Version 2.8 discussion

CiverDan1 · Aug 22, 2009

Here are my thoughts on potential minor tweaks, etc,

Tannery: Goes obsolete too late. It doesn't make sense for these continue to act as production boosters very long after factories comes and certainly not after manufacturing plants.

Silver: why do I lose 1 hammer when i convert a silver shaft mine to a modern mine?

I think something need so be done to promote more farms vs cottages early in the game. Farms should give more food then cottage in the beginning IMHO. Right now there is little reason to farm vs cottage until the first +1 farm bonus comes.

JDR · Aug 22, 2009

Love the mod.

My only complaint is the side effects of having the Spearman be the "go to" 1st non-warrior unit. It completely screws any civ with an early mounted UU or with an early counter to archers. It also screws the Mayans.

I think the easiest solution is to make the first spearman a Light Spearman, similar to what you've done with the swordsman. Maybe this light spearman has 3 hps and a bonus against animals, but no bonus against mounted. Something like that would restore the usefulness of mounted early in the game. Then you just need to fix the Quechas and the Holken to make them useful.

If this issue has been raised earlier in the tread, I'm sorry, but I didn't feel like reading all 14 pages. Again, I love the mod, excellent work.

Retrospect · Aug 23, 2009

JDR said:
Love the mod.

My only complaint is the side effects of having the Spearman be the "go to" 1st non-warrior unit. It completely screws any civ with an early mounted UU or with an early counter to archers. It also screws the Mayans.

I think the easiest solution is to make the first spearman a Light Spearman, similar to what you've done with the swordsman. Maybe this light spearman has 3 hps and a bonus against animals, but no bonus against mounted. Something like that would restore the usefulness of mounted early in the game. Then you just need to fix the Quechas and the Holken to make them useful.

If this issue has been raised earlier in the tread, I'm sorry, but I didn't feel like reading all 14 pages. Again, I love the mod, excellent work.

This is a very good idea, I've had a bit of a gripe with the copper resource units for a while now. Previously copper was needed to get axmen and spearmen, but in ROM they can be accessed with stone, obsidian and copper. Now while i completely agree with this, I don't however agree that a stone axe is comparable to a bronze axe in terms of warfare and likewise with spears.

The only benefit of having copper is to reduce production time. What I would really like to see in future versions of ROM is a light axe and spearman that can be accessed with stone or obsidian, then the current axe and spearmen to be accessed with copper.

Bezhukov · Aug 23, 2009

Retrospect said:
This is a very good idea, I've had a bit of a gripe with the copper resource units for a while now. Previously copper was needed to get axmen and spearmen, but in ROM they can be accessed with stone, obsidian and copper. Now while i completely agree with this, I don't however agree that a stone axe is comparable to a bronze axe in terms of warfare and likewise with spears.

The only benefit of having copper is to reduce production time. What I would really like to see in future versions of ROM is a light axe and spearman that can be accessed with stone or obsidian, then the current axe and spearmen to be accessed with copper.

The purpose of the early spear is to give you something against marauding barb archers/overeager AI attacks before bronze. So perhaps call him a "champion" or something (an especially adept warrior) without special bonuses against particular units (as he does make early mounted units a little silly) but with a penalty attacking cities.

JosEPh_II · Aug 23, 2009

This issue has arisen twice before iirc. If the proposed changes are accepted we will actually be going back to a former RoM version (2.0 I think).

We've had complaints that this unit is too strong this one too weak. So they get changed/balanced. Then several versions later the complaints start that now the changed units make these (former too strong units) weak and ineffective. Maybe it's just refinement? Or maybe it's overreaction? I don't know. But the horse unit and elephant have been gelded. Just my observation.

JosEPh

munky · Aug 23, 2009

JDR said:
Love the mod.

My only complaint is the side effects of having the Spearman be the "go to" 1st non-warrior unit. It completely screws any civ with an early mounted UU or with an early counter to archers. It also screws the Mayans.

I think the easiest solution is to make the first spearman a Light Spearman, similar to what you've done with the swordsman. Maybe this light spearman has 3 hps and a bonus against animals, but no bonus against mounted. Something like that would restore the usefulness of mounted early in the game. Then you just need to fix the Quechas and the Holken to make them useful.

If this issue has been raised earlier in the tread, I'm sorry, but I didn't feel like reading all 14 pages. Again, I love the mod, excellent work.

technically (meaning warfare usage) isnt the pikeman the real anti-horseman and the spearman is more of a throwing weapon (one shot) and/or hand weapon (stabbing and parrying) at this stage? this would follow your comment on "no bonus against mounted"? :crazyeye:

Afforess · Aug 23, 2009

Just curious, Zappara, but why are flamethrowers a siege unit?

aender · Aug 23, 2009

just taking the horse bonus away from spearmen should be enough to equalize.....as they are now there perfect as an early defence against barbs any weaker and raging barbs would obliterate us

AluminumKnight · Aug 23, 2009

JDR said:
Love the mod.

My only complaint is the side effects of having the Spearman be the "go to" 1st non-warrior unit. It completely screws any civ with an early mounted UU or with an early counter to archers. It also screws the Mayans.

I think the easiest solution is to make the first spearman a Light Spearman, similar to what you've done with the swordsman. Maybe this light spearman has 3 hps and a bonus against animals, but no bonus against mounted. Something like that would restore the usefulness of mounted early in the game. Then you just need to fix the Quechas and the Holken to make them useful.

If this issue has been raised earlier in the tread, I'm sorry, but I didn't feel like reading all 14 pages. Again, I love the mod, excellent work.

Completely agree. When I first booted up this mod, I wanted to play the Egyptians, after looking through some of the main changes and such. Little did I know that War Chariots would be basically useless against AI opponents (barbs tend to use archers more). Instead, I did some more extensive research, and now my Polynesian Koa (gogo Civ add-on pack) dominate the stone age battlefield.

I would also like to say that this mod is really good

I'm enjoying it thoroughly.

Chibiabos · Aug 23, 2009

Sorry if someone already mentioned this, but as I ranted in a new thread, there's confusion between "+" and "-" unhappy faces in civics. Caste system, for instance, says "- 2

" in your largest cities, which would make me think it reduces the

(unhappy faces) ... but it actually increases it! (I checked after being unable to figure out why my cities were suddenly becoming unhappy when I chose various civics to reduce unhappiness). Either the descriptions need to be changed from - to + if increasing unhappiness is the intended effect, or the programming needs to be fixed if they are actually supposed to reduce unhappiness, because they do the exact opposite of what the civic descriptions say at this point!

aender · Aug 23, 2009

not positive on this but i believe the yellow faces aree haappiness and red are war weariness

aender · Aug 23, 2009

ok i got a problem, i been using the map script planet generator cause i like the ability to set how many tiles of ocean between continents and for that matter number of continents goes well beyond the 6 rom custom continents goes, and up till now i havint noticed any problems with it but playing around in world builder i noticed rom adds more then just new resources but also new terrain types which this script does not use and i havint a clue how to make it do so....can someone do so?

aaarrrggghhhh why does every map script have to be so different
i been working on this for idk hours now and well i got it to generate marshs....everyone has a forest on it tho.lol....and no peat bogs
here is the zip if someone else wants a shot...minus my changes of course no sense in uploading an incomplete mess

aender · Aug 23, 2009

update on the above post

i got marshes now and peat bogs but peatbogs occur more on grass then marsh and no bonuses on marshs yet either

2nd update:

marshes and peat bogs workin but now its neglecting forests
it also has marshes on hills which i dont see a way to stop that but they are far and few...if i cant get this i hope someone who knows what there doing tries cause it is the best map script i've seen

i_diavolorosso · Aug 24, 2009

@Zap
Do you ever check next war tritium mod??It has a very nice civilization flag(actually it isn't a flag, it's somekind of er....emblem)
I don't know who's the author of the flag, but it could be from civgold/VD, because NW tritium is basically civgold+nextwar+VD+ some modcomp.

aender · Aug 24, 2009

ok i got that map script to do marshes and swamps, never got the storms to be there on start up tho....not and also have the forests....but they do appear threw the ages like normal just not there to begin with......i'm gonna load it here so anyone who wants can have and improve.....also i take no credit for the script myself it was done by..well i forgot his name but he gets all credit i just added a terrain and feature to it

like i said before it seems to be best script out there for customizing a world to your likings and now it has marshes

edit if you d/l the file when it said for rom dont use......when i changed the name it no longer gave the options so here is the version to use with rom..without the rom in name

zappara · Aug 24, 2009

Just a quick post about the current patch notes:

Spoiler :

Adding BUG 4.0 caused some small issues with python but currently only the new religion screen is bugged as it can't handle more than 7 religions (no scrolling) and I can always revert back to the old version if I can't get this new screen to work - BUG team knows about this issue so they might find a fix for it as well.

Still things to change/add etc but at least these notes can get you discuss about the changes. Let's see what I can do in month...

CivEikka · Aug 24, 2009

Looking good, though are you planning to nerf the feudal civic? (+1food/+2commerce per farm +20%hammers in capital). Because there is no need to be in proletariat when the feudal comes in play. Also the religion civics could be given more rebelliouness from different religions (expect secular*/folklore)

*Little rebelliouness would be realistic though.
Btw what is the scientific victory?

leo. · Aug 24, 2009

-60% gold for communism civic? makes it unusable imho.. way too much without any new benefits

Subaru WrXxX · Aug 24, 2009

@ Zap

This is a bit off topic here but reading thru the last 20 or so posts in the other topic left me confused & u seem to frequent this post more so I'll try here. I saw somewhere that u recommended playing w/ Revolutions off because of problems etc, is that still true? It may of been for a previous RoM release but not sure, thanks.

NBAfan · Aug 24, 2009

@Zappara, what exactly is the Scientific victory? What are you planing to do with the wool resource? I posted this earler but it was buired by the axe discussion.

I think the Light Swordsman needs a counter. How about giving the Axmen a 25% bonus against Light Swordsman. What is the purpose of the Arena? Except for its 1xp for melee units it is just like another colosseum.

Version 2.8 discussion

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