Vokarya's Workshop: Wonders

[Vokarya]

When AND's DLL and XML tags were updated with code taken from C2C, one of the tags that was introduced was <GlobalBuildingExtraCommerces>. This tag would allow a building (most likely a Wonder, but not necessarily) give a global bonus of one or more commerces gold:, , , ) to all buildings of a given type, in the same way that Modern Art increases the culture of all Theatres on researching the tech. I haven't yet used this tag, but I think there are some Wonders that would really benefit from this to give them special abilities that aren't shared by other Wonders, replacing some of their existing abilities.

Hanseatic League: Replace the connectedness commerce bonuses with +1 gold from all Market and all Harbor/Port/Seaport. HL goes obsolete before International Port comes on the scene, so it doesn't need to be included.

Isaac Newton's College: Remove the innate +2 raw science and cut the science percentage bonus from 50% to 25%. Add +2 science from all University, Laboratory, and Research Laboratory. I think World Wonders should try to have a civilization-wide effect, and Newton currently doesn't have any.

Bolshoi: Replace the free Theatre in every city with +2 culture from all Theatre and Opera House. Free Theatres don't mean a lot because they are available in the Classical Era and Bolshoi is Industrial Era. This would make Bolshoi more interesting.

Federal Reserve: Replace the free Bank in every city with +2 gold from all Bank. The free Bank was kind of a stop-gap because I couldn't think of anything better. I think this will make a much bigger impression.

If there's any other Wonders (national or world) you think could benefit from these kinds of bonuses, let me know. I want to keep this off regular buildings because it will stack, and I don't think that is a good thing.

 

[<Nexus>]

When AND's DLL and XML tags were updated with code taken from C2C, one of the tags that was introduced was <GlobalBuildingExtraCommerces>. This tag would allow a building (most likely a Wonder, but not necessarily) give a global bonus of one or more commerces gold:, , , ) to all buildings of a given type, in the same way that Modern Art increases the culture of all Theatres on researching the tech. I haven't yet used this tag, but I think there are some Wonders that would really benefit from this to give them special abilities that aren't shared by other Wonders, replacing some of their existing abilities.

Hanseatic League: Replace the connectedness commerce bonuses with +1 gold from all Market and all Harbor/Port/Seaport. HL goes obsolete before International Port comes on the scene, so it doesn't need to be included.

Isaac Newton's College: Remove the innate +2 raw science and cut the science percentage bonus from 50% to 25%. Add +2 science from all University, Laboratory, and Research Laboratory. I think World Wonders should try to have a civilization-wide effect, and Newton currently doesn't have any.

Bolshoi: Replace the free Theatre in every city with +2 culture from all Theatre and Opera House. Free Theatres don't mean a lot because they are available in the Classical Era and Bolshoi is Industrial Era. This would make Bolshoi more interesting.

Federal Reserve: Replace the free Bank in every city with +2 gold from all Bank. The free Bank was kind of a stop-gap because I couldn't think of anything better. I think this will make a much bigger impression.

These all make sense to me. I like it.

If there's any other Wonders (national or world) you think could benefit from these kinds of bonuses, let me know.

SURE!
Every religious wonders that provide a +X%, , , in every city could be changed to +X%, , , for its temple.
Like all 3 Kemetism NWs add +10% in all cities, also Hinduism's wonder Brishwa-whatever gives +10% of all. IMO it would make more sense if only the cities with the religion would benefit from these wonders.

 

[Vokarya]

Every religious wonders that provide a +X%, , , in every city could be changed to +X%, , , for its temple.
Like all 3 Kemetism NWs add +10% in all cities, also Hinduism's wonder Brishwa-whatever gives +10% of all. IMO it would make more sense if only the cities with the religion would benefit from these wonders.

We can't exactly do that, but I like the idea. We can only do straight numeric additions to buildings, not percentages (so +2 gold is okay, but not +5% gold). Normally I would also prefer to use the <StateReligionCommerces> tag for this, but I did some checking, and if you change state religions, you don't lose the effects of any religious Wonder that you have built and any <StateReligionCommerces> switch to the new religion. So for example, Parthenon currently provides +1 science and +1 culture from all state religion buildings. You have to have Hellenism as a state religion to build the Parthenon, but then if you switch to (for example) Judaism, the bonuses switch over to the Jewish buildings.

I think what would be appropriate is converting each +10% bonus to a flat +1 for the Monastery, Temple, and Cathedral/Pantheon of the appropriate religion. So for example, Temple of Osiris's +10% culture becomes +1 culture from Temple of Amon, Temple of Chons, and Temple of Mut (before any multipliers). I don't think that would break things open too much. The highest would be Temple of Heaven's +25% culture which I would convert to +3 per building, so that would stack to +9 at most, only in cities with a Taoist Pagoda. Brihadeeswarar Temple would grant +1 of each commerce to all three Hindu buildings; again, fairly big but I don't think would be that overwhelming.
We can also convert Parthenon, King Richard's Crusade, and Sagas to specifically allow only their religion's buildings; this gives you more reason to stick with and spread that particular religion.

Does this sound workable to everyone?

 

[<Nexus>]

% &#337;r flat bonus I don't mind. I am sure these changes will makett the game better.
Thx

 

[Arakhor]

That does mean that civs will change religions even less frequently.

 

[Afforess]

We can't exactly do that, but I like the idea.

Remember, I am around again. We can always add new XML tags.

I also had a rare inspiration for a new religious modifier. I often find I abandon religion ASAP because of the negative diplomacy modifiers that religion brings - but if there was a wonder that say, "Reduced Negative Diplomatic Effects for Non-State Religions", and say, halved the normal diplomacy penalties, I would probably be much less likely to abandon a religion.

If I recall correctly, the Shwedagon paya currently unlocks all religion civics, which I usually beeline for just to switch to Secular and have an easier time with diplomacy. What if we replaced that with the above idea? It's rather overpowered to get Secular in the middle ages.

 

[Arakhor]

Reduced penalty for religious diplomacy? Sign me up!

I usually switch to Secular for the cultural bonuses, not to avoid the relations hit, but that sounds like a useful power for a wonder.

 

[Vokarya]

Remember, I am around again. We can always add new XML tags.

I also had a rare inspiration for a new religious modifier. I often find I abandon religion ASAP because of the negative diplomacy modifiers that religion brings - but if there was a wonder that say, "Reduced Negative Diplomatic Effects for Non-State Religions", and say, halved the normal diplomacy penalties, I would probably be much less likely to abandon a religion.

If I recall correctly, the Shwedagon paya currently unlocks all religion civics, which I usually beeline for just to switch to Secular and have an easier time with diplomacy. What if we replaced that with the above idea? It's rather overpowered to get Secular in the middle ages.

Personally, I would rather explore the XML tags we already have before we make new ones for something this specific like +X% commerces in a city with a religion. GlobalBuildingExtraCommerces has a lot of potential, and I think I'm just scratching the design surface at this point. I'd like to run with this for all the religious wonders.

Diplomacy from buildings is something we haven't really touched on yet. I think that would be a very good idea. I actually would not mind seeing both a tag that grants a flat +X diplomacy from all leaders ("We admire your wonderful achievements!" or something like that) and then another tag that reduces a particular diplomatic penalty by X (like what you are suggesting for Shwedagon Paya, but generalized to be able to affect any negative penalty). I'm not sure exactly what could benefit from this other than Shwedagon, but I think that this can be made more flexible without too much additional work.

 

[Afforess]

Diplomacy from buildings is something we haven't really touched on yet. I think that would be a very good idea. I actually would not mind seeing both a tag that grants a flat +X diplomacy from all leaders ("We admire your wonderful achievements!" or something like that) and then another tag that reduces a particular diplomatic penalty by X (like what you are suggesting for Shwedagon Paya, but generalized to be able to affect any negative penalty). I'm not sure exactly what could benefit from this other than Shwedagon, but I think that this can be made more flexible without too much additional work.

Good ideas, both. I will whip something up in the next few days.

 

[Combat Wombat]

Ishtar Gate gate is a bit OP with the 100 gold per civ in larger games. Is there a way to scale down the reward the more civs there are or scale up the build cost?

 

[Vokarya]

Ishtar Gate gate is a bit OP with the 100 gold per civ in larger games. Is there a way to scale down the reward the more civs there are or scale up the build cost?

I was actually thinking about yanking the one-time gold bonus completely and replacing it with +2 gold from Walls/High Walls. I don't think the "meet everyone" ability is too powerful by itself, but other people have issues with the gold bonus as well.

 

[Vokarya]

I'm starting to look at the "big" wonder effects with an eye towards maybe revamping some of the Wonders we already have. One thing that I noticed is that Circus Maximus is pretty lacking in the big effect category; its only worldwide effect is +1 area happiness.

What do you think about allowing Circus Maximus to generate random Mounted units, the way King Richard's Crusade generates Crusaders? Every few turns, it would generate either a heavy mounted unit (Chariot/Heavy Horseman/Knight), a light mounted unit (Horseman/Horse Archer/Rider), or an elephant unit (Elephant Rider/War Elephant), based on its owner's current techs and resources.

 

[<Nexus>]

I'm starting to look at the "big" wonder effects with an eye towards maybe revamping some of the Wonders we already have. One thing that I noticed is that Circus Maximus is pretty lacking in the big effect category; its only worldwide effect is +1 area happiness.

What do you think about allowing Circus Maximus to generate random Mounted units, the way King Richard's Crusade generates Crusaders? Every few turns, it would generate either a heavy mounted unit (Chariot/Heavy Horseman/Knight), a light mounted unit (Horseman/Horse Archer/Rider), or an elephant unit (Elephant Rider/War Elephant), based on its owner's current techs and resources.

As an effect it is really exciting but...
Circus Maximus is not a military wonder but a cultural&entertainment one, so IMO this effect doesn't really fit.
I wonder what others think.

 

[Afforess]

I agree with Sogroon, the effect does not seem to fit well with the wonder.

 

[Vokarya]

If you don't like it, I'll let it go. I was looking for something that hasn't been used very much but still feels familiar. How about +1 gold and +1 culture from all Stables? It would be a minor bonus but would still be civilization-wide.

 

[gay_Aleks]

Why not for Arena?

 

[<Nexus>]

Why not for Arena?

+1
Arena feels much more appropriet.

 

[Vokarya]

I suggested Stables because I cut the ties between Circus Maximus and Arenas a while back. To diversify the Horse Breeding tech a little, I switched CM from Athletics to Horse Breeding and the building requirement from Arenas to Stables. If I was going to tie anything to Arenas, it would probably be the new Colosseum wonder over Circus Maximus.

 

[Vokarya]

I'm starting to do some work on analyzing our current roster of Wonder effects to see if there are any effects that are being overused and need to be cut back on, or effects that we can maybe use a bit more often. Some effects have a lot of open space and can be used repeatedly without, at least to me, seeming overused, like free Specialists of a particular type, extra commerces from buildings, and extra commerces or yields from Specialists. Other effects have to be very carefully controlled; examples I'm thinking about are access to all Civics in a category (the power level varies dramatically with how early or late the Wonder is), free buildings in every city, starting a Golden Age, and giving a free Technology.

There are two Wonders that I would like to swap out their primary effects for a different effect that I consider a little less dangerous.

Neuschwanstein: This is in the middle of a trio of Wonders that all grant Golden Ages between the late Renaissance and the mid-Industrial: Taj Mahal (Absolutism), Neuschwanstein (Romanticism), Crystal Palace (Imperialism). From a gameplay perspective, I think Neuschwanstein's GA is the one that can be cut because it's closest to the other two. From an in-game perspective, Taj Mahal is the iconic Golden Age wonder (since BTS, and reused in Civ V) and I think Crystal Palace as a symbol of the British Empire at its peak is more suited to a Golden Age than Neuschwanstein. I don't yet have a good replacement effect yet, but I'm leaning towards something related to Artists.

Leonardo's Workshop: We currently have 4 Wonders with free Technologies attached: Oracle, Cheomseongdae, Leonardo's Workshop, and Computer Center (National Wonder). I'm not comfortable with Cheomseongdae and Leonardo being as close together as they are; Cheom requires Alchemy (mid-Medieval) and Leonardo requires Oil Painting (early Renaissance). I am thinking about replacing the free Tech with a universal +1 science from all Specialists. The <SpecialistExtraCommerces> tag is currently not being used for anything except Culture (Karnak, Sistine, Crystal Palace, Burning Man). I think it would be a good thing to use the SpecialistExtraCommerces tag in at least one other way other than Culture.

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

The Golden spike wonder -

Do you consider this wonder a bit weak, it only gives a 'Trans Contentinental' railroad.

Which in my case was only from East to West of my Continent, even though I had settled it fully North to South. (6x longer)

Is giving a railway connection to every city too much, too much demand on systems, or not how it's intended.

My opinion, is it should give evey continental city a Railway connection to the next closest city.