Iron Pen 3: Pirates! - Stories, Comments, and Voting

[Synobun]

I was unsure if I would post in this since I don't feel myself as an authority on the subject or even as though my opinion matters. I didn't like either story and did not think they were very good, though I preferred the style of Onan's more than the other. I would not know where to begin in terms of suggestions since I'd honestly start completely over with both. I'm really sorry.

 

[JohannaK]

Poll seems to be closed.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I'd love to see subsequent drafts of these two.

I notice "This poll will close on Sep 26, 2015 at 07:11 PM", so I guess there's not really a deadline for comments on the stories, but time's getting short to participate in the intended spirit of Iron Pen...

There's no deadline for comments, only for votes (I did give this phase of the competition approximately a week to run).

I was unsure if I would post in this since I don't feel myself as an authority on the subject or even as though my opinion matters. I didn't like either story and did not think they were very good, though I preferred the style of Onan's more than the other. I would not know where to begin in terms of suggestions since I'd honestly start completely over with both. I'm really sorry.

Which of us is an authority on most things? Of course your opinion matters - everyone's opinion matters!

Poll seems to be closed.

You missed the deadline by 3 minutes. It closed at 5:11 pm MDT. I take it that Buster's Uncle is posting from the Eastern time zone.

I'll post the results soon, and reveal the contestants' true identities (if they would prefer to remain anonymous, PM me and say so NOW).

 

[Valka D'Ur]

The poll is now closed, and it's time to see the results. Eight people voted, and the results are as follows:

Iron Pen Onan received 24 points for Days of the Turk.

Iron Pen Mystery Person received 28 points for The evil of the pirate.


Therefore, it is my pleasure to declare that Iron Pen Mystery Person is the winner of Iron Pen 3: Pirates!. Congratulations!


But wait... Just who are these writers, really? They used Pen Names, so as not to influence any votes. Well, now that this round is over, it's time to reveal their true identities.

Please welcome JohannaK, aka Onan!
Please welcome Terxpahseyton, aka Mystery Person!


Thank you both, for your participation and weathering the occasional storm during the past 10 days.

Thanks also to everyone who took the time to read the stories, offer feedback, and vote. We all do a great deal of writing of some kind here, and I'm pleased to see that interest is picking up in storytelling.

The next round will start as soon as two people indicate they're interested and we can agree on a start date, so if anyone would like to give it a try and hasn't already PM'd me, feel free to do that and I'll add you to the list of Pen authors.

 

[JohannaK]

Just who I thought Mystery Person was.

As for criticism, it is all fair, though the things objected to are mostly there by design. Cutlass pointed out the Turks/Berbers discrepancy, but the thing is that Turkish pirates in the Western Mediterranean operated from the Barbary Coast, and were also called Berber pirates. About the names, I was going to have a Catalan coastal village raided, but then perhaps someone would deduce who I was. So I put some weird names. Brother Jachiam is Father Jachiam, it is implied that time having passed he is now the abbot. Jachiam Mureda was going to be a Brother Jachiam who had renounced monastic life to avenge the raid on his town, but theen I decided to just make the reader believe so. Something that interests me is the arbitrariness of naming, so there is usually some play with characters' names across any story I write. In that sense, it is deliberately confusing.

The structure itself is also confusing by design. As I didnt really have the space to fully develop an adventure composed of the raid, the retaliatory invasion and the sorrowful comeback, I tried to explore and heavily exploit ellision.that is also why the three paragraphs are so large, they are to be read as different chapters rather than as 'normal' paragraphs. There is not a clear division however in order to fully exploit the shock value of ellision.

Apparently though, it didnt work out. Of course when you are writing it and thinking about it you think you're being so clever, but when you come out without a second reader it is easy for it to go awry. I am not the proudest author here, really. I am not very happy about how it came out in the end, although I feel I did what I wanted to do, and that is good enough for me. I am trying to rewrite addressing your concerns without altering these concepts, but it is kinda hard, so you will have to wait.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Thank you very much to all who (eventually ) took the time to vote and/or comment. I very much appreciate all and every feedback.


@Johanna
Woah, I had no idea, actually
And I hoped to have dispersed your suspicions Apparently not ^^
What gave me away? Can't be my post in the thread, since you mentioned your suspicion before. The link in my sig?

Looking forward to your revised version

Of course when you are writing it and thinking about it you think you're being so clever, but when you come out without a second reader it is easy for it to go awry.

So true. I actually had the fortune of having a second reader, my brother, and he instantaneously got the reference to Internet piracy in the speech of the executioner.
It almost seems like he was the only one

My idea was to not only criticizes copyright law (which happened in the speech of the executioner), but to also poke fun at the, also cultural, criminalization of Internet piracy like it was the worst thing ever by intentionally making the punishment of the pirates over-the-top. But I can totally see that this was too subtle and just irritating.

However, why people didn't get the reference to Internet piracy in the speech still baffles me, to be honest

Perhaps it just came too unexpected. In the first part - besides the harsh punishment - I still only focused on a "traditional pirate story" as has been said, but ideally I should have already worked the theme of Internet piracy in there.

And in general - the first and second part definitely would have to be linked in a better way and they were too different in their tone. Fully agreed.

But you need to consider the voice of the characters, and have the voice of the characters be in character! In this story the wording used by the characters is more the wording I'd expect a couple of college professors, particularly snooty and stuck up college English professors at that, to be using. Not pirates.

That took me quite aback. Could you please elaborate? I really do not know what you mean, with the exception of the speech of the executioner in the end (which was supposed to employ a higher official tone – but Buster's Uncle made a good point that he may have been the wrong person to make such a speech).
edit:
I suppose this could be troublesome
"there is a lot of lead as well as corresponding appliances to make us all closely familiar with it"

The satire in here is particularly biting for its length, and while it isn't the smartest out there, it's still readable.

Wait, you got it?

However, I didn't enjoy Phillip and Derek's conversation

Can you give me a hint, why? Really would like to know

I was unsure if I would post in this since I don't feel myself as an authority on the subject or even as though my opinion matters. I didn't like either story and did not think they were very good, though I preferred the style of Onan's more than the other. I would not know where to begin in terms of suggestions since I'd honestly start completely over with both. I'm really sorry.

That is cool (if everyone had felt that way.. not so cool, but I can totally handle one or two ) and I understand that it can be difficult to articulate why one did not care for it. But if you still tried, I'd much appreciate it

 

[Cutlass]

T
That took me quite aback. Could you please elaborate? I really do not know what you mean, with the exception of the speech of the executioner in the end (which was supposed to employ a higher official tone – but Buster's Uncle made a good point that he may have been the wrong person to make such a speech).

You have to consider who and what the characters are. And from there you figure out how that person is likely to speak. I've read articles in the past which describe this, but don't have one saved to link you to. But the point is that many writers, even many successful published writers, write dialog which is not how people in the real world actually speak. Now writers do this sometimes because they are trying to convey information that the reader wouldn't otherwise have. But the problem is that the people in the conversation do have that information, and so have no need to articulate it to one another. Further, the 'voice of the characters' has to consider not only how such a person would speak, but what they know, what the person they are speaking to knows, and what kind of a background the speaker is from. Some pirates in the age of sail may have some education, if they are disgraced noblemen or gentlemen. But most likely they were barely literate. And, in fact, most noblemen and gentlemen of the era were barely literate. They don't need to tell one another that 7 sailer ships are faster and better armed than they are. They already know that. The author, telling the reader that, should do so outside of dialog rather than within. For those characters simply wouldn't have bothered. And the wording isn't consistent with what men in those positions are likely to know or say.

 

[JohannaK]

Thank you very much to all who (eventually ) took the time to vote and/or comment. I very much appreciate all and every feedback.


@Johanna
Woah, I had no idea, actually
And I hoped to have dispersed your suspicions Apparently not ^^
What gave me away? Can't be my post in the thread, since you mentioned your suspicion before. The link in my sig?

Looking forward to your revised version

It was the language. Like, it's a very correct use of English, but at moments there is something off. A word or too that seem out of place, which is typical of your lengthier posts. I mean I was reading it and at one point I come across this word and I suddenly think 'this must be Terxpahseyton'.

 

[jackelgull]

As soon as Terx used the word frelling I knew that he was this mystery person. That's really the tip off.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Thanks Cutless, I will have to consider that for the future.

As soon as Terx used the word frelling I knew that he was this mystery person. That's really the tip off.

Oh man I am an idiot, that was pretty stupid of me

It was the language. Like, it's a very correct use of English, but at moments there is something off. A word or too that seem out of place, which is typical of your lengthier posts. I mean I was reading it and at one point I come across this word and I suddenly think 'this must be Terxpahseyton'.

I see. I assumed that a mistake would make it into it here and there, just didn't think they would be so characteristic... Just out of curiosity, got an example so I can get an idea of it?

 

[JohannaK]

It could be frelling.

 

[Blasph23]

Just to add my two cents:

I felt Onan's story was more of an excerpt from something larger. It didn't fit into the confines of a short story for me and felt detached without a greater context to relate it to. Some minor mistakes, like "then" instead of "them" break the spell a bit.
I believe the use of present tense is uncalled for since in the context of narration, it doesn't fit into the events described - it would have been better if there was an actual combat of some sort, where this tense would do a better job. As it is, the result is that present tense builds tension and the reader expects a culmination of events that never comes. Finally, the theme that was supposed to be incorporated into the story was only partially included. The narrator focuses instead on repercussions of a pirate invasion and on characters that themselves appear to not be pirates. I'd have expected them (the pirates) to burst into the church in the middle of the mass and begin a slaughter. Instead the story seems to underline a single man's absolution of sins which feels detached as we know nothing about him or his connection to the apparent pirate invasion of a coastal area. I think it's a poor execution of the theme.

The second story was in my opinion considerably better.
It focused directly on a pirate crew on the sea, the characters are themselves pirates, a dialog partially does the job of describing the situation instead of letting regular narration do that. This marks a good use of limited wordcount. The story feels like it's not ripped out of a larger piece; it doesn't require prior knowledge of circumstances and instead forces the reader to focus in here and now. The assumption is made that the reader knows what pirates do and how their activities are punished, which saves the necessity to explain their predicament and instead use the precious wordcount limit to express their own feelings about the situation and picture what they imagine their options to be.
We don't need to know what the acts of piracy they have committed but we don't really need to know that. The point is to show how they react to it. I think in this context, the story was successful though the closing lines somewhat ruined it for me, as I expected 18th-19th century pirates to be convicted and executed for crimes that fit the time period. Instead there is a clear comparison made with internet piracy. I think it was uncalled for and only served to detach the reader from the bulk of the story. Still, it's relatively well written and significantly more enjoyable than the first story.

 

[JohannaK]

For the record I hated the secret theme. I'm not fond of pirates and I almost freaked out when I learned of it. Perhaps because I mostly write free verse poetry I have taken a liking to subverting, so I decided to skip the actual tension releases that the battles could provide, thus sketching simply a premise, an initial situation, and a character that arises from it.

The more I think about it, the more content I am with what I did, even though, as a story, I know it's not easily accessible. I just thought it's a bit like modern art. My cousin is an artist. When I go to her exhibitions I usually think "that's nice, but what the hell is it?". When she explains it, it all makes sense and you can truly appreciate it.

I guess I've done something like that. It is still flawed, no doubt, but it is attuned with my vision for it, so I can't help feeling it's a nice piece.

PS: I agree with you that the second story is immensely more enjoyable (even with the weird ending), but as I said myself in my own initial critique both are extremely different. Perhaps enough so to make straight, fair comparisons hard.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Thanks for the further feedback and kind words
"Uncalled for" fits it just right.

@Johanna
I think I know what you mean and I have created more "artsy" works myself and I personally also still very much like for different reasons (even if all of them got some major flaws). I think it just is immense fun for a writer to really play with the elements and words of a story and in the eyes of that writer - or someone who takes the time and makes the effort to get into the head of a writer - that can make a story much more powerful and interesting.

However, to quote a seasoned professional writer I had the fortune to talk to and who holds seminars on creative writing

"These days many want to do some kind of expressionist art. But what people want is stories."

 

[jackelgull]

For the record I hated the secret theme. I'm not fond of pirates and I almost freaked out when I learned of it. Perhaps because I mostly write free verse poetry I have taken a liking to subverting, so I decided to skip the actual tension releases that the battles could provide, thus sketching simply a premise, an initial situation, and a character that arises from it.

The more I think about it, the more content I am with what I did, even though, as a story, I know it's not easily accessible. I just thought it's a bit like modern art. My cousin is an artist. When I go to her exhibitions I usually think "that's nice, but what the hell is it?". When she explains it, it all makes sense and you can truly appreciate it.

I guess I've done something like that. It is still flawed, no doubt, but it is attuned with my vision for it, so I can't help feeling it's a nice piece.

PS: I agree with you that the second story is immensely more enjoyable (even with the weird ending), but as I said myself in my own initial critique both are extremely different. Perhaps enough so to make straight, fair comparisons hard.

Then that isn't a story. A story is a dialogue between the writer and the audience. Your submission is a one sided stone wall the reader is supposed to ram their head against. Art can get away with that because the medium of paint was never meant as a means of communication really. But words are a means of communication. When the great writers write their story, they generally try to enhance the communication between audience and story, not inhibit it. Just my two cents on the matter.

 

[Buster's Uncle]

JohannaK, FWIW, I think Days of the Turk succeeded in being what you indicate you were aiming for. An easy-to-follow narrative is great, but it's not everything - there's a music to what you wrote, and I think people were expecting a pop tune instead of a short orchestral piece, and that's where most of the objections are coming from.

I do think that, taken strictly as a coherent narrative, it's crying out to be a much longer work. Blasph23 put a finger on something, there...

---

Terxpahseyton, I misspoke slightly when I said the wallet business sailed past me - I had wondered if computer piracy wasn't the metaphor, but lacked the confidence to say so. -SO it wasn't all quite so unclear as I made it sound.

 

[jackelgull]

I do agree that the writing is good, but I feel that the Days of Turk didn't connect well enough. There were clever touches, like the brother Jachiam becoming father Jachiam, but the story becomes lost in the style. To connect back to the orchestra example, it is like a gorgeous opera who's subject matter is just a child's disconnected babbling. One touch that I truly couldn't stand was the Jachiam Mureda having the same name as the priest. It felt unnecessarily confusing. I mean confusion is the whole point of the piece, but there's necessary confusion, the kind that can be rectified after deeply studying the piece, and unnecessary confusion which you just have to deal with.
I'd like to reiterate that again, this is all a matter of opinion, and I did not hate your piece. I just felt it stifled the dialogue between reader and text rather than try to enhance it.

 

[JohannaK]

Yes, it could definitely be something more. Reflecting on this, I have done similar things, things that are a bit of a story but not quite, but they're always more overt about their uncertain nature: I have never really done something that looks like a story that doesn't really want to be a story. This is, I think, what I've done here.

In any case, jackelgull, I must say I did write a story: there's a setting, characters, a beginning and an ending. Just because it is harder to crack does not mean it is not communication, just like probably every use of, say, painting is used for communication (aside from house painting). Communication is not necessarily a two-way process. In fact I'd say that it is NEVER a two-way process and that when two-way communication seems to be happening it's just two separate events of communication happening simultaneously in opposite directions. But that's beside the point.

PD: cross-post. I am myself not very sure about Jachiam Mureda. As said before, he was supposed to be brother Jachiam who had renounced the Church, but then I separated the characters. I feel like it's the way to explore the arbitrariness of nomination in this story, but at the same time I feel a bit ambiguous for not even introducing him before. He wouldn't be named before the second paragraph, the only really narratively interesting point is the reveal that Jachiam Mureda and Brother Jachiam are not the same person, but I'm not absolutely sure about how it's done.

 

[jackelgull]

Now that I think about it, I was too harsh calling the piece not a story, I was letting my frustration speak for me. I apologize. However, I think your story doesn't accurately convey what you intended it to convey.

If you wanted to call out the arbitrary nature of nomenclature, then you must have the characters notice it too. Perhaps Father Jachiam notices the stranger has the same name, and thinks, he could have been me if I had submitted to my anger after that pirate attack. And who is the Turk? If it is Jachiam Mureda, then why did he attack the pirate base? And if he is a Turk, then why is his hometown Christian? I think the setting is really difficult to understand. Now I understand you don't want to make it explicit, but add a detail or two that makes it clear roughly where this village is. Perhaps some export of there that they're known for, or a reference to Catalan culture? I'm so sorry for being unhelpful.

 

[Blasph23]

In any case, jackelgull, I must say I did write a story: there's a setting, characters, a beginning and an ending. Just because it is harder to crack does not mean it is not communication, just like probably every use of, say, painting is used for communication (aside from house painting). Communication is not necessarily a two-way process. In fact I'd say that it is NEVER a two-way process and that when two-way communication seems to be happening it's just two separate events of communication happening simultaneously in opposite directions.

I have to disagree here. It is a two-way process.
Take this for example: A writer introduces two opposing characters and a setting for a scene and interaction between them.
A reader, depending on his particular mindset, morality, experiences etc. will expect one character to prevail and every aspect of the narration that deals with the advantages of his preferred protagonist will be eagerly and carefully read.
Another reader might choose to root for the other character and likewise interpret the text differently.
The writer spoke to both of those readers, each responded differently and in return the text rewards them with two possible points of view.

This is a clear indication of cause and effect, an event and a response to it.
This is typical communication and the most successful written pieces are those in which the reader finds a part of himself and perceives the action through that perspective.
The written work communicates to him its story and characters, he communicates to the book his interest and his stance towards presented content.
The same book can be read twice and depending on the input (that is, the mood), a reader may experience two quite different outlooks.
With many characters to choose from, there are many readers that respond differently to the same piece of work and continue to respond to it in their individualized ways. It's a definition of two-way communication.