Voting on using or not nukes

[2metraninja]

So, the options are:

1. We ask our allies to avoid Rocketry until an UN vote ban the use of nukes and only if they dont agree, we prepare and execute plan "Isildur"*

2. We deliberately move towards plan "Isildur" i.e. being able to use the strategic initiative first nuclear hit against all the other teams, at the right time execute it and shortly after this win the game undisputed



*

Galadriel: "Victory was near."

Galadriel: "But the power of the Ring could not be undone."

[Sauron strides onto the battlefield, towering over both Elves and Men.]

[Sauron wields a mace, hitting a group of warriors and sending them flying across the field. He repeats it with another fell swoop. The leader of Men raises his sword to strike Sauron, but Sauron parries the blow and flings him against the rock, crushing him to death.]

[Horrified, one of the Men rushes to the fallen warrior.]

Galadriel: "It was in this moment, when all hope had faded, that Isildur, son of the King, took up his father's sword."

[Isildur grasps the hilt of the sword, but Sauron stomps it down, shattering it.]

[Sauron, with the Ring on his finger, reaches down towards Isildur.]

[Isildur lets out a battle cry and strikes Sauron's hand with the shard of the sword, slicing the finger that bears the One Ring. Sauron lets out a cry as the Ring is separated from him.]

[Sauron implodes, sending a shock wave throughout the battlefield, knocking the warring troops off their feet.]

[His armor falls unto the ground, his body vaporized.]

Galadriel: "Sauron, the enemy of the free-peoples of Middle-Earth, was defeated."

 

[Calis]

Although my signature might suggest something else, I am generally against using nukes.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Everyone has Rocketry already. Q is after Fission. After this Only Manhattan project stands in the way of nukes.

 

[2metraninja]

So, then we must start position our spies. And position them with lot. Position them in few civs cities. Must get as much gold as we can, must try to prepare as much overflow in Manhattan and in ICBMs.

I will still wait one more day before send the letter. Will ask no one to research Fussion, not mentioning that Q is already researching it.

Eh...

 

[nabaxo]

This is a tough one. I really can't decide on what to vote, anyone care to lay out the pros vs the cons?

 

[2metraninja]

I see two and a half possible developments of the situation.

1. We dont want to use nukes and we propose to the other teams that we ban them

pros:
- we are secured from possible nuclear strike against us
- we can use our superiority in land to achieve space or culture victory, while being able to defend ourselves with our superior conventional weapons
- we will look like the good guys - true wise world leader, who is concerned to avoid mass destruction

cons:
- we may well be targeted in attack with conventional weapons in 3 vs 1 manner when it shows clear that we are about to win the game


2. We want to use nukes. Then we plan ahead and prepare a preemptive nuclear strike strike and win the game.

pros:
- we win the game earlier with overwhelming force in 1 vs 3 manner, something which even the mighty Sirius could not achieve, which will bring us immortal honor

cons:
- eventually something can go wrong and we end up beaten badly and ugly, just as Sirius ended in the last war
- even if we win glorious victory, the guys from the other teams will feel poorly
- due to our smashing victory the next MTDG may not happen at all, as I think the core of the current teams will be the cores of the future teams


There is a case 1.5 where we propose ban on nukes, but some (or all) teams refuse and go for nukes. Then we execute

goto 2.

and most of the cons of 2. are gone and we only get the most of the pros of both 1. and 2.

 

[2metraninja]

5:0 ... Looks like we all lean towards sending the proposal to the other teams. Will still wait 6-7 more hours before actually sending it.

 

[nabaxo]

I say we propose the ban and win like the manly men *cough* we are through conventional 3v1 warfare when they declare on us. However, we should be weary and have a back-up plan with loads of rush-bought nukes ready.

 

[2metraninja]

So, it is decided - with absolute majority we decide to ask the other teams to ban the nukes. At this point I am a bit sad, as Isildur would have been a challenge to set up and execute, but on the other hand, or OTOH (just today I learned what this abbreviation means and will try to get used to use it from now on ) it will irritate the map-makers who obviously wanted some nuclear fun if they gave all the teams Uranium.

I am sending the message trough gmail and via PMs.

 

[nabaxo]

I think they put the uranium there so there would be no sour grapes over lack of a strategic resource.

 

[2metraninja]

What is the exact meaning in the English language of the "sour grape" idiom? As in my language it is not exactly the meaning I guess from the way you are using it.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I think they put the uranium there so there would be no sour grapes over lack of a strategic resource.

I agree with this analysis by nabaxo.

Also, I played our turn just now and noticed Sirius did not give us Rocketry even though I tried to trade it for Refrigeration. I see 3 possibilities for this.

1. AlphaShard is just being lazy or busy, not caring to take their turn so he just did not notice the trade request yet.

2. Sirius is going for AluminumCo, so they are purposely staying out of the game to avoid giving Rocketry to us so we can't get it.

3. Sirius gets Rocketry and denies it to us while Q gets Fission and also denies us. Then they both have nukes and we don't

 

[Sommerswerd]

What is the exact meaning in the English language of the "sour grape" idiom? As in my language it is not exactly the meaning I guess from the way you are using it.

"Sour Grapes" is when somebody agrees to do something, knowing the rules and knowing the odds that he might win or he might lose. He knows in advance that he might get what he wants and he might not. He agrees to take a chance, knowing the rules and risks. But then he loses, or does not get what he wants, and he weeps and whines, saying the rules were not fair, even though he already agreed to them.

It is like the man who buys the grapes. He knows they may be sweet, or they may be sour, they are grapes afterall. Then he makes his wine and drinks it, finding it to be sour. Then he goes to the merchant, asking for his money to be returned, after he has already pressed the grapes and drank the wine. That's why we say "sour grapes"

So what happens with this game, is even though everyone knows that in civ you get some resources and you don't get other ones, they will whine that the map is not fair if someone gets Uranium but they do not. In other words they will whine that the "grapes were sour".

This is different from "sore loser" or "poor loser" because sore losers just weep about losing, not necessarily blaming the rules, they just complain that they got ganged up on, cheated, unfairly picked on etc.

 

[Sommerswerd]

2metra remember that CDZ probably font read CFC or gmail anymore. You must send your pm to them on Civ Duel Zone forums.