[NFP] Vietnam Discussion Thread

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

Having some feels with the civ, here is what I found:
- The extra yields from buildings is a trap in the first few playthroughs and for new players, cuz new players normally want to do everything to leverage every possible bonus they have without taking into account if that serves the path they are going or if the investment is worth the outcome. The two specialty districts I prioritize as Vietnam are Holy Sites (cuz HS has all of its buildings unlocked in Classical), and Campuses (for a little bit of science to get my elephants). What I haven't thought of is a Shrine is 70 production, a Library is 90 production, they are both extremely expensive for just 1 culture when placed on woods. You know what gives you a huge amount of culture for much less? Your unique district! We have talked about this district so much but I guess since it is an Encampment you don't have the reflex to build it early after 4 years of playing it so differently. Even after the cost scales with your civic/tech progression, it is still cheaper than buildings in the first 2 eras.
- Every city I only build Thanh, Campus and Holy Site. I prioritize the adjacency of Campuses over Holy Sites, since Thanh will take care of culture output already very well, Campuses will take care of science. Since it is really easy to beeline Machinery but much harder to reach Medieval Faires and Mercenaries, you culture should outpace your science. No need to build buildings, except for maybe one Shrine for a religion. If you place these 3 districts in a triangle (which is simple, you just need to find 2 features that are next to one another to put down HS and C), you will get quite a lot.
- I still chop like normal, especially woods. VN has tier 1 feature bias, so I always have more features than I need. Woods can easily be replaced later, so I don't think much about chopping all the ones I don't need.
- When you get Medieval Faires, bring builders with your elephants and place down woods in neutral territory next to enemy borders. When you manage to get 1 city, put down woods inside the newly conquered city next to the border of the next city. Feudalism is a prerequisite of Medieval Faires so your builders should have 5 charges.
- I pick Earth Goddess as the pantheon. VN's early appeal is often terrible because of rainforests and marshes, but can be very high after putting down woods everywhere. I guess Sacred Path + Work Ethics may be good too.

I think in terms of Cultural Vic, they are one of the best, not because they can get there as fast as Kristina, but because they are so tough to crack compared to other cultural civs that there isn't much you can do about them. For other cultural civs, if they are getting away with the game, just invade them, they have maybe 1 defensive mechanism, but nowhere near VN where all 4 bonuses can be used defensively.

 

[Mesix]

It looks like Vietnam only got one Achievement. Earlier leaders had the "wing the game as leader" achievement plus one additional "while playing as..." type achievement on Steam.

 

[Disgustipated]

My cultural victory with Vietnam came very easy. I wasn't even trying for it. I was originally trying for science victory. I feel like this civ might be a little to OP regarding cultural victory.

Although a post above says they are more difficult than expected. Maybe part of the problem was me conquering and settling an entire continent (on huge size map). Which brings up another point. They are fairly competent offensively, not just defensively. Although it helps I chose a wet world option.

 

[Andrew Johnson [FXS]]

Although a post above says they are more difficult than expected. Maybe part of the problem was me conquering and settling an entire continent (on huge size map). Which brings up another point. They are fairly competent offensively, not just defensively. Although it helps I chose a wet world option.

<Roosevelt and Kublai scratch beards in thoughtful contemplation.
Jayavarman leaps up and down shouting I TOLD YOU THAT ALREADY>

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

<Roosevelt and Kublai scratch beards in thoughtful contemplation.
Jayavarman leaps up and down shouting I TOLD YOU THAT ALREADY>

You forgot Catherine de Medici.

 

[Basajaun]

Are we sure those easy culture victories are thanks to Vietnam, or thanks to the monopolies insane boost to tourism? I dont mean to sound like a whiner but the Thanh doesnt give culture unless adjacent to another district, meaning more previous investment required. And if you want to boost the Thanh as much as possible, you have to sacrifice adjacency bonuses for the other districts.
My feeling is that they are difficult to lose with, but slow to win with. Other civs abilities feel more impactful to me for tourism. The Maoris Marae is a similar themed approach, but far stronger and faster+easier to setup for example.

 

[enKage]

I just run a game and I am shocked how poweful scientific civ it is. Easy culture allows to progress through civic tree to unlock governments early, but the fact it is so easy to get +4/+5/+6 adjecency bonus to most campuses (as you can basiccaly have both adj from rainforest and district at the same time) is devastating. Korea / Japan tier in scientific game IMO.

 

[iammaxhailme]

Yeah, I think Vietnam will actually be quite good for science and religious victory, becuase you can get science adjacency from rainforest/faith from sacred path pantheon AND district adjacency bonuses at the same time

 

[Leucarum]

Yeah, I think Vietnam will actually be quite good for science and religious victory, becuase you can get science adjacency from rainforest/faith from sacred path pantheon AND district adjacency bonuses at the same time

I hadn't considered a religion game yet and hence sacred path. Prerty nice that they'd get some incidental bonuses to science and culture while going religious....

 

[8housesofelixir]

I just run a game and I am shocked how poweful scientific civ it is. Easy culture allows to progress through civic tree to unlock governments early, but the fact it is so easy to get +4/+5/+6 adjecency bonus to most campuses (as you can basiccaly have both adj from rainforest and district at the same time) is devastating. Korea / Japan tier in scientific game IMO.

Seems that instead of a turtle culture civ we have a turtle generalist civ.

And if following this logic, Vietnam may be considered a hyper-generalist: They just have bonuses towards almost all the victory types. (Adjacency for Science Victory, UD and tree-planting for Culture Victory, combat strength for Domination Victory, and that combat strength can apply to Religious Combat as well.)

 

[walkerjks]

Are we sure those easy culture victories are thanks to Vietnam, or thanks to the monopolies insane boost to tourism? I dont mean to sound like a whiner but the Thanh doesnt give culture unless adjacent to another district, meaning more previous investment required. And if you want to boost the Thanh as much as possible, you have to sacrifice adjacency bonuses for the other districts.
My feeling is that they are difficult to lose with, but slow to win with. Other civs abilities feel more impactful to me for tourism. The Maoris Marae is a similar themed approach, but far stronger and faster+easier to setup for example.

Yep. I think monopolies are messing with people for a bit. Absent monopolies, Vietnam is a 2nd tier cultural civ. And as I said, I haven't tried to abuse the early forestation ability yet, so maybe they will move up in my own rankings.

Seems that instead of a turtle culture civ we have a turtle generalist civ.

And if following this logic, Vietnam may be considered a hyper-generalist: They just have bonuses towards almost all the victory types. (Adjacency for Science Victory, UD and tree-planting for Culture Victory, combat strength for Domination Victory, and that combat strength can apply to Religious Combat as well.)

Hyper generalist turtle might be exactly what they are.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Seems that instead of a turtle culture civ we have a turtle generalist civ.

Hyper generalist turtle might be exactly what they are.

At least everyone can agree that they are a turtle civ, literally and figuratively.

 

[greenOak]

I just run a game and I am shocked how poweful scientific civ it is. Easy culture allows to progress through civic tree to unlock governments early, but the fact it is so easy to get +4/+5/+6 adjecency bonus to most campuses (as you can basiccaly have both adj from rainforest and district at the same time) is devastating. Korea / Japan tier in scientific game IMO.

I think science is their strongest win condition. Pretty much anything that gives early culture without taking up a district slot just screams science victory.

 

[Finvola]

I still haven't finished my game yet. I play on marathon and I ended up restarting on a wet map. My original save also had all modes disabled, but I turned SS, Heroes, and Corporations on for a little extra fun on the restart. I'm currently in the lead for culture, but I've got science for backup. I think the Inca have a bit of a lead over me right now but I should be able to overtake them. I had an early attempted rush from Kongo and I ended up capturing their second city and stealing their settler, then took their final city/capital at the start of the Classical era. Sumeria, India, and Australia keep trying to settle near me, but the cities ended up flipping to me. I'm not really sure what kind of victory I'll get. If culture takes too long then I'll switch to science. I thought Australia would be more of a pain and would early war dec me too but he never seemed to recover from rampant barbs at the start. It looks like they razed some of his cities and he has almost no units. It can go either way. I've only claimed one hero so far but I just found Maui and Anansi recently.Hopefully I can claim them.

 

[anonxanemone]

Hyper generalist turtle might be exactly what they are.

I now know what do name my Rock Band when I play Vietnam.

 

[Finvola]

Ended up with a culture win just as I was about finished with my second space part. Playing them took a little getting used to. I did end up having to plant forests or chop rainforests and replant after because I wasn't able to place districts but they were a fun civ to play. I don't think I'd use them for a domination game. Although I usually turn DVs off, I think that would also be a good victory route for them. In the era I got my win, there were a lot of natural disaster emergencies. I think there were 4 in that one era so there was plenty of opportunity to get diplo favor.

 

[beorn]

I see references to not being able to build a city on snow or desert. Why? I thought it was just specialty districts that had to be placed on woods, rainforest, or marsh. But that would allow, say, a desert city to grab nearby resources, and even a harbor if on the coast.

Am I missing something here?

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

I see references to not being able to build a city on snow or desert. Why? I thought it was just specialty districts that had to be placed on woods, rainforest, or marsh. But that would allow, say, a desert city to grab nearby resources, and even a harbor if on the coast.

Am I missing something here?

I think what they are trying to say is that you can settle Cities on Desert and Snow, but considering you can't place Woods on either, you can only place Green Districts, the Thanh, and a Harbor if you're near a Water tile.

 

[iammaxhailme]

I see references to not being able to build a city on snow or desert. Why? I thought it was just specialty districts that had to be placed on woods, rainforest, or marsh. But that would allow, say, a desert city to grab nearby resources, and even a harbor if on the coast.

Am I missing something here?

Yeah, you can do so if you have a good reason, like grabbing some oil in the snow or something. It's just that vietnamese desert or snow cities will be pretty weak, but they CAN exist.

So I finally got up to using the Voi Chien. Two thoughts:

1: Hearing the elephant constantly neighing (is it neighing if it's not a horse?) is kind of anoying
2: These things are super useful. In fact, one thing I realized is that you can kill an enemy unit escorting a settler AND steal the settler on the same turn (melee units can usually do this, but they'll take damage... the VC doesn't)

 

[Pfeffersack]

Yeah, you can do so if you have a good reason, like grabbing some oil in the snow or something. It's just that vietnamese desert or snow cities will be pretty weak, but they CAN exist.

Spamming preserves might help those cities a bit (if the snowy/desert tiles have already decent appeal)

EDIT: Standing corrected here. As Preserves are considered specialty districts, my idea will only work in a very restricted form - you need a legal tile with feature to put them on as Vietnam, so you likely can reach a lot of desert/snow tiles with this approach. Might still be an option in the fringe areas of tundra/snow and plains/desert.