

I'll tweak scientific trait.

Kalimakhus · Mar 11, 2009

I've just started a game with 2.6Beta3. I had a ctd quite early in the game. I will try reloading to see if it will go away. Another issue is that when you get a tech you have the pop-up screen twice!! I guess if some python file was removed in the new patch then it needs a clean re-installation i.e. 2.5 then 2.6beta3. The duplicate pop-up can be due to two event handlers. Also my CTD can be for some hidden issue caused by installing over 2.6002. I will re-install and report back.

Version 2.6 discussion

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