Version 2.7 discussion

[johny smith]

@Pla5ma

Just wanted to say I like what you have done with the civics screen. And I guess you know about the civics screen in the WoC I worked on. It is a nice approach no SDK changes with yours.

But I have the help text parced in the WoC Lite dll and uploaded it here. So multiline text is split up in pieces. You can see what I have in it anyway.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=8034496#post8034496

It might save you a lot of work. Regardless the civic screen I added needs the new things from Revolution.

I think it would be good to have two screens one vertical and one horizontal.

 

[DRJ]

Today I will provide a new version to Zappara with screen width adjustment.
I will take a look in front for your error but I didnt changed anything from original civics screen in my adjusted screen.
So all routines for selecting an changing civics are the same like in original...

PS: Can you test this one please?

Just tested it and sadly had same freeze error again. Like in the test yesterday after first freeze Taskmanager still works, if I would try to load again, this option would not be available anymore though.

P.S. on the attached screenie look at the cancel/revolution button in right left corner: it overlaps - maybe the cause of the error?

P.S.S. the WoC merge civics changes dont crash...

 

[Pla5ma]

Just tested it and sadly had same freeze error again. Like in the test yesterday after first freeze Taskmanager still works, if I would try to load again, this option would not be available anymore though.

P.S. on the attached screenie look at the cancel/revolution button in right left corner: it overlaps - maybe the cause of the error?

P.S.S. the WoC merge civics changes dont crash...

If you hover over a civic does it crash too? If not than its not caused by my changes.
But i take a look at it when I finished my work today and I´m at home.

 

[zappara]

Lead, Ancient Temple and Obsidian will stay in the mod as long as I'm making this mod - there still some changes coming for those resources in this patch cycle, just not yet implemented them as most of the resource changes are still on to-do list. If you don't like those resources you can always mod them out by yourself

If civics screen is not working properly you can always copy CvCivicScreen.py file from RoM 2.62 and overwrite the one in v2.71test1. That will revert the changes back to v2.62 screen and you'll loose the scrolling ability but the mod should work then without problems.

 

[DRJ]

If civics screen is not working properly you can always copy CvCivicScreen.py file from RoM 2.62 and overwrite the one in v2.71test1. That will revert the changes back to v2.62 screen and you'll loose the scrolling ability but the mod should work then without problems.

That solved the issue. I really liked the old screen better anyways...

 

[generalstaff]

Lead, Ancient Temple and Obsidian will stay in the mod as long as I'm making this mod

I think the issue most people have with Ancient Temple and Obsidian is that they have limited usefulness. Maybe extending Obsidian as a resource for the Jewelers Corp and having Ancient Temple give bonuses with Vacation Resort would solve that problem.

Personally, I like that those two resources were added.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I have played a game with 2.7TEST with no problems It crashed in the industrial era when I gifted a unit to one of my vassels but that could have been because I was running some other stuff in the background

 

[Jabarto]

I think the issue most people have with Ancient Temple and Obsidian is that they have limited usefulness. Maybe extending Obsidian as a resource for the Jewelers Corp and having Ancient Temple give bonuses with Vacation Resort would solve that problem.

Personally, I like that those two resources were added.

Yes, I'm not calling for their removal, but rather their improvement. Granted I think it's a little too soon to be calling out lead, since it was so recently added, but I'm glad Zapp is thinking about new ways to expand those resources.

 

[konradcabral]

Download v2.7test version 1

I tried for one hour to download the file without success.

 

[White Flag]

Hy Zap and you all !

You'll find three little ideas for future versions of ROM :

IMPROVMENTS :

It’s probably time to add to the improvments list , available seven roads and their impact.
That’s the right place, i think !

- cost of moving units
- impact on the performance of field and resources

Those informations are disponible indirectly when you have a look on ressoures with is not the easier way for those who discover this wonderful game.

WORKERS :

There are over 300 units available and, among these, one can cross the 8,000 years of history without change except for his dress, a feat.
It may be interesting to divide this into several single unit, each with a particular capacity like this :
- a farmer
- a breeder
- a road builder
- miner
- Forestry and so on…

Enhancement of the soil is a fundamental part of the game that deserves a more realistic and more sophisticated, I launched the idea in the air hoping that a brave programmer will take it.

MILITARY ADVISOR :

I keep in mind the possibility in the alpha centaury version to see what units were in garrison in each of my glorious cities ; with an appropriate screen I could identify the city inadequately protected and those who were too. It will be great to have this possibility in ROM.
Currently, the small yellow dots on a the little map or review the troops town by town, it's not very convenient.


Kiss !

 

[DRJ]

I tried for one hour to download the file without success.

My first download broke too, the next try worked nevertheless.

 

[Bezhukov]

Am I missing something or is Compass missing?

 

[munky]

i just wanted to toss this in, and apologies if mentioned before (two hours of forum reading and my brain is glossy) but one historical reality that i though you very great and wise folks should think about is:

Canals.

Historically from europe to the united states canals made a huge early transportation impact. roads and rail mooted their usage but i would think working in the ability to make minor canals (such as Foss Dyke in UK or I&M Canal in US) to major canals (Suez or Panama) can effect (1) improved ? (2) improved ? (3) maybe they had adverse affects such as increasing disease ?

i would let me favorite mod folks (aka Zappara ) consider this in more detail but i just wanted to do a shout out on canals as a worker built improvement... the notion of putting two forts together to do the same just doesn't mesh imho. at the least perhaps allowing as many forts (more than 2) to connect could in theory be the simplest way to do this?

thoughts?

reference:

"Canals first saw use during the Roman occupation of the south of Great Britain, and were used mainly for irrigation. However, the Romans did create several navigable canals, such as Foss Dyke, to link rivers, enabling increased transportation inland by water." from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canals_of_the_United_Kingdom

and

"...it allowed boat transportation from the Great Lakes to the Mississippi River and the Gulf of Mexico. The canal enabled navigation across the Chicago Portage and helped establish Chicago as the transportation hub of the United States, opening before railroads were laid in the area. It ceased transportation operations in 1933. from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois_and_Michigan_Canal

 

[johny smith]

I wanted canals in, and never really understand why Civ did not already come with them.

Anyway I just wanted to add this to canal idea. The Grand Canal of China.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Canal_of_China

Just thought it could be a wonder related to canals if the idea ever gets anywhere.

 

[munky]

I wanted canals in, and never really understand why Civ did not already come with them.

Anyway I just wanted to add this to canal idea. The Grand Canal of China.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Canal_of_China

Just thought it could be a wonder related to canals if the idea ever gets anywhere.

in some ways CIV never looked at rivers for their value of transportation... ROM has the Canal tech as really an irrigation tool as opposed to a transportation method (drain peat bog). rivers in general are somewhat ignored other than commerce and trade? bridge building also has its scales - i am thinking of railroad tycoon and the effects of wood, stone, and metal bridges. and ferries? think of the value of the modern ferry - all of these things have a transportation focus.

i didnt know that the grand canal of china is the largest in the world and certainly adds to the notion of canal wonders!

could canal construction be as simple as the ability to make your own rivers? graphically? imagine running a canal through the middle of a worthless desert region? one could also add the horse drawn canal boats as adding ? perhaps as a tech unto itself (Horses req., various Horse techs as pre-req. and then subtree with horse drawn canal)?

ROM is the best version of CIV ever...

 

[johny smith]

Well it would not be that simple to add, but I think the best way would to be have an improvement in a way.

Each canal improvement would give extra commerce I would think, and act like a fort in the sense that ships could travel through it. And then have various stages of upgrading the improvement.

Now I would like something that would effect different types of ships allowed to pass based on what stage of the canal improvement is.

And for the wonder would be neat to give so many free canal improvements.

But again not something real simple either.

 

[munky]

Well it would not be that simple to add, but I think the best way would to be have an improvement in a way.

Each canal improvement would give extra commerce I would think, and act like a fort in the sense that ships could travel through it. And then have various stages of upgrading the improvement.

Now I would like something that would effect different types of ships allowed to pass based on what stage of the canal improvement is.

And for the wonder would be neat to give so many free canal improvements.

But again not something real simple either.

Canals -- are they a worker tile improvement, wonder, and/or city building?

so if it was a worker improvement graphically it would look like a path/road/rail kind of graphic.

question: would a canal have to be linked between cities and or a city and the ocean in order to add its benefit, or just wherever it is put regardless of linkage (like a road doesnt have to be linked in order to kick in its tile benefits)? Methinks like a road...

As a wonder the possibilities are much easier and maybe less poignant for that which canals historically meant... we could easily do the Panama Canal Wonder, and I apologize since my playing time w/. ROM is limited thus far if there is such a wonder already...

If it is a city improvement, my only concern is that canals are connectors that thread between two or more locations so a single city having its own individual canal building just seems to me to fall short of the historical reality of canals... again like a wonder probably easy to do, a canal treated much like a river port building or a ROM glassblower?

to me it has to be a worker improvement... graphically like a road...

your ships concept is fascinating. barges, flatboats, ferries, and when i google the phrase "canal boat" i got "Narrowboat". see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narrowboat. can there be made a unit that only travels on a specific tile? if there are modern canals then any size ship can be accommodated (hull depth - i think for ease assume battleships and aircraft carriers can go through CIV modern canals). expiring for the advent if the railroad advancement would make sense for the ancient canals but not the modern canals like Suez. So there needs to be an age difference and tech kick in for the ancient (think roman canals in UK) to modern (Suez). wow...

by the way, you just made me think if one can do canals, then why not the same thing with superhighways? in theory (and spank me again if ROM 2.62 has this and i just haven't played enough yet to know it) the same worker enhanced tile improvement that works for canals could work for path/road/paved road/highway/superhighway... like ancient canal/modern canal? (btw to me a RR should stop a unit upon entering and exiting to simulate the loading of the RR cars whereas highways could allow on and off same turn traffic in the same way that unloading a boat transport stops the unit for the turn [loading/unloading should be worked into RRs]) .

Ok now i can't shut myself up, and g*d forbid ROM gets over complicated already but distance traveled is time relevant to the progress of that transportation system. ancient canal boats could only go so many "tiles" a turn... and RRs do act like canals (as prior paragraph said, a road becoming a modern superhighway) so a RR should scale up in distance traveled based upon development of the engine itself. just play railroad tycoon. in CIV a RR at day 1 is the same as a RR in the year 2500 but in reality there is steam, coal, diesel, electric, and mag. a steam engine should be limited to lets say 4 or 8 spaces in a turn, whereas a modern diesel/electric could go many miles... such as 24 or 48 in a single turn? future tech mag tubes would be like the old versions of Civ where any connection into the RR means you can move across the continent in a single movement? i haven't thought this out, but distance scale should be relevant to the technological advancement! there is a modern train that leaves California with fresh produce and arrives in New York: "the shipment originating in Delano, Calif., will arrive in Schenectady, N.Y., 128 hours later", see http://www.ble.org/pr/news/headline.asp?id=23905.

thanks for spouting with me!

oy vey... its beer time...

 

[munky]

asi f that wasnt enough i put into notepad this as well:

OH on my wish list? I want an icon for the WAIT command! i use the W on my keyboard all the time (perhaps the single most hit key)... but why is there no icon for the wait command at all? that should be doable!

also and this is cheesy but i want a CENTER UNIT icon in the unit icon row and not the one that drifts off screen like a bubble pop up. i am tired of upper left (into % adjustments) and lower right (diplomacy) accidental clicks while trying to go back to a unit using that bubble pop up... is it possible on the bottom icon list for an active unit to simply put a "center map on unit" icon?

 

[johny smith]

I agree with the roads in principle, but it would probably be too many changes at the moment. I have more ideas of actually using train and automobiles for vehicles to automate transporting things. But all of that would make some drastic changes. I am familiar with Railroad Tycoon played it quite a bit, and always want some type of system similar to RR Tycoon 2 for corporations in the industrial age. Hence why I had thought about the idea, but again I am not working on anything like that at the moment.

I am thinking only a canal improvement, and it would need to be near water or another canal. I need to backup though. I was thinking a little while back and never really tried more to make rivers navigable by boats. The idea I was thinking to keep it simple was to have boats that usually only can use coastal waters could use rivers as well. Then boats that can use ocean spaces could only use the coast and oceans.

Well maybe not the best idea but I thought a simple idea to start with, and the canals basically would act like a river at the first stage and a later stage act more like a coast if that makes sense. Well just simple first I mean then expand on it more later if a stable system was setup.

As for the buttons I do not really know yet, but the good thing with this WoC Lite stuff is we actually hacked the theme file. So to explain simply we actually can take pieces of the interface change them versus just adding buttons later in to it. If you look at the interface files you can see what I mean. But basically if you want a black interface or green or red whatever it can be made and changed inside the modules folder.

 

[2ndimpression]

I would like to see salt pans added as a building in coastal cities (maybe restricted to certain latitudes, maybe even as a national wonder). Salt has been extremely important in history - one of the most important trading goods - and its one of the reasons that the Venetians became powerful and dominated trade in the Mediterranean for number of years. Maybe the benefits of salt could be improved to do justice to its importance?

Coke production facilities requiring Coal could be included as coke was important in the industrial revolution for making good quality iron.

I have always felt that civ was lacking canals too, especially as they played an instrumental role in the industrial revolution of Britain