Version 2.7 discussion

[Bezhukov]

Nerfing the percent bonuses on the late wonders makes them a waste to build. Need to return IPort to National Wonder status (or limit its spamming) and do the same with Commercial Airports. These boost the base commerce way too much.

Also, very high priority to get AI to build fish huts now that shrimp makes them even more ridiculous and to get AI to stop chopping its forests.

As it is now, anything short of Deity is quickly a blowout (especially with later Ports, an improvement that lets the AI get a decent amount of commerce despite its atrocious worker actions).

 

[JosEPh_II]

Hmmm. Just re-installed the whole shibang, with 2.7 patched on top of 2.62. Civics screen still crashing. Not sure how other people are playing 2.7 without hiccups?

Foul

I've been playing 2.7test1 exclusively and have had zero problems. Very stable.

I want to finish this current game (1950AD-ish) 1st before adding either the 2.62 or 2.63, or even the new 2.7test2.

Huge, Archipelago, Epic, 10 AI, Warlord level (for testing). No Vassals, No REVDCM, No BarbCiv, No Start as Minors; just Basic Core RoM.

While maintanence costs for Modern era ships and land units have been increased have been able to balance that thru economic buildings and Civics.

I do think some of the Higher/ later Civics are a bit slim in what they do. But that could also be for making the late game more of a challenge IF you use them. I have found that once certain Civics are achieved there isn't much incentive to change to newer ones. Why tinker with something that is working well for your play style? <shrug>

I like 2.7test1.

JosEPh

 

[zappara]

I like the looks of this, especially the new uses for ancient temples. Do you have any more plans for the lead resource? It has it's uses, but I think it could be expanded upon.

Yes, I got plans... lots of plans... What the uses for lead will be eventually really depends on how I'll improve the resource system with manufactured resources and all that is just big blurry thing in my head - which is why I've reserved the next 2 months to sort out the resource changes and design the completely new future era.

Nerfing the percent bonuses on the late wonders makes them a waste to build. Need to return IPort to National Wonder status (or limit its spamming) and do the same with Commercial Airports. These boost the base commerce way too much.

Also, very high priority to get AI to build fish huts now that shrimp makes them even more ridiculous and to get AI to stop chopping its forests

Because future era will get some new stuff in this patch cycle, I'll have to nerf some things in order to make room for new things and to keep things balanced for future era. Current v2.6 late era wonders do have many great modifiers so nerfing them a little bit doesn't make them obsolete.

Fishing hut's have been modified bit (as seen in latest patch notes) so that AIs should be more eager to build them but even with those changes it's possible that they won't build them because AIWeight and flavor values are only used after the AI has decided what kind of building type it wants to build so if there's multiple buildings for food production and AI decides to build one of those, then AIweight and flavors will affect the choice.


Edit: just noticed that RoM 2.62 is at TOP 2 position on Filefront's Hottest Files list with about 16000 downloads last week... and it has been downloaded almost 36000 times totally... The total sum is like 3x the amount of people in this town where I'm living

 

[Bezhukov]

Yes, I got plans... lots of plans... What the uses for lead will be eventually really depends on how I'll improve the resource system with manufactured resources and all that is just big blurry thing in my head - which is why I've reserved the next 2 months to sort out the resource changes and design the completely new future era.

Because future era will get some new stuff in this patch cycle, I'll have to nerf some things in order to make room for new things and to keep things balanced for future era. Current v2.6 late era wonders do have many great modifiers so nerfing them a little bit doesn't make them obsolete.

Fishing hut's have been modified bit (as seen in latest patch notes) so that AIs should be more eager to build them but even with those changes it's possible that they won't build them because AIWeight and flavor values are only used after the AI has decided what kind of building type it wants to build so if there's multiple buildings for food production and AI decides to build one of those, then AIweight and flavors will affect the choice.


Edit: just noticed that RoM 2.62 is at TOP 2 position on Filefront's Hottest Files list with about 16000 downloads last week... and it has been downloaded almost 36000 times totally... The total sum is like 3x the amount of people in this town where I'm living

Once I get the IPorts and Commercial Airports built, I'm consistently on 1/2 turn research on Marathon in the 1700's AD (if not before). At that point, things like Radio Telescope are a waste, compared to, say, Theory of Everything. Its not the percentages that are crazy, its the base commerce.

Meanwhile, the AI is building 37 turn infantry and workshopping its food resources.

 

[FoulFoot]

Can you post up 2.7 test 2?

Foul

 

[zappara]

Can you post up 2.7 test 2?

Foul

Not yet! I'll post it once I get the tech tree done again with new future techs. Most likely it will be early June.

 

[Munger]

Just tried a 2.7test1 multiplayer game with two players over internet with Revolutions off but Barb Civs on, and it was completely stable for several hundred turns. The only time we got an OOS was when one of us lost our last city through war, and also when I tried AIautoplay. Neither of these are a big deal. Very encouraging!

Hopefully the changes introduced in Rev 2.0 won't make things more unstable. Fingers crossed. However I must admit I'm worried that integrating WoC into Revolutions will make it completely incompatible with multiplayer games as my test games with 2.62 WoC Lite got OOS errors as soon as the game started.

I'm still not sure how to get OOSlogger to create a log file when an OOS error does happen though. Is there a setting that must be changed in BUG, or should it happen by default? Would appreciate your guidance Zap.

 

[zappara]

I'm still not sure how to get OOSlogger to create a log file when an OOS error does happen though. Is there a setting that must be changed in BUG, or should it happen by default? Would appreciate your guidance Zap.

It should write the logs automatically whenever OOS happens. I haven't written that python module so I'm not entirely sure how it works but I've checked that it should be automatic process.

 

[Munger]

It should write the logs automatically whenever OOS happens. I haven't written that python module so I'm not entirely sure how it works but I've checked that it should be automatic process.

Hmm, okay thanks Zap. Haven't managed to find any logs on my PC so far after getting an OOS error. Should they save to the RoM folder in BTS/Mods directory?

 

[Munger]

On a totally different note, I've noticed that the Lead resource shows up a LOT in most of the games I've played - possibly too frequently. It isn't uncommon to see groups of three or four tiles with it, all in very close proximity. Not sure if this is intentional? It can have quite a big impact on cities due to the unhealthiness factor.

 

[zappara]

Hmm, okay thanks Zap. Haven't managed to find any logs on my PC so far after getting an OOS error. Should they save to the RoM folder in BTS/Mods directory?

If you are using the version I posted, it should write the log into RoM folder. Have you checked your log files after OOS - just want to hear if pythonerr.logs have anything to say about OOSLogger module.

On a totally different note, I've noticed that the Lead resource shows up a LOT in most of the games I've played - possibly too frequently. It isn't uncommon to see groups of three or four tiles with it, all in very close proximity. Not sure if this is intentional? It can have quite a big impact on cities due to the unhealthiness factor.

I guess I'll have to tweak it a bit. I try various mapscripts and save the map from worldbuilder and then count the lead resource amounts with text editor - I've tried to set lead occurrance so that standard size map has 8-10 resources on whole map. So in my tests I didn't check how close to each other the map generator places this resource.

 

[Bezhukov]

Current game: Incas, Marathon, Immortal, Perfect World, no tech diffusion, no wars with my top 4 rivals, 30K/turn research by 1000AD.

= )

This is not a complaint or a criticism, merely a suggestion for priorities in enhancing gameplay. I think trade routes are too easy to secure/too easily boosted once one hits the early industrial period and it just snowballs.

 

[Jabarto]

I think trade routes are too easy to secure/too easily boosted once one hits the early industrial period and it just snowballs.

Genghis Kai has an elegant solution for this in his mod.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7161548&postcount=67

Basically, you don't gain trade routes from techs anymore, but certain buildings (like markets) grant them. The end result is that trade is just as powerful as before, but takes more effort to set up. Maybe something like this could be tried in ROM.

 

[CMKMStephens]

Clicking on the 'Revolt instability' graph caused a CTD in 2.7, also, attempting to load a save game within the game results in a CTD every time.

*edit* Bleh, Giant map, just getting up around 500BC, it starts CTDing every few turns.

 

[Munger]

If you are using the version I posted, it should write the log into RoM folder. Have you checked your log files after OOS - just want to hear if pythonerr.logs have anything to say about OOSLogger module.

I'm using RoM 2.7test1. Is that what you meant? Or is there something separate I need to download? Apologies if I'm sounding dumb with this.

I always run a file search on my PC after I get an OOS error in RoM, and the search has never found any files with OOS in the title except for the OOSlogger config files. I have also looked in the RoM mod folder and there is nothing there that looks like an OOS file.

 

[CMKMStephens]

Hmm, started a Huge map instead of giant, and it's crashing even earlier.

Huge, tectonics, 60% water, start with 2 AI and barbmod on. Basically the game will (seemingly) randomly crash on the ends of turns, or even when I move a unit to explore territory.

*edit* Curiously, the problem stopped when my exploratory gallery I got from sailing got killed.

Other points of note, Irrigation is natural in the landscape now? It seems as though I need no lakes or rivers nearby for there to be fresh water.

- Some of the civics seem wonky, as in vassalage I noticed has a vastly different description that pops up when you research the tech compaired to its civics page entry

 

[JosEPh_II]

Sounds like two versions of Rom competing against each other.

Do you have 2.6Full as the base and then patched directly with 2.7test1? And that in the BtS\Mods folder the mod is named Rise of Mankind? And that you are not renaming it to Rise of Mankind 2.7?

I have not experienced ANY of the problems you have. I used 2.6Full as the base and then patched with 2.7test1. I'm now into the 1980's AD and it's been smooth sailing the whole way.

Jungles have fresh water so you can farm them without a river or lake nearby.

If your patching process got screwed up somehow or you have 2 versions of RoM in the Mods folder then you will CTD often no matter what size map you are using.

And one last item, I believe zappara advised with 2.7test1 Not to use RevDCM, or BarbCiv or Start as Minor. All these are off by default (iirc) and since they are not active in my game I don't have the problems like you do.

JosEPh

 

[CMKMStephens]

Yes, I deleted the whole folder and installed 2.6, followed by 7.1.

 

[DRJ]

And one last item, I believe zappara advised with 2.7test1 Not to use RevDCM, or BarbCiv or Start as Minor. All these are off by default (iirc) and since they are not active in my game I don't have the problems like you do.

Thats not true. I play 2.7test1 now several games with all options on (even archer bombard and battle effects, 1 religion limitation etc.pp.) and it works very, very fine and stable. Nearly no CTDs if I prevent fast scrolling and having firefox' 10 tabs open or utorrent running in the background, giving my harddisk a hard time [as it's nearly full]).

My advise to any of you who experience longer loading times of turns after a while: save and reload save by opening /my documents/games/beyondthesword/single/savefile by doubleclicking on it while pressing shift. That clears the cache and your turns then load about 50% faster again. Do that every hour or so...

 

[FoulFoot]

I'm currently running 2.63 patched with 2.7 test 1. The game runs fine with any and all options on. The only thing I had to do was copy over the old 2.62 "civicscreen.py" file, since the newer Civic screen crashes on my system. Some folks haven't had this problem, though.

Foul