Vokarya's Workshop: Units

[Noyyau]

I had some thoughts regarding aircraft naming and their upgrade paths that I think might be useful to discuss in this thread.

First, I think I saw that Vokarya doesn't like using national specific names, so to eliminate some of those the names below could be used to rename current aircraft:
IL-2 to Dive Bomber OR Fighter-Bomber
A-10 to Ground Attack Jet
P-59 to Subsonic Jet Fighter
OR P-59 to Jet Fighter and Jet Fighter to MultiRole Fighter

Second, on upgrade paths, they don't currently really match how these aircraft were actually deployed. I think a better model for how the planes were actually used would break them into 3 trees ( they could probably keep current unit categorizations) that would be Strategic Bombers (shortened to bombers below) that would be the type that would focus on bombing cities, factories, large armies, Ground attack/Light Bombers/Tactical Bombers that are more focused on taking out specific targets, and fighters:
Bombers: Blimp->Bomber->Strategic Bomber -> etc. (Ie, remove IL-2 from this path)
Ground attack/Light Bombers: IL-2 and Seaplane -> A-10 -> Stealth Fighter (despite the name it is not used in a fighter role)
Fighters: Remove Stealth Fighter (F117) from upgrade path

3rd, and probably the most difficult, is it possible to scale aircraft range by map size, and does it seem like a good idea?

Sounds good to me, especially rescaling aircraft range by mapsize

 

[<Nexus>]

I think something like that is not too different from the catacombs building, if we could make that exploit less frequent. But I still think that catacombs should be axed if we don't find another way to change it. And frankly YAM too doesn't make much sense to me. It might be fun but is there anyone who has ever used it?

Only in test play yet, but definitely would like to use it. So please don't remove it from the mod. At least not as long as you can replace it with something better.

 

[Afforess]

Only in test play yet, but definitely would like to use it. So please don't remove it from the mod. At least not as long as you can replace it with something better.

Remove what? 45* was talking about a hypothetical unit.

 

[<Nexus>]

Remove what? 45* was talking about a hypothetical unit.

Sorry, I was referring to the YAM.
(Edited my post to be clear).

 

[nionios]

Are national units gone?I hadn't internet access for some days and playing now my updated revision game i see that there's no limit for special forces or top secret agent.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I suppose it's a problem with one of the latest revisions, some options have been activated accidentally if you play from an older save. There's an Unlimited National Units option that should have been removed.

 

[Afforess]

I suppose it's a problem with one of the latest revisions, some options have been activated accidentally if you play from an older save. There's an Unlimited National Units option that should have been removed.

It *was* removed.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

It *was* removed.

Have you just removed access to the option or have you removed the whole code? Isn't it strange that some removed options are active for some players?
Or is there something else I'm missing?

 

[Afforess]

Have you just removed access to the option or have you removed the whole code? Isn't it strange that some removed options are active for some players?
Or is there something else I'm missing?

No, I agree it is bizarre. If I could get a save from someone seeing it, I would investigate.

 

[Vokarya]

I asked this a few months ago and no one said anything, so I'm going to ask again: does anyone use the Clerks Master/Servants Master/Victuallers Master units? These are the ones that are available at the Jurisprudence tech. It seems odd that we have two separate sets of guildmaster units, especially this second batch that can actually spread guilds that haven't been founded, so it feels like it's breaking some rules. I don't know whether we should keep them or not.

 

[Arakhor]

Well, no, but that's because I apparently don't know how to create any guilds.

 

[Afforess]

I want to take the axe to a bunch of the corporation stuff. There is a thread on the topic. I wouldn't mess with them unless we come up with a full plan for all the corporations.

 

[Vokarya]

I want to take the axe to a bunch of the corporation stuff. There is a thread on the topic. I wouldn't mess with them unless we come up with a full plan for all the corporations.

If you want to redesign a mechanic from the ground up, that's your prerogative. I'm working with the game mechanics as they exist right now and not worry about what might happen down the line. This happened to bother me, and I don't think there will be any problems with cutting these out if no one is using them.

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

I personally use auto corporation founding.

Guilds don't seem to be founded with that option, though I seem to recall they were auto founded, many months ago.

As I understand it, you need 3 civ's to have the requirements to found a Corp (Auto found)

 

[<Nexus>]

I asked this a few months ago and no one said anything, so I'm going to ask again: does anyone use the Clerks Master/Servants Master/Victuallers Master units? These are the ones that are available at the Jurisprudence tech. It seems odd that we have two separate sets of guildmaster units, especially this second batch that can actually spread guilds that haven't been founded, so it feels like it's breaking some rules. I don't know whether we should keep them or not.

Due to some options (Realistic corporations?) I never even saw those units.

 

[Arakhor]

Ah, yes. I'm using Auto-founding Corporations, so whilst I do have Guilds in my game, someone else owns them and I'm not building any units.

 

[Samson]

I asked this a few months ago and no one said anything, so I'm going to ask again: does anyone use the Clerks Master/Servants Master/Victuallers Master units? These are the ones that are available at the Jurisprudence tech. It seems odd that we have two separate sets of guildmaster units, especially this second batch that can actually spread guilds that haven't been founded, so it feels like it's breaking some rules. I don't know whether we should keep them or not.

I have used these units, because after Jurisprudence you can have 2 cities producing guild spreading units instead of 1, allowing faster spread. I would say this is not a big deal if you wanted to remove them.

 

[Afforess]

If you want to redesign a mechanic from the ground up, that's your prerogative. I'm working with the game mechanics as they exist right now and not worry about what might happen down the line. This happened to bother me, and I don't think there will be any problems with cutting these out if no one is using them.

By your comment, I don't think you understand how the guilds currently work. If you remove those units, you will BREAK guilds for anyone not using the realistic corporations game option.

Break as make the content impossible to use.

Corporations are not like religions, they have to be spread manually by units. You can not remove those units or it will be impossible to use the guilds. The discussion I was referencing is a discussion about the possibility of reworking corporations to be more like religions and abandoning the manual spreading aspect entirely. While the discussion has not borne fruit so far, that end result I would prefer.

Is the confusion cleared up? I don't mind questions, but the way this topic is going hints that most players don't understand corporations, and worse, don't know that they don't understand corporations (Unknown unknown).

 

[Hrvoje193]

Some naval units are displaced in technology tree:
Destroyer - steam, instead of diesel
On the other hand Semiconductors reveals Missile destroyer as diesel ship and Fast battleship which is nuclear ship.
Maybe one of the Destroyers type(early destroyer or destroyer) should be removed, as they are currently both steam units, and there are more Destroyer type units then Cruisers or Battleships in technology tree.

 

[Vokarya]

By your comment, I don't think you understand how the guilds currently work. If you remove those units, you will BREAK guilds for anyone not using the realistic corporations game option.

Break as make the content impossible to use.

Corporations are not like religions, they have to be spread manually by units. You can not remove those units or it will be impossible to use the guilds. The discussion I was referencing is a discussion about the possibility of reworking corporations to be more like religions and abandoning the manual spreading aspect entirely. While the discussion has not borne fruit so far, that end result I would prefer.

Is the confusion cleared up? I don't mind questions, but the way this topic is going hints that most players don't understand corporations, and worse, don't know that they don't understand corporations (Unknown unknown).

I am talking about the second group of masters.

The first group of masters are all named Master X. They are exactly the same as corporate executives; they require the appropriate headquarters to train and can spread their associated guild. I am not going to touch those.

This group is named X Master. They are all available at Jurisprudence, can spread more than one guild, and can spread a guild that hasn't been founded yet because they don't require anything more than the appropriate National Wonder Guild Hall to train. This is the group that I don't think we need because they seem redundant with the other masters and break the rules on spreading guilds before they're founded.