Vokarya's Workshop: Units

I noticed when starting a game in the Modern/Transhuman Era that Missile units don't require any resources to build. I think there should be some resource requirement for high-tech units, so I'm going to add a couple (you can only have 2 requirements, one AND and one OR, per unit, but the OR becomes an AND if you give it only one choice).
  • Missile: Requires Oil Products.
  • Cruise Missile: Requires Oil Products and Aluminum.
  • Smart Missile: Requires Oil Products and Semiconductors.
 
I have a question about the Berserker, the Viking UU: what's the point of having it start with the Mobility promotion (-1 terrain move cost) if it only has 1 movement point anyway?
 
How about a promotion for spy units allowing them to paradrop?

I don't think this is a good idea (and current XML doesn't allow paradrop by promotion). I think it's a game-balancing feature that Spy units have to approach their target city and possibly be caught along the way. I could possibly see it on Virus units that would be one-shot and only capable of one particular mission, but we would need to do more work than I think is practical to allow them, and I think Virus units would be better off using Missile mechanics rather than paradrops.
 
I know it would require more than xml work - just like in the case of the Piracy promotion ;)
I doubt it would break any balance. High level spies can be promoted the way to never be caught. It should require a lot of prerequisites. So it would be to haste up the unevadable.
Why should I have only 1 "Top Secret Agent" when my other spies leveled up so?
 
I know it would require more than xml work - just like in the case of the Piracy promotion ;)
I doubt it would break any balance. High level spies can be promoted the way to never be caught. It should require a lot of prerequisites. So it would be to haste up the unevadable.
Why should I have only 1 "Top Secret Agent" when my other spies leveled up so?

I never liked the Top Secret Agent unit to begin with, but that's just me :p
 
I don't know if this has already been adressed; but I feel Marines and Paratroopers (both Early and Modern) are underpowered and/or feel a little redundant...
 
I wouldn't mind moving the Explorer into the classical era, but I don't think Athletics is the best choice. Athletics is loaded enough for content and doesn't need more. Alphabet or Iron Working would probably be better. The early Classical Era techs are fairly well stocked with content so it's not easy to find a tech there that needs help.

I don't want to change artwork that comes from original Civ4. I think it's better if we don't have to study every single unit to figure out what it is, and I'd be worried about potential issues from trying to replace existing units. I had enough problems getting the units that I pieced together (like the Lancer and Gatling Gun) to work that I'd be very reluctant to add more artwork if we don't need to.

How about moving the Explorer to 'Shipbuilding', 'Naval Warfare' or 'Paper'?
 
Shouldn't the Janissary also be able to upgrade to Infantry besides Rifleman, just as the Musketeer and the Oromo Warrior do? They are all Musketman replacements after all.
 
I think Hi-Tech Robot looks interesting enough to keep, while Sentinel has zero interest for me. If there's another unit that could fill the spots, I'd be interested in taking a look.

Sentinel is just a blatant Matrix rip-off. I don't like it either.

I agree with Rezca that Hi-Tech Robot is a lame name.
 
I don't know if this has already been adressed; but I feel Marines and Paratroopers (both Early and Modern) are underpowered and/or feel a little redundant...

Any feedback on this point?
 
Sentinel is just a blatant Matrix rip-off. I don't like it either.

I agree with Rezca that Hi-Tech Robot is a lame name.

Sentinel got cut a while back; I think the whole point of including both Hi-Tech Robot and Sentinel was that they were using the art assets originally included with the Afterworld mod (by far, art is the biggest hurdle for any new unit). Any suggestions on a better name for Hi-Tech?
 
Any feedback on this point?

We could increase them a little.

  • In BTS, Infantry have a base Strength of 20.
  • In AND, Infantry have a base Strength of 34. This is a 70% increase.
  • BTS Marines and Paratroopers are both Strength 24.
  • AND Marines are Strength 39 and Paratroopers are 40.
  • A 70% increase in Strength would bring Marines and Paratroopers to 41, which would make them even against Infantry with Infantry's +25% vs. Gunpowder units and no other modifiers. I'd be inclined to go with 42 to give them better odds against Machine Guns. MG's are over twice as strong in AND and are available well before Marines and Paratroopers show up.

The modern versions are also underpowered.
  • Infantry to Modern Infantry increases from 34 to 50, a 47% increase.
  • Modern Marines are 55, and Modern Paratroopers are 58. A 47% increase from the upgraded 42 of the base versions would make them a 62. This will not be as strong as Mechanized Infantry, but Mech Inf is another big step up.

So, regular Marines and Paratroopers can probably go up to Strength 42 and Modern Marines and Paratroopers to 62.
 
I have a question about the Berserker, the Viking UU: what's the point of having it start with the Mobility promotion (-1 terrain move cost) if it only has 1 movement point anyway?

Looking at some of the documents, it was a change made in RoM version 2.81. Berserker replaced Amphibious with Mobility because all Viking leaders had the Seafaring trait which was also granting Amphibious. I don't know if maybe Mobility got a change somewhere down the line.

I agree it doesn't make much sense. However, Berserkers are also +1 Strength over Macemen, and have +10% city attack. We could probably just cut the promotion completely, or roll both the +10% city attack and the promotion into City Raider I. I like UU's to start with promotions because it encourages the player to build as many of them as possible during their window of existence, even if not actually fighting, and units have fairly short windows (especially compared to buildings).
 
Shouldn't the Janissary also be able to upgrade to Infantry besides Rifleman, just as the Musketeer and the Oromo Warrior do? They are all Musketman replacements after all.

Janissary does not start with any promotions. Musketeer starts with Speed and Oromo Warrior starts with Drill I-II. Only the UU's with promotions get expanded upgrade paths to keep them on the build list longer, since the promotions are the only thing kept when the unit upgrades. Otherwise, there isn't a point to keeping the unit on the build list, as the upgraded version of the UU is identical to the base upgraded unit.
 
Looking at some of the documents, it was a change made in RoM version 2.81. Berserker replaced Amphibious with Mobility because all Viking leaders had the Seafaring trait which was also granting Amphibious. I don't know if maybe Mobility got a change somewhere down the line.

I agree it doesn't make much sense. However, Berserkers are also +1 Strength over Macemen, and have +10% city attack. We could probably just cut the promotion completely, or roll both the +10% city attack and the promotion into City Raider I. I like UU's to start with promotions because it encourages the player to build as many of them as possible during their window of existence, even if not actually fighting, and units have fairly short windows (especially compared to buildings).

Cutting Mobility and starting with CR1 makes sense.

Janissary does not start with any promotions. Musketeer starts with Speed and Oromo Warrior starts with Drill I-II. Only the UU's with promotions get expanded upgrade paths to keep them on the build list longer, since the promotions are the only thing kept when the unit upgrades. Otherwise, there isn't a point to keeping the unit on the build list, as the upgraded version of the UU is identical to the base upgraded unit.

Hadn't thought about that. It has its logic seen this way.
 
We could increase them a little.

  • In BTS, Infantry have a base Strength of 20.
  • In AND, Infantry have a base Strength of 34. This is a 70% increase.
  • BTS Marines and Paratroopers are both Strength 24.
  • AND Marines are Strength 39 and Paratroopers are 40.
  • A 70% increase in Strength would bring Marines and Paratroopers to 41, which would make them even against Infantry with Infantry's +25% vs. Gunpowder units and no other modifiers. I'd be inclined to go with 42 to give them better odds against Machine Guns. MG's are over twice as strong in AND and are available well before Marines and Paratroopers show up.

The modern versions are also underpowered.
  • Infantry to Modern Infantry increases from 34 to 50, a 47% increase.
  • Modern Marines are 55, and Modern Paratroopers are 58. A 47% increase from the upgraded 42 of the base versions would make them a 62. This will not be as strong as Mechanized Infantry, but Mech Inf is another big step up.

So, regular Marines and Paratroopers can probably go up to Strength 42 and Modern Marines and Paratroopers to 62.

Completely agree
 
We could increase them a little.

  • In BTS, Infantry have a base Strength of 20.
  • In AND, Infantry have a base Strength of 34. This is a 70% increase.
  • BTS Marines and Paratroopers are both Strength 24.
  • AND Marines are Strength 39 and Paratroopers are 40.
  • A 70% increase in Strength would bring Marines and Paratroopers to 41, which would make them even against Infantry with Infantry's +25% vs. Gunpowder units and no other modifiers. I'd be inclined to go with 42 to give them better odds against Machine Guns. MG's are over twice as strong in AND and are available well before Marines and Paratroopers show up.

The modern versions are also underpowered.
  • Infantry to Modern Infantry increases from 34 to 50, a 47% increase.
  • Modern Marines are 55, and Modern Paratroopers are 58. A 47% increase from the upgraded 42 of the base versions would make them a 62. This will not be as strong as Mechanized Infantry, but Mech Inf is another big step up.

So, regular Marines and Paratroopers can probably go up to Strength 42 and Modern Marines and Paratroopers to 62.

When these changes will be implemented, the Navy Seal (American UU) should also get a strenght boost.
Would it make sense to make it a replacement of the Modern Marine, rather than the normal Marine?
Or give it a bit more strength than the normal Marine and let it upgrade at the Dropship as well, since it is a UU that starts with some extra promotions.
 
When these changes will be implemented, the Navy Seal (American UU) should also get a strenght boost.
Would it make sense to make it a replacement of the Modern Marine, rather than the normal Marine?
Or give it a bit more strength than the normal Marine and let it upgrade at the Dropship as well, since it is a UU that starts with some extra promotions.

I think it makes more sense to make the Navy SEAL a Modern Marine replacement. SEALs are properly Modern Era units, not late Industrial like Marines are.

I think this would be a good UU bonus package for the SEAL.
  • Strength 64 (+2 over Modern Marine)
  • Keep 1-2 First Strikes
  • Keep March and Speed promotions
Does this sound reasonable?
 
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