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Version 2.7 discussion

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Rise of Mankind' started by zappara, Mar 20, 2009.

  1. Nordfeldt

    Nordfeldt Noob Modder

    Aug 10, 2007
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    How about a new event? Future era event: ALIEN INVASION :scan: a mothership lands with a large army of high-tech-nuke-immune-evil-aliens :D
  2. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

    Jan 13, 2008
    St.Petersburg, Russian Federation
    I can easily make any resource icons and static models. I just wanted to ask, are you somehow related to the mod development? Because Zappara didn't ask me to do it, but if he needs it I'd do it fast :).
  3. Revolutionist

    Revolutionist Chieftain

    Mar 28, 2009
    I'm entirely certain that someone has done a beehive model before, for resources.
    Though I think I remember the model's colour being a bit washed out, or the model being a bit too low poly or something for my tastes. But I could be remembering wrong.

    Still, it'd be better as a manufactured resource. Bees aren't exactly uncommon, and can live almost anywhere. Could be a fallback from the 'grain' line of resources for the production of alcohol, if that makes it into the mod as a manufactured one. A sort of last resort if all else somehow fails.
  4. Retrospect

    Retrospect Warlord

    Jul 22, 2007
    While I am looking forward to the next concepts and things to be added in 2.7, I would much rather see some (hopefully all) of the kinks ironed out of the current version. Many of us cannot play the megapack for some reason and some of the mapscripts dont appear to be functioning quite the way they should (some resources not being generated on certain maps etc). If you would like any details on these issues feel free to PM me.
  5. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

    Jan 13, 2008
    St.Petersburg, Russian Federation
    I don't think that "bees" should be a common resource. I mean, common bees are almost everywhere.
    Same for honey. However a national wonder which produces 2-3 exceptional "honey" luxury which can be traded sounds nice. Same for exceptional beer/ale (from grain or whatever).
  6. Big Heb

    Big Heb Warlord

    Mar 23, 2008
    I posted this in its own thread, but it reach more people if posted here. I've been working on a tech tree for quite some time (and it actually is not finished) in order to try and make a tree that is more true to historical chronology. Feel try to take ideas from it however you can. Also, another idea I have is Great Literary Works.

    - Great Literary Works. Basically these would function like Great Wonders but are cheaper to build, provide basic bonuses, and can be built automatically by Great People (mostly Great Artists). They would exist primarily for flavor though and give the player some more historical information about the important works that have influenced our history. I included some ideas of Great Literary Works in the tech descriptions.


    Neolithic Age Techs:
    - Stone Tools
    - Hunting
    - Gathering
    - Spearfishing
    - Ritualism
    - Gender Roles
    - Simple Machines
    - Weaving
    - Large Game Hunting
    - Archery
    - Pottery
    - Agriculture
    - Naturopathy
    - Angling
    - Mysticism
    - Specialization of Labor
    - The Wheel
    - Animal Husbandry
    - Slavery

    Ancient Age Techs:
    - Mining
    - Sailing
    - Priesthood
    - Religion
    - Trade
    - Metal Casting
    - Masonry
    - Chariotry
    - River Transportation
    - Naval Transportation
    - Dualism
    - Statism
    - Wealth
    - Bronze Working
    - Sculpture
    - Horseback Riding
    - Elephant Riding
    - Polytheism
    - Military Training
    - Elitism
    - Statues
    - Horse Breeding
    - Writing
    - Seafaring

    Classical Age Techs
    - Foreign Trade
    - Monotheism
    - Military Tactics
    - Plutocracy
    - Alphabet
    - Aesthetics
    - Literature
    - Rational Thought
    - State Religion
    - Code of Laws
    - Iron Working
    - Athletics
    - Shipbuilding
    - Drama
    - Philosophy
    - Mathematics
    - Politics
    - Civil Service
    - Maritime Trade
    - Civil Law
    - The Column
    - Ethics
    - Meditation
    - Royalty
    - Currency
    - Calender
    - Glass Blowing
    - The Arch
    - Populism
    - Construction
    - Fine Cuisine
    - Uniform Taxation
    - Music
    - Siege Warfare
    - Engineering
    - Imperialism
    - Bribery
    - Paper
    - Satire
    - Canal Systems
    - Infrastructure
    - Concrete
    - The Dome

    Medieval Age Techs
    - Ecumenism
    - Divine Law
    - Gothic Art
    - Theology
    - Feudalism
    - Usury
    - Fundamentalism
    - Monasticism
    - Fiefdom
    - Manorialism
    - Mechanical Advantage
    - Fiat Currency
    - Homiletics
    - Compass
    - Holy War
    - Printing Press
    - Chivalry
    - Constitution
    - Open-Field System
    - Fortification
    - Alchemy
    - Banking
    - Guilds
    - Clockwork

    Renaissance Age Techs
    - Optics
    - Humanism
    - Education
    - Gunpowder
    - Empirical Method
    - Quattrocentro
    - Consequentialism
    - Mechanism
    - Matchlock
    - Astronomy
    - Physics
    - Oil Painting
    - Reformation
    - Divine Right
    - Double-Entry Banking
    - Metallurgy
    - Navigation
    - Chemistry
    - Archaeology
    - Free Artistry
    - Representation
    - Liberalism
    - Leadership
    - Mercantilism
    - Naval Cannon
    - Social Contract
    - Republicanism
    - Flintlock
    - Corporation
    - Medicine
    - Deism
    - Separation of Church and State
    - Juris Prudence
    - Economics
    - Nationalism
    - Replaceable Parts
    - New Model Army
    - Romanticism
    - Enlightened Absolutism
    - Cotton Gin
    - Rifling
    - Military Science

    Industrial Age Techs
    - Scientific Method
    - Thermodynamics
    - Biology
    - Steel
    - Realism
    - Steam Power
    - Manifest Destiny
    - Refining
    - Modern Medicine
    - Naturalism
    - Screw Propeller
    - Industrialization
    - Railroad
    - Explosives
    - Marxism
    - Progressivism
    - State Capitalism
    - Electricity
    - Psychology
    - Combustion
    - Theory of Relativity
    - Agricultural Engineering
    - Labor Union
    - Modern Sanitation
    - Civil Engineering
    - Refrigeration
    - Radio
    - Motorized Transportation
    - Flight
    - Trench Warfare
    - Motion Pictures

    Modern Age Techs
    - Quantum Physics
    - Communism
    - Compulsory Education
    - Fascism
    - Armored Vehicles
    - Assembly Line
    - Mass Transit
    - Automatic Weapons
    - Nuclear Fission
    - Rocketry
    - Amphibious Warfare
    - Electronics
    - Submarine Warfare
    - Plastics
    - Guerilla Warfare
    - Aviation
    - Sonar
    - Machine Tools
    - Keynesian Economics
    - Mass Media
    - Modern Seismology
    - Aerodynamics
    - Naval Aviation
    - Radar
    - Biotechnology
    - Logistics
    - Mechanized Warfare
    - Legalized Gambling
    - Nuclear Power
    - Vertical Flight
    - Modern Naval Tactics
    - Computers
    - Military-Industrial Complex
    - Manufacturing
    - Tourism
    - Jet Propulsion
    - Biological Warfare

    The rest of the Modern Era can remain unchanged and the Future Era is currently being worked on so I left it alone. I think this tree gives a bit more historical accuracy when it comes to how and when different technologies came to be discovered. However, feel free to pick at the new tech ideas and tech reordering and implement them into RoM as seen fit.

    Great Literary Works:
    The effects can be debated upon, but should be more slightly powerful than a building but less powerful than Wonders. Some of them should preferably give bonuses to certain civics (like De re republica to Republic, Communist Manifesto to Marxist, The Inferno to Intolerant, The Gospel of Wealth to Private, ETC.

    Han Feizi
    The Illiad by Homer
    Hammurabi's Code
    Oedipus Rex by Sophocles
    Politics by Aristotle
    Nichomachean Ethics by Aristotle
    Elements by Euclid
    De re publica by Cicero
    Satires by Juvenal
    The Inferno by Dante
    Magna Carta
    The Prince by Niccolo Machiavelli
    Two Treatises of Government by John Locke
    The Articles of Confederation
    The Jefferson Bible by Thomas Jefferson
    The Bill of Rights
    The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith
    Les Miserables by Victor Hugo
    Leviathan by Thomas Hobbes
    On the Origins of Species by Charles Darwin
    The Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx
    The Gospel of Wealth by Andrew Carnegie
  7. Stoklomolvi

    Stoklomolvi Chieftain

    Mar 18, 2008
    I think the fixed borders modcomp should be included as an optional component, since it adds an element that you cannot get rid of once you try it. It gives the "Scramble for Civ Africa" a whole new feel.
  8. Bezhukov

    Bezhukov Deity

    Dec 8, 2004
    As it is, there are so many natural resources that it impedes trade, especially with the vassal spam and each vassal needing their own. Less varieties of resource, more supply of each one, and more manufactured. Perhaps each manufactory could require multiple supply buildings/resources to prevent these from being oversupplied (18 sources of ammunition, for instance - have, say, each filling factory require 3 collieries and/or 3 sources of metal to build). Likewise, BTW, Supreme Court should require 3 district courthouses. Which reminds me, how about bringing back Big Ben from Rise and Rule?
  9. 0100010

    0100010 Prince

    Mar 31, 2008
    I agree the manufactured resource spam is excessive and unbalancing. And the bonuses most buildings that provide a manufactured resource is also excessive. For example, there is no reason for me not to build a glasssmith/ammunition factory etc for the +15% commerce bonus, or the production bonus etc it just make sense to boost the city with the bonus, but then I don't really need a dozen glassware or ammunition resources now do I? Drop the bonuses from manufactured resource buildings, the point of the building is to provide said manufactured resource, no other incentive is needed. And to reduce spam and control total quantity, make those buildings require X number of prerequisite buildings, so there wont be a glut of them.
  10. NBAfan

    NBAfan boss

    Aug 30, 2007
    I think this a good idea. I don't think we need additonal resources on the map as there is enough as it is. I would want to replace obsidian with tea.

    The fixed borders idea is a good one to.
  11. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

    Jul 5, 2004
    Canberra, Australia
    It originally required 2 district courthouses but multiple national and world wonders don't work the same way as buildings. (District Courthouse is a national wonder). Multiple national or world wonders means that anyone can build one at no matter how many there already are. If the limit has already bean reached then the oldest goes obsolete. This is a problem in RoM with the chivalric order buildings.
  12. little_cyclone

    little_cyclone Loyal Civ4 & C2C mod player

    Mar 12, 2004
    The Deep South
    I like the prereq buildings idea, but think we should maintain the production/commerce/whatever bonus for the buildings if we're going to have significantly less of them in-game.
  13. Nordfeldt

    Nordfeldt Noob Modder

    Aug 10, 2007
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    I agree .
  14. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

    Jan 13, 2008
    St.Petersburg, Russian Federation
    You DO need a lot of glassware/ammunition, at least to provide a good trading benefit with other empires. For now often there's just a single salt deposit in the whole world so it makes a monopoly on glass, so you'll need a lot since you can't do most advanced things without glass.
  15. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

    Feb 27, 2008
    California, USA
    If i say no will it make a difference?

    That gives me an idea. There should have a killer bee disaster/event during the modern age where if you have a bee hive building and a laboratory in your city it will cause a plague-like effect of the killer bee outbreak.
  16. zappara

    zappara Mod Designer

    Dec 19, 2003
    With your Tea button and spice returexture I can now announce that Tea has been added to the next version. :)

    I've also added Shrimp resource - someone has been asking for it long time.. just can't now remember who...

    There's already UFO event in RoM and I think that's the point where I draw the line - so no alien invasion events (though I find that kind of event intresting and it could be used in some RoM module ;)).

    I've considered Bee/Honey resource as I've had graphics for it for a year but no, I won't add that resource. But there's many resources without buttons/icons (I think), I just had to make button + icons for Shrimp resource as those graphics weren't available so if maybe you could help, not just me, but the whole fanatics community by making some new resource graphics. ;)

    By the way, see the production lines list from this post. Most of those planned resources lack buttons and icons. They don't need terrain graphics since they are only manufactured resources.

    Here's the progress towards v2.7 so far:
    Spoiler :
    Version 2.7

    - Added: Siege Warfare
    - Added: Ceremonial Burial
    - Added: Fermentation
    - Added: Mounted Archery
    - Added: Map Making
    - Added: Caste System
    - Added: Vassalage
    - Added: Aristocracy
    - Added: Crop Rotation
    - Changed: Paper no longer allow Map trading
    - Changed: Navigation requires Map Making
    - Changed: Monarchy requires Bronze Working instead of Military Training
    - Changed: Monotheism req Priesthood moved from OR category to AND category
    - Changed: Sacrifice Cult requires Mysticism
    - Changed: Democracy requires Alphabet
    - Changed: Sanitation classical tech
    - Changed: Alphabet cost 300 -> 240
    - Changed: Glass Blowing requires Bronze Working (2000BC in Egypt)
    - Changed: Currency requires Writing and Metal Casting
    - Changed: Civil Service requires Code of Laws
    - Changed: Philosophy requires Literature
    - Changed: Agricultural Tools button
    - Changed: Political Philosophy requires Banking

    - Added: Silver Rain event (deadly Nanite Cloud event ;))
    - Fixed: Interstate event uses Highways instead of Roads (thought I had this fixed in previous patch...)

    - Changed: High Walls moved to Siege Warfare
    - Changed: Bath House constructed 25% faster with the help of Lead (pipes)
    - Changed: Sewer System constructed 25% faster with the help of Lead (pipes)
    - Changed: Nuclear Plant requires Lead
    - Changed: Hospital +1 health from Lead (used in X-ray machine, negates 1 unhealthiness from Lead)
    - Changed: Supermarket +1 happiness from Tea
    - Changed: Bazaar +1 happiness from Tea
    - Changed: Fisherman's Hut +5% food with Shrimp
    - Changed: Harbor +1 health with Shrimp
    - Changed: Port +1 health with Shrimp
    - Changed: Commercial Port +1 health with Shrimp
    - Changed: International Port +1 health with Shrimp
    - Changed: Sid's Sushi Restaurant +1 health with Shrimp, +4% food with Shrimp

    Great Wonders
    - Changed: Pyramids moved to Ceremonial Burial (requires also Masonry)
    - Changed: Apostolic Palace requires Papacy

    - Changed: Catapult units moved to Siege Warfare
    - Changed: Horse Archer units moved to Mounted Archery, upgrades only to Cuirassier
    - Changed: Elephant rider str 8->5 (still effective against Mounted units with its 50% vs. mounted bonus)
    - Changed: War Elephant units str 11->8
    - Changed: Trade Caravan is now national unit, max 5 at a time
    - Changed: Freight is now national unit, max 5 at a time

    - Added: Lead
    - Added: Tea
    - Added: Shrimp
    - Changed: Salt unique range 5->3, placement order 5 -> 2
    - Changed: Gold placement order 5->2, can appear on jungle/forest hill plot
    - Changed: Silver placement order 5->2
    - Changed: Ivory placement order 5->3, appearance 40->100

    - Added: Geothermal Factory (not yet assigned to tech or to worker actions)
    - Changed: Mine can extract Lead
    - Changed: Shaft mine can extract Lead
    - Changed: Apple Orchard moved to Fermentation
    - Changed: Olive Orchard moved to Fermentation
    - Changed: Plantation works on Tea
    - Changed: Fishing Boats works on Shrimp
    - Changed: Farm initial food bonus +1 food (was +2), gains +1 food from Crop Rotation tech

    - Changed: Hellenism founded with Aesthetics
    - Changed: Kemetism founded with Ceremonial Burial

    - Added: OOSLogger (for logging Out of Sync errors in multiplayer games)
    - Changed: Tech screen can display more techs vertically, each era's techs shown with different colors

    - Changed: Caste enabled with Caste System tech
    - Changed: Vassalage enabled with Vassalage tech
    - Changed: Nobility enabled with Aristocracy tech

    - Added: Tea plantation defines
    - Added: Geothermal Factory defines

    - Changed: Cart Path does not give extra moves, only connects to resources
    - Changed: Road 2 moves (3 after tech bonus)
    - Changed: Paved Road 3 moves
    - Changed: Highway 4 moves (6 after tech bonuses)

    Also found out a way to test civics through debug messages as seen in the attached pic. Higher value means that AI more likely considers to change its civics to that one. This should help in efforts to balance civics better. Note that those values changes throughout the game, depending on various situations like wars etc.

    Attached Files:

  17. reconverse

    reconverse Chieftain

    Jan 31, 2008
    Tea: GREAT!
    Shirmp: nice, flavour wise

    Good call!

    Exciting! Looking forward to the new version!

  18. Dave_Oz

    Dave_Oz Chieftain

    Jan 12, 2009

    yes..... YES
  19. zappara

    zappara Mod Designer

    Dec 19, 2003
    It'll probably take months still to make the new version. Changing early techs is relatively fast process as most of the stuff is already there but totally new future era is going to take lots of time since most of the stuff has to be made from scratch.
  20. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

    Jan 13, 2008
    St.Petersburg, Russian Federation
    I'd avoid alien invasions... Or make them a component. When I peacefully live on my continent guarded by submarines and nuke everyone else I don't want some green hippies falling from above :D. But as an option it can be funny.

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