Vokarya's Workshop: Units

[nionios]

1) How does zone of control promotion work with stealth destroyers?The enemy (deploying a naval unit that cannot see invisible) meets this zone but can't see who creates it?

2) Has anyone ever had his aircraft intercepted during a recon mission?

 

[Vokarya]

With the recent changes to Republic, I think Monarchy has become the default government civic for anyone wanting to run a large civilization from the Classical Era to the late Renaissance. Because of this, I don't think it is appropriate for Monarchy to be a valid civic choice enabling Noble Knights (a choice that is forced isn't really a choice, and the idea is that you have to be running at least one "non-optimal" civic to get the Knights). So I am going to change the Monarchy civic option to the Feudal society civic. The other choices (Nobility and Vassalage) stay the same.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

1) How does zone of control promotion work with stealth destroyers?The enemy (deploying a naval unit that cannot see invisible) meets this zone but can't see who creates it?

2) Has anyone ever had his aircraft intercepted during a recon mission?

Good questions, although I don't know the answer to either of them.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

With the recent changes to Republic, I think Monarchy has become the default government civic for anyone wanting to run a large civilization from the Classical Era to the late Renaissance. Because of this, I don't think it is appropriate for Monarchy to be a valid civic choice enabling Noble Knights (a choice that is forced isn't really a choice, and the idea is that you have to be running at least one "non-optimal" civic to get the Knights). So I am going to change the Monarchy civic option to the Feudal society civic. The other choices (Nobility and Vassalage) stay the same.

Sounds very good

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

Zone of Control, could be thought of as a Zone of Death.

If you venture into the 'Zone' About this ship, that zone of Danger to the ship, you are automatically attacked and killed.

They could broadcast an Exclusion zone, similar to that done by the British during the Falklands war. You can't see the ships, but you 'Can't enter' that zone without being attacked.

Its an explaination, of the situtation, of the game.

 

[Hrvoje193]

Zone of Control, could be thought of as a Zone of Death.

If you venture into the 'Zone' About this ship, that zone of Danger to the ship, you are automatically attacked and killed.

They could broadcast an Exclusion zone, similar to that done by the British during the Falklands war. You can't see the ships, but you 'Can't enter' that zone without being attacked.

Its an explaination, of the situtation, of the game.

I am not sure if ZOC work as it is supposed to.For instance, I met an enemy stack of ships, where weakest one had ZOC promotion.Therefore, I couldn't attacked any of his ships, not even with airplanes based on blocked fleet.I solved it with ground based aircraft, but still...
There should be possibility to attack ZOC stack, and leave zone after all opposing ships are destroyed.
Other issue are ships with ZOC promotion, which negates existing ZOC.First in civilizopedia there is no such information, and more importantly I think if there is ZOC no one should be able to bypass it without destroying ZOC unit.

 

[Lord Bigfoot]

I just had a thought about the Battlecruiser problem. Why not replace it with an Armored Cruiser and move the Battlecruiser up to the spot of the heavy cruiser keeping the heavies but giving it a vulnerability of some degree to any BB unit?

 

[Vokarya]

I just had a thought about the Battlecruiser problem. Why not replace it with an Armored Cruiser and move the Battlecruiser up to the spot of the heavy cruiser keeping the heavies but giving it a vulnerability of some degree to any BB unit?

I can see Armored Cruiser as a precursor to the Battlecruiser in the early Industrial Era, but I am not moving Battlecruiser from where it is now; it has the middle-Industrial Era cruiser slot, and Cruiser/Heavy Cruiser have the late Industrial Era cruiser slot. Furthermore, I am totally against any additional single-unit bonuses or penalties; I think the only effective purpose those bonuses are going to provide is for one player or an AI to use as a club against another, and I'm not really impressed by "realism" arguments for them. I'm trying to streamline things as much as I can, and adding these micro-bonuses runs against that.

 

[Vokarya]

I am wondering if Offshore Platform needs to be a unit as well as an improvement. I think it would be better if the construction of the Offshore Platform improvement would be better off as an ability of the Modern Workboat/Constructor Ship. The only real benefit to separating the two that I can see is that it allows us to put a resource requirement on the Platform. The OP unit requires Steel, and as far as I can tell, we can't put a resource requirement on an improvement. Routes can have resource requirements, but not other improvements, and I don't want to create a separate XML tag just for one improvement. I would be fine with putting a resource requirement on the Modern Workboat; I think Iron OR Steel OR Aluminum would be good. Otherwise, you would fall back on the original Workboat which can only fish.

 

[<Nexus>]

I agree.
I think everyone has steel by the time OP unit is available, so it is rather redundant. Your changes with the modern work-boat are the best solution IMO

EDIT:
I remember there was a promise to split the Tunnel route, so we could have one early tech for coast only, and an other for oceans with nano-tech (or something). How is it going?

 

[Arakhor]

I think the platform should be a workboat thing too.

 

[nionios]

I agree and generally it sounds better that a workboat can build a sea inmprovement as it does with fishing boats etc.

 

[Vokarya]

EDIT:
I remember there was a promise to split the Tunnel route, so we could have one early tech for coast only, and an other for oceans with nano-tech (or something). How is it going?

I can't do anything about that; it would require new XML tags. The code that separates Tunnels from all the all the other route types is an all-or-nothing <bSeaTunnel> tag. We'd have to define separate tags for coastal tunnel and ocean tunnel and then probably define separate tunnel types as well, because the technology for each route type is set in the XML for the code that allows a unit to build the improvement. You can only add an additional tech if you requiring a separate tech to remove a feature as part of the building improvement (examples are Bronze Working to remove forests, Iron Working to remove jungles, and Canals to remove Swamps). This is all more than I am capable of doing.

 

[<Nexus>]

Sorry, maybe I should have addressed it directly to 45* since he said to look after it. I'm just curious whether it is undoable or did he simply forget it?

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Sorry, maybe I should have addressed it directly to 45* since he said to look after it. I'm just curious whether it is undoable or did he simply forget it?

I simply had more pressing issues; this is not on the pririty list. I've been a bit busy lately but I'm still working on the mod.

 

[Vokarya]

I think we should also do the same thing with Extraction Facility; move the Extraction Facility improvement to the Constructor Ship, add Steel or Aluminum to the CShip requirements, and delete the EF unit.

I'm wondering too if we should have Offshore Platform become Extraction Facility the way Mines become Shaft Mines/Modern Mines.

 

[Vokarya]

A couple minor adjustments to upgrade paths that I want to do:

• Archer should be able to upgrade to Longbowman OR Crossbowman. I've started to use Archers in my late-Classical combat stacks and I'd like to be able to upgrade them to Crossbowman. This is something that can be done in BTS and I don't know why it was removed. I will also add a <ForceObsoleteTech> at Feudalism to stop you from building Archers cheap once you can build Longbowmen. Otherwise, Archers will stay on the build list unless you have Feudalism AND Engineering AND Iron, or reach Flintlock.

• Infantry needs a <ForceObsoleteTech> at Manufacturing. This will prevent Infantry from appearing on the build lists of cities that can build Modern Infantry but don't have access to Oil Products for Motorized/Mechanized Infantry. (Oddly enough, Walker Mech has no resource requirements. I want to look at Transhuman units, because we have a LOT of them.)

Edit:

• Trader needs a <ForceObsoleteTech> at Agricultural Tools as well, to prevent you from building Traders once you run out of Caravans. Otherwise, the unit limit doesn't mean as much.

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

@ Vokarya - on the Force obsolete, I've found I can still build traders up to the Modern era, along with Caravans.

one Technique I use it to build 5 Freight, next turn build 5 Caravans, 3rd Turn build 5 Traders. Rush the freight on a build, upgrade the Caravans to freight, rush them, then upgrade the traders to freight, and rush them. On the 2nd Upgrade, I build 5 Caravans, as they are the most senior build and 4th'ly upgrade them to freight for a build rush.

So I've now build 4 sets of Freight in under the time it takes to build 2.

Though with Ultra cheap cash rushing, this strategy is a "redundant cheat"?

Longbows need a force obsolete at Gunpowder, as the Archery range obsoletes, BUT you can still build them till Matchlock, without the extra Experience.

 

[Vokarya]

@ Vokarya - on the Force obsolete, I've found I can still build traders up to the Modern era, along with Caravans.

one Technique I use it to build 5 Freight, next turn build 5 Caravans, 3rd Turn build 5 Traders. Rush the freight on a build, upgrade the Caravans to freight, rush them, then upgrade the traders to freight, and rush them. On the 2nd Upgrade, I build 5 Caravans, as they are the most senior build and 4th'ly upgrade them to freight for a build rush.

So I've now build 4 sets of Freight in under the time it takes to build 2.

Though with Ultra cheap cash rushing, this strategy is a "redundant cheat"?

I'll add ForceObsolete for Caravans as well. You should only be able to build one kind of caravan at a time.

Longbows need a force obsolete at Gunpowder, as the Archery range obsoletes, BUT you can still build them till Matchlock, without the extra Experience.

Archery Range technically doesn't obsolete until Rifling. It does happen that Garrison replaces Archery Range at Leadership, but doesn't give XP for Archery units. I consider that emblematic of the disruption caused by the changeover to gunpowder-based military forces; if you want maximum XP for your units, you have to plan the change by either getting Leadership first and not training Longbowmen until you have Matchlock, or getting Matchlock first but not training new Arquebusiers until you have Leadership and Garrisons.

 

[oldnooob]

ARRRGGGHHH!!!
Would someone please link me to the Information / documentation / Whatever to sea ZOC.

I want to try to understand WHY the AI can successfully attack my stack but I am not allowed to attack their stack with surface ships.