Vincentz Infinite Projects [VIP MOD]

Honorable_Pawn · May 27, 2013

Just getting to about Swordsman.

Impressions:

Used to playing at Prince but so I started at Noble. Expanded too fast (as always) but economy tanked. I had to run Trade/Barter/Study economy to just to keep up.

The AI started an attack offshore to the South so I responded by moving my whole army south. But it was a trick (did you program that?) their main force went north. I couldn't make it back in time so I was forced to attack their lightly defended core. At this point, the AI turned around and headed back to its core. It probably could have razed two of my largest cities and put a real hurting on me. Instead we fought to a stalement and ended with a white peace. Ai seems improved but probably would be helped out if it would have sacrificed its core to raze my core. Also, if it could have called in a war ally I would have been done.

In any event, I was just starting to get my economy on track when I was dogpiled. I lost one fringe city that was razed and returned the favor by razing the weakest AI's capital city. I was able to get peace and that's where I'm at now. Severley crippled economy with great industrial era potential ranked about about 6 out of 13 in score. I'm in big trouble if I don't get my economy turned around soon as all this war has me with limited military.

I just need a moment to breathe. :lol:

Anyway, there are a lot of changes to how maintenance is handled. And I really like how they balance everything out. Defintely a strong mod!!

I do have one question for you: I thought I had technology trading on but I'm guessing this mod eliminates that. I was counting on it to catch up. Am I right? If so, I see that there is a national wonder that grants common technologies. I'll have to bee-line for it.

Awesome Mod. I have a slightly older PC but handling everything with no problems. Better than premod in fact.

:goodjob:

vincentz · May 27, 2013

Tech Trading has been moved to Education.
Your best chance to catch up early is stealing tech (which have been made quite a lot cheaper).

The National Library/Encyclopedia Civilization/Communication Network (need another name I think, maybe Telecom Network or National Telegraph Network or something) are imho one of the best features of the mod. As the lower picture shows, there is a serious world war going on, but because of those Projects everyone is almost at same level in technology (some are 3-5 ahead of me and some are 3-5 behind me) but there is no "easy" enemy and no steamrolling longbowmen with tanks.
They make the mod insteresting in industrial/modern era, where vanilla games usually were decided already.

and... AI's DO bring in their war allies

Spoiler :

Gilgamesh and Ragnar joined their buddy Sury after a few turns. I could have handled that, but then Mansa joined the war too, and being just north of me, and with my forces out sailing, I'm pretty much doomed.... If only I can last until a cease fire can be signed

Noyyau · May 27, 2013

1) Vincentz, do you think you could get your own subforum for the mod? This thread is getting crowded!

2) Got some time, finally, so I'm going to start a proper game to test out VIP 0.92
Screenshots of settings and start location. Seems a nice one.

No Venice, of course, but the Vikings are still a mariner culture, so my objectives for this game will be to, basically, own the seas.
Something along the lines of either having trade routes (i.e. foreign commerce) with everybody (if peaceful), or owning/conquering most (if not all) coastal cities.

Who am I kidding, these are the Vikings! Of course I'm going to have to conquer the world :lol:

P.S. I'll also make the Submarines act like Privateers (a really minor xml change), I found out it adds much more naval action in the Industrial and Modern eras. And the AI should realize this, I gave them UNITAI_PIRATE_SEA as well.

jasonmack · May 27, 2013

I was excited to find a new update to the VIP mod.
I've really enjoyed the previous versions of it.

However, there seems to be an issue with the Mod's ability to LAN.
In the previous versions of VIP, my friend and I LAN perfectly. Barely any OCC (if any) and really no issues.

This time - our game isn't even visible in the game lobby. I'm 100% certain it is due to the MOD - and not our computers - as we just finished a History in the Making MOD game yesterday, and a History Rewritten Mod last week.

Once we unloaded the VIP MOD - and went into the game lobby in basic Civ - our games were visible as well. Thus - the mod seems to be the one thats causing the issue.

vincentz · May 27, 2013

Noyyau said:
1) Vincentz, do you think you could get your own subforum for the mod? This thread is getting crowded!

2) Got some time, finally, so I'm going to start a proper game to test out VIP 0.92
Screenshots of settings and start location. Seems a nice one.

No Venice, of course, but the Vikings are still a mariner culture, so my objectives for this game will be to, basically, own the seas.
Something along the lines of either having trade routes (i.e. foreign commerce) with everybody (if peaceful), or owning/conquering most (if not all) coastal cities.

Who am I kidding, these are the Vikings! Of course I'm going to have to conquer the world

P.S. I'll also make the Submarines act like Privateers (a really minor xml change), I found out it adds much more naval action in the Industrial and Modern eras. And the AI should realize this, I gave them UNITAI_PIRATE_SEA as well.

I asked J for the requirements of a subforum, but was told that the mod had everything except posting in the modthread (go a couple of pages back, and it is basically me speaking to myself

)

But recently there have become more and more traffic, which not only makes me happy, but could also open up for a subforum - SO KEEP POSTING GUYS!!!! :lol:

My first mod ever posted in civ4 was Red October

Might bring it back. I also made a modmod called Silent Hunter, where Subs would attack transports first in a stack (basically the primary objective during WW1 and WW2), while if Destroyers were present they would defend against Subs first.

Spoiler :

jasonmack said:
I was excited to find a new update to the VIP mod.
I've really enjoyed the previous versions of it.

However, there seems to be an issue with the Mod's ability to LAN.
In the previous versions of VIP, my friend and I LAN perfectly. Barely any OCC (if any) and really no issues.

This time - our game isn't even visible in the game lobby. I'm 100% certain it is due to the MOD - and not our computers - as we just finished a History in the Making MOD game yesterday, and a History Rewritten Mod last week.

Once we unloaded the VIP MOD - and went into the game lobby in basic Civ - our games were visible as well. Thus - the mod seems to be the one thats causing the issue.

I assume its the 0.92 beta version? If it is then I have a good clue what is wrong. If it isnt..... donno. have to do some testing.

Noyyau · May 27, 2013

vincentz said:
My first mod ever posted in civ4 was Red October Might bring it back. I also made a modmod called Silent Hunter, where Subs would attack transports first in a stack (basically the primary objective during WW1 and WW2), while if Destroyers were present they would defend against Subs first.

Spoiler :

Where can I get it? Or how could I recreate the sub/transport/destroyer dinamic? :eek:

It sounds awesome!
It could only be better if, sort of like spies, subs attacking ships of a civ you're not at war could sometimes reveal their nationality. Maybe with destroyers increasing that probability... aahh I'm dreaming. :mischief:

vincentz · May 27, 2013

Noyyau said:
Where can I get it? Or how could I recreate the sub/transport/destroyer dinamic?
It sounds awesome!
It could only be better if, sort of like spies, subs attacking ships of a civ you're not at war could sometimes reveal their nationality. Maybe with destroyers increasing that probability... aahh I'm dreaming.

Man! did I have to dig in deep to find it

(4 year old thread)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=325182

Its basically a function that was discarded by Firaxis in later updates, though the code is still there.

Now, the first part goes into the Subs. its telling them that if it attacks, then it should attack these first no matter what.

Code:

			<UnitClassTargets>
				<UnitClassTarget>
					<UnitClassTargetType>UNITCLASS_TRANSPORT</UnitClassTargetType>
					<bUnitClassTarget>1</bUnitClassTarget>
				</UnitClassTarget>
				<UnitClassTarget>
					<UnitClassTargetType>UNITCLASS_whatevertypetransporthere</UnitClassTargetType>
					<bUnitClassTarget>1</bUnitClassTarget>
				</UnitClassTarget>
			</UnitClassTargets>

second part goes into the destroyers, telling them they should defend first if stack was attacked by this :

<UnitClassDefenders> (cant remember the right syntax, but i think its something like this)

Code:

<UnitClassDefenders>
	<UnitClassDefender>
		<UnitClassDefenderType>UNITCLASS_SUBMARINE</UnitClassDefenderType>
		<bUnitClassDefender>1</bUnitClassDefender>
	</UnitClassDefender>
</UnitClassDefenders>

------------------------------------

edit : yup, here it is, taken from the default-setting-mod in warlord

Code:

			<UnitClassDefenders>
				<UnitClassDefender>
					<UnitClassDefenderType>UNITCLASS_HORSE_ARCHER</UnitClassDefenderType>
					<bUnitClassDefender>1</bUnitClassDefender>
				</UnitClassDefender>
			</UnitClassDefenders>

so.... should it be a world unit, a 1/civ unit or a 3/civ unit (that is able to attack everyone)

I used to have it as a world unit (only 1 active) and that it needed Kremlin, and that Kremlin HAD to be in a harbor city, but with the Warlords and Privateers, I think 1/civ would be a better match

(Not the original icon, but it looked like this'ish before

Drakarska · May 27, 2013

Wow, nice code diving !

vincentz · May 28, 2013

---------------

I removed sentry (Recon) from stables. Didnt fit very well with either footmen nor ships etc
Added +1 visibillity to Tactics Promotion (the one given from barracks)
Removed +1 vis. (Optics) from Observatory.
Added +1 vis. (Recon) to Bowyer/Fletcher (maybe rename it to Rangers Retreat or Rangers Regiment?)
Added +1 vis from hills
Added +1 visblock from coasts
Added +1 vis from ocean and coast

Hopefully the vis is not all messed up. havent tried it from the beginning yet....

Noyyau · May 28, 2013

Oh wow, Vincentz you're awesome! :love:

I'll try to use the Silent Hunter modcomp, I'll let you know the results. And later on, I'll try to use both Silent Hunter and Warlords in AND, as it's really a shame the warlords were taken out!

Edit: OK, first question: In the Vincentz Mods thread, the DL link points to VIP88, which isn't what I'm really looking for.
So...I'm gonna have to do it all manually?

Edit 2: Doing it the hard way!
So this is what I'm adding to the Submarine and Attack Submarine in unitinfos.xml :

Spoiler :

This is what's added to the Destroyer:

Spoiler :

And of course, to both kinds of subs, also

Spoiler :

Edit 3 : Also, I added flanking attack of subs against the transport ships.

Spoiler :

We'll see what happens. Viking submarines will rule the seas!

vincentz · May 28, 2013

yeahm, the modcomps vanished in the test of times. What is left is evolved into VIP.

Iirc I had some flanking too

and I prepared some nametags :crazyeye:

Spoiler :

vincentz · May 29, 2013

Turn times are around 40-50 seconds

(1880 AD, turn 580, Researching flight / Huge+ Map 18 civ (12 of them at war))

Those are the bad news

The good news is I'm pretty sure I know why

Out of 500.000 lines in the MP log, 250.000 of them is the new randomizer I made.
I just need to move it to where it is activated instead of where it is being defined, as apparently every time a unit is cycled it asks for the randomizer (instead of being, when unit is attacking and damage is measured).
This, I guess, could also be one of the reason for not working in multiplayer anymore (I havent tested though)

----------------------------------------------------

Beachlandings

The "Dont Do's" :

Spoiler :

The game is running great except for my little blunder. It is VERY rarely that I enter this era myself, as I usually change/add/remove stuff so I need to restart or the gamefiles are so changed that the image is skewed, and further progress would be pointless for balancing. So I'm very excited being here now.

While I do have a slight lead now (its been going up and down like a rollercoaster), it isnt bigger than if the germans or persians decided to pay me an unwanted visit, I would be toast, so now its time for Nationalism, protecting my borders, and build an attackforce (lost my old one against Mansa)

On note (to self) : The Inflation hasnt started to kick in yet. Thought I had it starting at around 500 turns, and is almost 600 now. While the inflation would have halted progress, it also kinda balances things, though atm timeline is pretty spot on.

Jpinter · May 29, 2013

vincentz said:
The good news is I'm pretty sure I know why

Out of 500.000 lines in the MP log, 250.000 of them is the new randomizer I made.
I just need to move it to where it is activated instead of where it is being defined, as apparently every time a unit is cycled it asks for the randomizer (instead of being, when unit is attacking and damage is measured).
This, I guess, could also be one of the reason for not working in multiplayer anymore (I havent tested though)

----------------------------------------------------

Both the v0.92 beta and 0.91 version don't work for LAN.

If you could test and get the multiplayer up and running again that would be awesome! Jason and I will play it a lot and give you feedback on balancing and bugs.

Drakarska · May 30, 2013

Ok, weird-o-meter question. On turn 469 I lost all of my active trades with the AI's. Opening the trade advisor shows all of the AI civs are now not connected to trade networks. I had good trades with at least 6 civs for about 40 turns or so, then just poof. Looked in the 'pedia and I can't find out any info concerning this. Is this more Gandalf mojo your throwing our way

Also:

Hey Vinz, just FYI. You have some missing 'pedia and unit text. Warlord keep, and .... crap, forgot the unit. I'll get back to you on that one.

Also, did you change some of the GP awards for being 1st to get tech? noticed now that GN, GP, and others are not popping up if you gain the tech 1st. Just curious.

vincentz · May 30, 2013

Jpinter said:
Both the v0.92 beta and 0.91 version don't work for LAN.

If you could test and get the multiplayer up and running again that would be awesome! Jason and I will play it a lot and give you feedback on balancing and bugs.

Thanks for the report. I'll try to set up a LAN with my wife's computer (maybe I can even trick her into playing civ :lol:

) and work out the bug. Not much that can cause this was added in 0.91, my closest guess would be tech by conquest, my second would be limited religions.

Drakarska said:
Ok, weird-o-meter question. On turn 469 I lost all of my active trades with the AI's. Opening the trade advisor shows all of the AI civs are now not connected to trade networks. I had good trades with at least 6 civs for about 40 turns or so, then just poof. Looked in the 'pedia and I can't find out any info concerning this. Is this more Gandalf mojo your throwing our way

Also:

Hey Vinz, just FYI. You have some missing 'pedia and unit text. Warlord keep, and .... crap, forgot the unit. I'll get back to you on that one.

Also, did you change some of the GP awards for being 1st to get tech? noticed now that GN, GP, and others are not popping up if you gain the tech 1st. Just curious.

Very strange indeed. I'd give it a big 9 on the weird-o-meter. Can u upload a save? Did u use any of the VIPloader gamerule changes?

For the GN/GP 1st. You need to build a Palace first, as they will only go to the capital. Maybe I remove them if I cant find a suitable fix in the sdk.

About the pedias, I think the missing text for a unit, is the early barb warrior, which were kinda experimental. I'll fix it.

Regarding all the missing Strategy and Pedia. Well, I hate myself for whenever I read about the subjects on Wiki, that I didnt cut and paste some of it. Maybe one day I'll create Pedia/Sids tips/Strategies etc for everything, but since its not really gameaffecting, it has been put on hold

Drakarska · May 30, 2013

vincentz said:
Thanks for the report. I'll try to set up a LAN with my wife's computer (maybe I can even trick her into playing civ ) and work out the bug. Not much that can cause this was added in 0.91, my closest guess would be tech by conquest, my second would be limited religions.

Very strange indeed. I'd give it a big 9 on the weird-o-meter. Can u upload a save? Did u use any of the VIPloader gamerule changes?

For the GN/GP 1st. You need to build a Palace first, as they will only go to the capital. Maybe I remove them if I cant find a suitable fix in the sdk.

About the pedias, I think the missing text for a unit, is the early barb warrior, which were kinda experimental. I'll fix it.

Well

, I was going to, but on turn 541 I had trade ops with Pery and Poofy Pants. 5 turns later up pops Cyrus wanting to trade followed closely by Willy. The only thing that changed during that time frame was me building the AP. So, was definitely kinda :crazyeye:

. No worries about the 'pedia, as I know it's a PITA trying to get all that text taken care of. Thanks for the info about the palace, I completely forgot about that req. Good game so far, as I've ran into more twilight zone oddities then in any other game of BTS I've ever played in a very long time.

ok, question to all of those peeps playing this mod. When is the last time you have managed to stay "pleased" or better vs 10 AI's for over 200+ turns? On Mon diff no less?

Noyyau · May 30, 2013

Drakarska said:
ok, question to all of those peeps playing this mod. When is the last time you have managed to stay "pleased" or better vs 10 AI's for over 200+ turns? On Mon diff no less?

Never happened to me! I'm quite unwilling to give random tributes or declare war just because they ask (honestly, why do I have to pay to get them to go to war, but I must do it for free?)
Usually I have one or two "friends" (in the pleased range), and everybody else either neutral or annoyed. And a couple of bitter, "Refuses to talk!", longlife enemies, most of the times at open war.

Drakarska · May 30, 2013

Noyyau said:
Never happened to me! I'm quite unwilling to give random tributes or declare war just because they ask (honestly, why do I have to pay to get them to go to war, but I must do it for free?)
Usually I have one or two "friends" (in the pleased range), and everybody else either neutral or annoyed. And a couple of bitter, "Refuses to talk!", longlife enemies, most of the times at open war.

Yeah, same here. This game has me puzzled. I got reli 1st, so I spammed missionaries to everyone even remotely close to me. The AI's converted and pretty much stayed civil with me. What's really odd though, 9 out of 10 of those AI's are are also at pleased or better EACH other :eek:

, with the 10th being cautious towards only 1 civ (Poofy Pants). The only war action that has happened within the past 300+ turns has come from me, which was a prat/cat rush vs Monty (sorry Monty, needed your gold for my happy faces), and then nothing else. So yeah, this game definitely has Rod Sterling smiling gleefully while chain smoking.

Drakarska · May 30, 2013

Noyyau said:
1) Vincentz, do you think you could get your own subforum for the mod? This thread is getting crowded!

2) Got some time, finally, so I'm going to start a proper game to test out VIP 0.92
Screenshots of settings and start location. Seems a nice one.

No Venice, of course, but the Vikings are still a mariner culture, so my objectives for this game will be to, basically, own the seas.
Something along the lines of either having trade routes (i.e. foreign commerce) with everybody (if peaceful), or owning/conquering most (if not all) coastal cities.

Who am I kidding, these are the Vikings! Of course I'm going to have to conquer the world

P.S. I'll also make the Submarines act like Privateers (a really minor xml change), I found out it adds much more naval action in the Industrial and Modern eras. And the AI should realize this, I gave them UNITAI_PIRATE_SEA as well.

ok, just noticed this in your SS and had a question. How did you manage to get the extra settings features from ROM AND? I noticed you had the MulProd box chk'd, and was wondering about that.

Vin; is BUG compatible with this? Lol, I kind of miss my little BUG icon staring at me menacingly while I'm playing.

vincentz · May 30, 2013

Jpinter said:
Both the v0.92 beta and 0.91 version don't work for LAN.

If you could test and get the multiplayer up and running again that would be awesome! Jason and I will play it a lot and give you feedback on balancing and bugs.

I just tested 0.92 and can confirm it doesnt show up in LAN. I'll try to dissect it and see why that happened.

Drakarska said:
Yeah, same here. This game has me puzzled. I got reli 1st, so I spammed missionaries to everyone even remotely close to me. The AI's converted and pretty much stayed civil with me. What's really odd though, 9 out of 10 of those AI's are are also at pleased or better EACH other , with the 10th being cautious towards only 1 civ (Poofy Pants). The only war action that has happened within the past 300+ turns has come from me, which was a prat/cat rush vs Monty (sorry Monty, needed your gold for my happy faces), and then nothing else. So yeah, this game definitely has Rod Sterling smiling gleefully while chain smoking.

That was the drawback of openborder missionaries. Religions have always held civs together in civ4, which is why I like Limited Religion, as it makes fractions. Though in my current game (with the standard game options) there have been several wars, and a ongoing world war between 3 fractions for the last hundred+ turns.
Maybe its also because I have lots of AI on map (=less space for expansion), which makes them a bit more aggressive.

Drakarska said:
ok, just noticed this in your SS and had a question. How did you manage to get the extra settings features from ROM AND? I noticed you had the MulProd box chk'd, and was wondering about that.

Vin; is BUG compatible with this? Lol, I kind of miss my little BUG icon staring at me menacingly while I'm playing.

The extra features (custom gamecore.dll) is part of the 0.92 beta. I've worked a bit further on it (removed the MP-log filler a.k.a. Collateral Damage Randomizer) and will upload a 0.93 soon'ish. (when I got the LAN bug sorted out)

BUG is not compatible as it is. Maybe I add K-mod, which have some of the features. But tbh, the only thing I really miss is the icons at scoreboard showing attitudes.
The reason for not adding BUG as a base, goes way back where I did some memory testing, and went for the ultra light solution, which btw, still results in the mod being playable on lowend machines on large+ maps well into the modern era without minute long turntimes and Memory Allocation Failures.

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