I have no idea of this is possible, but I'd like to have the option to re-assign the xp for a unit once I upgrade it. That way I can have a spearman with 3 melee promotions, later promote him to a pikeman with three str promotions, and later to a rifleman with a str, a medic, and a city guard promotion. Again, don't know if it's possible, but it certainly would make units more useful over the long term.
Version 2.8 discussion
- Thread starter zappara
- Start date
Galacticat42
Drifting through space, lost
I just thought of something. Instead of having an entirely different map, it could be possible to have an event trigger a terrain change using the world builder's map reload to make another random terrain. This specific event (like UN decision for a global hegemony OR after global conquest) will also activate the other terrain, making the land/water terrain not appear and after a couple dozen lines/entries in the eventmanager, XML and map files, you have a space colonization game.
Schwarzbart
Prince
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2009
- Messages
- 528
I have some problems how the upgraded Buildings work right now because the Event System dont work with the Upgraded Buildings (I.E. Habor get Bonus but Port not) also the Upgrade system dont takes over the Bonus of the Racial Buildings. So it would nice if 2.8 could fix some of this.
Charcoal and peat were widely used. Coal less so.
To add my crazy idea to the pile - environmental change. Set up a climate system that changes tiles. Cold periods could lead to deforestation, to grassland becoming plains then tundra, hot periods could lead to more flood plains, marshland, and flooded coastal tiles.
aender
Warlord
i would say please not this is a game representing a couple thousand years of civilizations progress not a world similator and there are things that change the tiles due to other factors
Afforess
The White Wizard
That's a good idea. We could set up a system of possible periods that can occur and the game would randomly choose one and apply it for a 250-400 turn period. I know tile changes can be done with python, so theoretically, Zappara could implement it.
For example:
Ice Age
- Tundra and Ice flows tiles spread toward the equator.
Planetary Warming
- Tundra and Ice flows tiles remain only near the poles.
- Equator tiles may turn to desert
- Grass may turn to plains
- Plains may turn to desert
- Existing desert may expand
Rising Seas
- Sea levels rise, in particular, flooding "flood plains" tiles and river deltas
- Islands with only grass turn to coast, islands with hills turn to grass, peaks to hills.
I'm sure there are other things too, I was just writing down what came to the top of my head.
Which made me think. Shouldnt RoM start around 10.000BC instead of 6000BC.
I've been reading a lot of wiki's since I started modding and most of the early techs was actually long before 6000BC.
NCC1017spock
Warlord
Oh wow, I have a boat load of Ideas, sadly I cant mod, so I dont want to look like a jerk with a huge list when I cant really do anything. Its so cool to talk to you guys, I have played all your stuff (sorry for the could 9 moment here, but this is like an honor to talk to you guys, best mod makers I have ever seen)....
so anywhos, I was thinking about space, and space programs. Like if you could have a space program not related to winning the game? Where you build space shuttles, and rockets, like regular units. With a limit to how many you can have of course. I have a whole power-point doc. filled with this, and its all lined up and I can explain it, if you guys want I can post it here and show you what I was thinking?
so anywhos, I was thinking about space, and space programs. Like if you could have a space program not related to winning the game? Where you build space shuttles, and rockets, like regular units. With a limit to how many you can have of course. I have a whole power-point doc. filled with this, and its all lined up and I can explain it, if you guys want I can post it here and show you what I was thinking?
os79
Deity
As I was modding AAranda's Ram unit, I started to realize that it was too close to catapults. Then I tried to figure what tech and I decided on Bronze Working because it was the first time in-game people start to chop forests. But!? How the heck did the people make cart roads through the forests before! In additions, how did they make the wheels? Then to add to confusion, how did they make stable place for pottery working. Then and so on the story goes.
Well, what about putting chopping forest at Wheel tech or even just delete tech req for chopping at all because it is madly difficult to place chopping in any of early techs without rendering other techs awkward. For example, fishing did had wood. I realize that there might had been fallen or broken wood laying around for rafts... But... You might see how it is silly.
But in final analysis, chopping concept needs to be radically changed because this is a mod attempting to be realistic as possible. Now I realize there is gameplay issue so this proposition of mine might fizz out. If so, I will understand but will still giggle at the ridiculousness of chopping forest long after chariots are attacking and conquering cities!
Well, what about putting chopping forest at Wheel tech or even just delete tech req for chopping at all because it is madly difficult to place chopping in any of early techs without rendering other techs awkward. For example, fishing did had wood. I realize that there might had been fallen or broken wood laying around for rafts... But... You might see how it is silly.
But in final analysis, chopping concept needs to be radically changed because this is a mod attempting to be realistic as possible. Now I realize there is gameplay issue so this proposition of mine might fizz out. If so, I will understand but will still giggle at the ridiculousness of chopping forest long after chariots are attacking and conquering cities!
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
As I was modding AAranda's Ram unit, I started to realize that it was too close to catapults. Then I tried to figure what tech and I decided on Bronze Working because it was the first time in-game people start to chop forests. But!? How the heck did the people make cart roads through the forests before! In additions, how did they make the wheels? Then to add to confusion, how did they make stable place for pottery working. Then and so on the story goes.
Well, what about putting chopping forest at Wheel tech or even just delete tech req for chopping at all because it is madly difficult to place chopping in any of early techs without rendering other techs awkward. For example, fishing did had wood. I realize that there might had been fallen or broken wood laying around for rafts... But... You might see how it is silly.
But in final analysis, chopping concept needs to be radically changed because this is a mod attempting to be realistic as possible. Now I realize there is gameplay issue so this proposition of mine might fizz out. If so, I will understand but will still giggle at the ridiculousness of chopping forest long after chariots are attacking and conquering cities!
While people did chop wood for buildings, boats and so forth early, the logic for placing it with bronze working was that until then it was too hard to clear huge amounts of forest without burning it down. Then along came good axes any you got wood from the clearing as well as the land. I think this was mentioned somewhere in Civ 2
Afforess
The White Wizard
While people did chop wood for buildings, boats and so forth early, the logic for placing it with bronze working was that until then it was too hard to clear huge amounts of forest without burning it down. Then along came good axes any you got wood from the clearing as well as the land. I think this was mentioned somewhere in Civ 2
Ah, but you inadvertently brought up a good point. Perhaps we should allow workers to "burn" the forests down for no production bonus, but it removes the forest. It would be useful for very early starts, and unlock those resources trapped by forests. It could be a new action for workers.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
What resources are trapped by forests? Oh, do you get fermentation before bronze working, I always research them in the other order because of this
os79
Deity
While people did chop wood for buildings, boats and so forth early, the logic for placing it with bronze working was that until then it was too hard to clear huge amounts of forest without burning it down. Then along came good axes any you got wood from the clearing as well as the land. I think this was mentioned somewhere in Civ 2
Using that logic, I will put Masonry as a prereq for the ram then. I will playtest and play around with costs, strengths, and bombardment strength to bring it to spearman and archer age of warfare level.... That will be questions for another forum thread
.Thanks for clarifying up the chopping logic.
I like the idea of burning forrests (no im not a pyromaniac 
)
@ os79
How about making the Ram break fortifications only (like in my warlords mod). A ram doesnt really have colletoral damage or damage units. The primary reason (and much needed element) for a siege weapon in early eras is to break citywalls/fortifications.
)@ os79
How about making the Ram break fortifications only (like in my warlords mod). A ram doesnt really have colletoral damage or damage units. The primary reason (and much needed element) for a siege weapon in early eras is to break citywalls/fortifications.
Nightguard
Warlord
- Joined
- May 11, 2008
- Messages
- 131
Okay, a lot of the comments here have been talking about early era (typically Ancient and Classical) improvements and refinements, and Zappara made it rather clear that he's looking at improving the modern, transhuman, and future eras primarily with the release of 2.8. Maybe we should try to give him a little bit more help there?
I will admit, I'm a little uncertain what to suggest right now, given that you're still keeping the promotion lines secret.
I already mentioned the info combat promotion line in another thread, and you implied that you're working on something like that already. One other thing I would like to see is that more of the specialized modern era units can promote to some kind of futuristic unit. Guerillas and special forces won't just be phased out of combat tactics. They will likely play significant roles in human conflict for the forseeable future.
With this in mind, I would like to see a few 'low tech' units maintained into the future eras. I use the phrase 'low tech' as a relative term here, of course; we're not talking men with clubs fighting assault mechs or Dropships. The EMP Infantry are currently the closest thing to what I'm talking about thus far. They are designed to excel against the more mechanized units through specialized tactics and equipment.
Other than that, perhaps the modern era can focus on refinements of older era buildings, boasting slight improvements at a small maintenance cost? For example, a Butchery could be replaced in the modern era with a Stockyards, providing a slightly higher food output per available resource, but with a +5% or +10% maintenance increase to represent the kind of infrastructure that the government needs to put into place to make such modern processing systems work effectively.
One last thing I would like to request, and I don't know if this is something that you can do in RoM, or if it's even an option in modding at all. With the amount of modifier bonus you can get to production output, letting 'overflow' production be increased by the modifiers as well is ridiculous. A city with, say, a 50% production bonus winds up with 20 hammers in overflow. 6 of those hammers of overflow are directly attributable to the production bonus. When the next turn comes and all production is boosted again, the 20 hammers of overflow become 30 hammers production, even though 6 of them were already the result of the previous turn's boosting. Is it at all possible to make it that overflow hammers are added to production *after* all the percentage modifiers are already added, in the way that food is added to production without any modifiers for Settlers and Workers?
That's all my comments and suggestions for now. Keep up the fantastic work, Zappara. I'm looking forward to what 2.8 has in store for us.
I will admit, I'm a little uncertain what to suggest right now, given that you're still keeping the promotion lines secret.
I already mentioned the info combat promotion line in another thread, and you implied that you're working on something like that already. One other thing I would like to see is that more of the specialized modern era units can promote to some kind of futuristic unit. Guerillas and special forces won't just be phased out of combat tactics. They will likely play significant roles in human conflict for the forseeable future.With this in mind, I would like to see a few 'low tech' units maintained into the future eras. I use the phrase 'low tech' as a relative term here, of course; we're not talking men with clubs fighting assault mechs or Dropships. The EMP Infantry are currently the closest thing to what I'm talking about thus far. They are designed to excel against the more mechanized units through specialized tactics and equipment.
Other than that, perhaps the modern era can focus on refinements of older era buildings, boasting slight improvements at a small maintenance cost? For example, a Butchery could be replaced in the modern era with a Stockyards, providing a slightly higher food output per available resource, but with a +5% or +10% maintenance increase to represent the kind of infrastructure that the government needs to put into place to make such modern processing systems work effectively.
One last thing I would like to request, and I don't know if this is something that you can do in RoM, or if it's even an option in modding at all. With the amount of modifier bonus you can get to production output, letting 'overflow' production be increased by the modifiers as well is ridiculous. A city with, say, a 50% production bonus winds up with 20 hammers in overflow. 6 of those hammers of overflow are directly attributable to the production bonus. When the next turn comes and all production is boosted again, the 20 hammers of overflow become 30 hammers production, even though 6 of them were already the result of the previous turn's boosting. Is it at all possible to make it that overflow hammers are added to production *after* all the percentage modifiers are already added, in the way that food is added to production without any modifiers for Settlers and Workers?
That's all my comments and suggestions for now. Keep up the fantastic work, Zappara. I'm looking forward to what 2.8 has in store for us.
GyroLeader
Warlord
One thing i would like too see in this mod and in Civ is that Defencive units could retreat battle too, not just attacking.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Zappara,
Does 2.8 contain the Unofficial 3.19 patch?
It contains over 20 "fixes" to bugs that are repeatedly reported here.
You've included the previous UOP for 3.17 in the RoM version that needed the 3.17. Can we assume that UOP3.19 will be incorporated into RoM?
If we add the current UOP 3.19 to RoM2.71 or 2.7 will it break them?
JosEPh
Does 2.8 contain the Unofficial 3.19 patch?
It contains over 20 "fixes" to bugs that are repeatedly reported here.
You've included the previous UOP for 3.17 in the RoM version that needed the 3.17. Can we assume that UOP3.19 will be incorporated into RoM?
If we add the current UOP 3.19 to RoM2.71 or 2.7 will it break them?
JosEPh
os79
Deity
To clarify:
Zappara uses RevolutionDCM's dll and merge whatever else needs to be merged. Therefore, as RevDCM changes in future (already had updated to RevDCM 2.51 and RoM has RevDCM 2.5) Zappara will merge that new RevDCM to RoM.
To me, the shift from one human era to another has always been marked by some kind of technological or intellectual leap that abolishes something that is holding our entire race back. Think of the technological and social changes that were sparked when we started moving from creationism to evolution. So, here are my guesses as to what might mark our in-game shift from the Modern to the Future era. I'll not suggest techs or buildings, since I'm not that knowledgeable about RoM.
Rise of Mankind wonder
Scientists have finally pieced together an undeniable case for our common evolutionary roots and development as a species. Humanity begins to rise above issues of race and nationality while questioning religious dogma.
Effects: + Science & culture, - Religious benefits across all civilizations. Positive effects are magnified for civilizations with governments that generally give its people more freedom of thought and movement, while strongly religious and / or repressive governments get no benefits, all the negative effects, and additional unhappiness factors.
Religious Enlightenment wonder
As we shed the shackles of dogma, religious thinking enters a new era. Conversion and obedience of scripture are no longer central to religious thinking. Instead, Religions begin using science to better understand Creation, in its great quest to understand the mind of our Creator(s).
In the words of Pope John Paul when pardoning Galileo, "Filled with admiration for the genius of the great scientist, a genius in which there is revealed the imprint of the Creator Spirit, the Church, without in any way passing a judgment on the doctrine concerning the great systems of the universe, since that is not its area of competence."
Effects: Requires Rise of Mankind wonder. +Science & Happiness for all religious buildings across all civilizations. -Happiness and increased national rebelliousness for all civilizations with state religions.
Rise of Mankind wonder
Scientists have finally pieced together an undeniable case for our common evolutionary roots and development as a species. Humanity begins to rise above issues of race and nationality while questioning religious dogma.
Effects: + Science & culture, - Religious benefits across all civilizations. Positive effects are magnified for civilizations with governments that generally give its people more freedom of thought and movement, while strongly religious and / or repressive governments get no benefits, all the negative effects, and additional unhappiness factors.
Religious Enlightenment wonder
As we shed the shackles of dogma, religious thinking enters a new era. Conversion and obedience of scripture are no longer central to religious thinking. Instead, Religions begin using science to better understand Creation, in its great quest to understand the mind of our Creator(s).
In the words of Pope John Paul when pardoning Galileo, "Filled with admiration for the genius of the great scientist, a genius in which there is revealed the imprint of the Creator Spirit, the Church, without in any way passing a judgment on the doctrine concerning the great systems of the universe, since that is not its area of competence."
Effects: Requires Rise of Mankind wonder. +Science & Happiness for all religious buildings across all civilizations. -Happiness and increased national rebelliousness for all civilizations with state religions.
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