vyyt
Deity
Last time I checked IGE worked fine.
Vox Populi Civilizations Compatibility Request Thread
- Thread starter Enginseer
- Start date
Last time I checked IGE worked fine.
Tried your Nubia a bit and got some feedback.
They seem to be buildable on jungle and plain-forest tiles (without removing the forest/jungle) which probably isn't intentional.
The ingame text doesn't seem to mention that it can't be built adjacent to eachother, not really a gameplay issue, but it should probably be fixed anyways.
If you disregard the movespeed next to rivers (that I didn't get the work) the archer is extremely underpowered by CBO standards, just 1 RCS extra and a promotion that is of limited use (yeah siege is quite decent in the era before catapults, but the archer unlocking later than normal archers makes getting an attack-force up to take advantage of that rather awkward).
Other than that the archer unlocks at Construction and goes obsolete on the very next tech (masonry), not only is that way earlier than the replacement unit is available, but CBO normally lets units obsolete when the second upgrade unlocks (in the case of an archer that would be at machinery, where crossbows unlock)
Seems to work fine, at least the production part. Haven't gotten around to conquering a city with a WW yet, but I'm working on it.
Honestly not sure how much I like the whole era-scaling thing on this, just puts a ton of pressure on you to build them early on and delaying era-progression.
They seem to be buildable on jungle and plain-forest tiles (without removing the forest/jungle) which probably isn't intentional.
The ingame text doesn't seem to mention that it can't be built adjacent to eachother, not really a gameplay issue, but it should probably be fixed anyways.
This unit is kinda messed up. I personally didn't get the river-thing to work (and it's not present on a promotion or so, so I can't really check if it just spawns without the ability or if the ability doesn't work.
If you disregard the movespeed next to rivers (that I didn't get the work) the archer is extremely underpowered by CBO standards, just 1 RCS extra and a promotion that is of limited use (yeah siege is quite decent in the era before catapults, but the archer unlocking later than normal archers makes getting an attack-force up to take advantage of that rather awkward).
Other than that the archer unlocks at Construction and goes obsolete on the very next tech (masonry), not only is that way earlier than the replacement unit is available, but CBO normally lets units obsolete when the second upgrade unlocks (in the case of an archer that would be at machinery, where crossbows unlock)
Might as well do the other two while I'm at it.
Confederate States:
UA: Looks solid, I suppose. Maybe something completely unrelated should be added to it if only to make the text longer and provide some use outside of war.
I haven't exactly gone through the promotions lately, but I remember them being decent enough but not strong enough to compete with CBO level UAs.
UI: Actually looks quite powerful, I am however worried about the specific resources mentioned in the text (cotton, tobacco, sugar?). I understand that it's historically true, but I'm always kinda on the fence with things buffing specific luxuries, mostly because of the RNG issue.
I see you wrote something about it getting buffed by any plantation (makes a whole lot more sense, I mean that's the point of these manors) and that whole thing sounds a lot more reasonable, sure you're not guaranteed to get a plantation resource, but it's quite likely.
One final note is that while this UI looks quite solid in the yields department, most CBO UIs are based around getting better as the eras go on (because that's kinda how normal improvements work here) meaning that by having the UI as strong as it will ever get from the start, it is effectively getting weaker over time, which I'm not sure is the actual goal.
UU.
Obsoletes at the wrong tech (according to CBO standards), it should obsolete at Combined Arms.
Also feels slightly underpowered compared to other CBO UUs unlocking around similar times.
Vietnam.
UA:
I never got around to testing this either, but with how you worded it, it sounds like you could fill out all 3 ancient era trees and receive a massive 72% food and culture in all cities.
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, I'm just asking if this was actually your intention.
UB.
The UB is REALLY underpowered compared to other CBO-based buildings.
Comparing the Greek Acropolis with it directly:
-10 Hammer cost (Acropolis/amphitheater is 140, watertheater is 150)
-1 Maintenance (Acro/amphi is at 1 gpt, water is at 2gpt
+1 Culture (acro got 3cpt, water got 2cpt)
+2 Tourism (acro provides +2 tourism)
+-Defense (Acropolis provides +10 city-defense, Water puppet theater provides +2 defense per great work) (So anywhere below 5 great works in the city and the Acro beats it, considering limited slots and the inability to house the same great work in multiple cities at once I feel like the acro beats it out)
+5 culture(per era) per kill (This is just something the Acropolis has)
On top of that the Water puppet theater doesn't provide any boost to Lapis Lazuli, but I'm assuming that is more of a miss than an actual conscious decision.
UU.
Obsoletes at the wrong tech (according to CBO standards), it should obsolete at Mobile tactics.
Also feels slightly underpowered compared to other CBO UUs unlocking around similar times.
Confederate States:
UA: Looks solid, I suppose. Maybe something completely unrelated should be added to it if only to make the text longer and provide some use outside of war.
I haven't exactly gone through the promotions lately, but I remember them being decent enough but not strong enough to compete with CBO level UAs.
UI: Actually looks quite powerful, I am however worried about the specific resources mentioned in the text (cotton, tobacco, sugar?). I understand that it's historically true, but I'm always kinda on the fence with things buffing specific luxuries, mostly because of the RNG issue.
I see you wrote something about it getting buffed by any plantation (makes a whole lot more sense, I mean that's the point of these manors) and that whole thing sounds a lot more reasonable, sure you're not guaranteed to get a plantation resource, but it's quite likely.
One final note is that while this UI looks quite solid in the yields department, most CBO UIs are based around getting better as the eras go on (because that's kinda how normal improvements work here) meaning that by having the UI as strong as it will ever get from the start, it is effectively getting weaker over time, which I'm not sure is the actual goal.
UU.
Obsoletes at the wrong tech (according to CBO standards), it should obsolete at Combined Arms.
Also feels slightly underpowered compared to other CBO UUs unlocking around similar times.
Vietnam.
UA:
I never got around to testing this either, but with how you worded it, it sounds like you could fill out all 3 ancient era trees and receive a massive 72% food and culture in all cities.
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, I'm just asking if this was actually your intention.
UB.
The UB is REALLY underpowered compared to other CBO-based buildings.
Comparing the Greek Acropolis with it directly:
-10 Hammer cost (Acropolis/amphitheater is 140, watertheater is 150)
-1 Maintenance (Acro/amphi is at 1 gpt, water is at 2gpt
+1 Culture (acro got 3cpt, water got 2cpt)
+2 Tourism (acro provides +2 tourism)
+-Defense (Acropolis provides +10 city-defense, Water puppet theater provides +2 defense per great work) (So anywhere below 5 great works in the city and the Acro beats it, considering limited slots and the inability to house the same great work in multiple cities at once I feel like the acro beats it out)
+5 culture(per era) per kill (This is just something the Acropolis has)
On top of that the Water puppet theater doesn't provide any boost to Lapis Lazuli, but I'm assuming that is more of a miss than an actual conscious decision.
UU.
Obsoletes at the wrong tech (according to CBO standards), it should obsolete at Mobile tactics.
Also feels slightly underpowered compared to other CBO UUs unlocking around similar times.
No use outside of war, it's a civilization with an army that is very versatile with many varieties of the same units.
The key word is antebellum. It out-yields most improvements until the "Big War" timeline which later unique improvements start to out-yield it. (But your ideological tenets should keep them online more because the max yield could be +2f/+4f, +3p/4p +1g, +3c, +0s/3s) which this is actually common provided you settled your city appropriately. And honestly they're a civilization who intends to warmonger due to their UA. If you're not bound to find some plantations snip snip.
I'll look into the wrong techs... (don't know why...)
Vietnam.
Code doesn't count opener and finisher as policies therefore, the max you can get is +60% in all cities(minimally it's +20% which is still huge)
I actually have no idea why the Acropolis should be providing that much Defense, but I'm thinking it's related to one of them complaints about where walls aren't providing enough Defense and Gazebo appropriately did something to it. Might up the defense to 3, but other than that. Vietnam is meant to be played as a thick civilization that is able to boost her defenses through her UA bonus of generating cultural great people by building defensive structures.
Correct. I was only referencing the CBO folder rather than both More Luxury and CBO folder as to making the compatibility. I'll make the changes.
I'll look into it.
Again as mentioned earlier, I don't have a problem with one-dimensional civs. But if you want something that's historically just linked to a specific era, kinda like the zulu was in vanilla, that part I'm not a real fan of. I mean Zulu was changed in CBO so that not one of their stuff actually goes obsolete (and so was the huns and the mongols) mainly because you're not supposed to win the game in one swift swoop, but through working towards a goal for the majority of the game. That's just how CBO works now.
Let's just put it this way, if this is going to be a one-dimensional warmonger civ, then the kit would have to match the zulu kit, which I'm not exactly sure it does at the moment.
Right, I was counting the opener, but not the finisher. So 60% for capping out all the ancient era trees, and that's intentional? Seems fine in that case, I suppose.
It got buffed mainly because it seemed kinda pointless after walls/castles got buffed.
But that's not really the issue here, the issue is that the unique building is just weak by CBO standards. Most unique buildings in CBO are powerful enough to change the way you're playing the game, especially the ones unlocking later on (yeah this isn't exactly that late, but the majority of UBs unlock earlier). As the WPT is now, you could double the culture, remove the maintenance and double the city-defense per great work and it would still be weak by CBO standards.
I'm not saying the idea is flawed, but you could definitely jam some more stuff in there. Maybe culture per turn based on population along with an extra GW slot (and maybe some fun theming-bonus.
In general I think you're undershooting most everything. But balance is hard, and it's definitely harder when you're the one responsible, as you're probably trying really hard to make something overpowered.
Of course these are all suggestions, you're naturally allowed to do whatever you want about this, or just ignore it all together. If you don't want me to continue with this, then just tell me and I will stop bothering you.
By the way, did you see the Nubia post above the post you referenced to?
Nubia is fine, I don't know what problems you are talking about. I've tested out all the features and it all works. There's no balance issue with no royal pyramids because the Nubia can transition heavily from a early-game warmonger into a late game cultural civilization through their transformation of royal pyramids into landmarks or extraction of artifacts.
So their unique unit is supposed to obsolete at masonry?
You're supposed to be able to build these unique improvements on top of jungle/forest without removing it?
And the missing description about adjacency restriction works just as it is supposed to as well?
I have no problem with you dismissing suggestions or things that are simply my opinion, but these are clearly bugs. I am trying to help you here.
The reason why I dislike the pyramid design is because it severely lowers the value of mid-game expansion. It's never going to be worth building a pyramid in the medieval era or later because by that time all other improvements have caught up and will keep up with the pyramid for the rest of the game. The reason why this is such a bad thing is because mid-game expansion is the strong point of unique improvement civs. You've just gathered an army of workers and you've finished improving the infrastructure around your core cities, the followup to that is expansion, either through warfare or not depending on if there is any unoccupied space. Specifically going after locations where you can make good use of your UI (which either unlocks around here or gets boosts around here depending on the civ you're playing).
Again, this is just an explanation of my reasoning, your design could absolutely work.
What I am worried about however is the antiquity site thing you've mentioned, I never actually got around to testing that out, but are those antiquity-sites that spawn under your pyramids only visible to you? If not, you're either forced into replacing your ancient era pyramids with inferior landmarks or just never sign open borders with anyone, because if the AI can see an antiquity-site in your territory they are going to take it, no matter what they have to destroy to get it.
Your faith bonuses scaler is now a gold scaler.
I don't see how it can be inferior.Honestly, I don't discard. I just take those into consideration and spin a wheel on whether or not it should be changed. It's how I balance out my civic mods.
Your faith bonuses scaler is now a gold scaler.
Honestly, I don't discard. I just take those into consideration and spin a wheel on whether or not it should be changed. It's how I balance out my civic mods.
You don't think 'X culture/gold' is worse than 'X culture/faith +1 food'? I mean sure, the difference isn't major but is is a downgrade. This of course assumes that the holy site counts as the same era as the Pyramid, I mean if it is random, replacing your ancient era pyramid with a medieval era landmark would be horrible.
It's the same. I'll guaranteed it.
Opera
Deity
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- Sep 21, 2008
- Messages
- 4,643
I agree with Funak regarding the CSA on a few points:
- While thematically appropriate, I don't think it makes sense to give their UI a bonus for specific resources. The plantation and city center bonuses are already interesting in their own right.
I didn't look at how their yields hold up in further eras (stopped at Renaissance so far) but I don't find your argument of them being out-yielding historically appealing. What's the point of spending all this time setting up my manors if they end up not good enough some eras later?
- I didn't like the UA. It's unreliable: 1) you get a random bonus that maybe you can get some use of, maybe you can't; 2) you can get a malus, why?
Regardless of the potiential strength of the promotions, it lacks control to stand on its own as a UA IMO.
Then again, maybe I'm reading too much into this civ as a "southern american" civ than as simply the CSA, although the manor does imply that it is more than that. I felt that a second dimension to the civ could be interesting, like some kind of representation of their religiosity (villages and manors gain faith when adjacent to plantations?).
- While thematically appropriate, I don't think it makes sense to give their UI a bonus for specific resources. The plantation and city center bonuses are already interesting in their own right.
I didn't look at how their yields hold up in further eras (stopped at Renaissance so far) but I don't find your argument of them being out-yielding historically appealing. What's the point of spending all this time setting up my manors if they end up not good enough some eras later?
- I didn't like the UA. It's unreliable: 1) you get a random bonus that maybe you can get some use of, maybe you can't; 2) you can get a malus, why?
Regardless of the potiential strength of the promotions, it lacks control to stand on its own as a UA IMO.
Then again, maybe I'm reading too much into this civ as a "southern american" civ than as simply the CSA, although the manor does imply that it is more than that. I felt that a second dimension to the civ could be interesting, like some kind of representation of their religiosity (villages and manors gain faith when adjacent to plantations?).
I have no idea how much I've overestimated the UA, actually, I thought all the possible promotions were way superior to for example the Japanese and the Indonesian promotions (as this is an entire UA), but the only promotion I've gotten so far (5 out of 5 times no less
) was one buffing combat-strength of units standing in the capital by 20%, a promotion that is probably worse than shock 1.thecraftybee
Warlord
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- Jan 10, 2015
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I am mid game with Nubia and like it so far.
There are some things which I think could be improved.
1. The UU Archer is made redundant at Masonry which you can get even before getting the Tech for the UU itself. The Inca's Slinger is also an Archer replacement but it becomes redundant at Machinery. I would like to see the same thing happen with this UU.
2. I've only just hit Renaissance and I like the Pyramids, although I think I will stop making them from now on which gives them a really different feel compared to most other UIs. Not sure if I like it, but I think it is good for variety. I think that is worth keeping. However, I can build them on forested plains without first cutting the forest down, which I don't think is your intention. I don't mind this, but it feels a little off.
3. Events & Decisions - my Nubians do not have the Civ specific Decisions, but according to its log in http://civilization-v-customisation.wikia.com/wiki/Nubia_(Piye) there are 2 custom Decisions. Would you be able to intergrate them here?
They are as follows.
Restore the Temple of Amun
O' Great Pharaoh, our priests bemoan the state of our temples and religious monuments. We are practically begging a displeased diety to smite our people. Let us rennovate the Temple of Amun and other religious sites that the heavens may be sated and Nubia's glory restored.
Requirement/Restrictions:
Player must be Nubia
Player must have a State / Majority Religion
Player must own their Religion's Holy City
Must have researched Philosophy
Player must have Temples in all cities
May only be enacted once per game
Costs:
200 Faith
2 Magistrates Magistrates
Rewards:
+1 Gold From Temples
+1 Faith From Royal Pyramids
A Grand Temple is built in your Religion's Holy City
The empire enters a Goldenage Golden Age
Subsidise the Furnaces
Nubian metalwork has recently become very valuable, both within our nation and amongst our neighbours. We can help our metalsmiths establish additional forges and blast furnaces throughout our empire to take advantage of this.
Requirement/Restrictions:
Player must be Nubia
Must have researched Iron Working
Costs:
200 Gold Gold
1 Magistrates Magistrate
Rewards:
Gain a free Forge in your first four Cities
Forges extend Trade Route range by 25%
I am fairly happy with the Restore the Temple event, though as we are in VP, I don't think it needs to have the "Temples in all cities" pre-req because of the way National Wonders work here, but I don't think it is too onerous either.
The Subsidise the Furnaces one is okay, but fairly weak, and the four free Forges feels too similar to vanilla 4 city Trad to me which VP has left behind. I would prefer to see all Forges give a different bonus, perhaps: all Forges give Internal Trade Routes 50% extra production (not food) or extra gold for international routes, as well as the extended range. These changes would be a little more impactful and synergise a little with the 10% bonus production from the UA and requires no need to change the description of the Event. However, even having the original one in would be cool, for the sake of completeness.
Cheers.
There are some things which I think could be improved.
1. The UU Archer is made redundant at Masonry which you can get even before getting the Tech for the UU itself. The Inca's Slinger is also an Archer replacement but it becomes redundant at Machinery. I would like to see the same thing happen with this UU.
2. I've only just hit Renaissance and I like the Pyramids, although I think I will stop making them from now on which gives them a really different feel compared to most other UIs. Not sure if I like it, but I think it is good for variety. I think that is worth keeping. However, I can build them on forested plains without first cutting the forest down, which I don't think is your intention. I don't mind this, but it feels a little off.
3. Events & Decisions - my Nubians do not have the Civ specific Decisions, but according to its log in http://civilization-v-customisation.wikia.com/wiki/Nubia_(Piye) there are 2 custom Decisions. Would you be able to intergrate them here?
They are as follows.
Restore the Temple of Amun
O' Great Pharaoh, our priests bemoan the state of our temples and religious monuments. We are practically begging a displeased diety to smite our people. Let us rennovate the Temple of Amun and other religious sites that the heavens may be sated and Nubia's glory restored.
Requirement/Restrictions:
Player must be Nubia
Player must have a State / Majority Religion
Player must own their Religion's Holy City
Must have researched Philosophy
Player must have Temples in all cities
May only be enacted once per game
Costs:
200 Faith
2 Magistrates Magistrates
Rewards:
+1 Gold From Temples
+1 Faith From Royal Pyramids
A Grand Temple is built in your Religion's Holy City
The empire enters a Goldenage Golden Age
Subsidise the Furnaces
Nubian metalwork has recently become very valuable, both within our nation and amongst our neighbours. We can help our metalsmiths establish additional forges and blast furnaces throughout our empire to take advantage of this.
Requirement/Restrictions:
Player must be Nubia
Must have researched Iron Working
Costs:
200 Gold Gold
1 Magistrates Magistrate
Rewards:
Gain a free Forge in your first four Cities
Forges extend Trade Route range by 25%
I am fairly happy with the Restore the Temple event, though as we are in VP, I don't think it needs to have the "Temples in all cities" pre-req because of the way National Wonders work here, but I don't think it is too onerous either.
The Subsidise the Furnaces one is okay, but fairly weak, and the four free Forges feels too similar to vanilla 4 city Trad to me which VP has left behind. I would prefer to see all Forges give a different bonus, perhaps: all Forges give Internal Trade Routes 50% extra production (not food) or extra gold for international routes, as well as the extended range. These changes would be a little more impactful and synergise a little with the 10% bonus production from the UA and requires no need to change the description of the Event. However, even having the original one in would be cool, for the sake of completeness.
Cheers.
Does not obsolete at the wrong tech, it is a replacement of the Fusilier.
Yeah, meaning it should obsolete when riflemen go obsolete. CBO unique units stay active an entire era more than the units they replace.
Example: A spearman goes obsolete at Steel (when pikemen becomes available) but an immortal (unique spearman) goes obsolete at Gunpowder (when tercio becomes available).
Congratulations, you found another bug, the Ethiopian UU should also go obsolete at Combined arms.
Added Funak's Suggestions and some.
Did I actually make any suggestions? I thought my posts were entirely bug-reports and unproductive criticism.
Yeah, this was pretty much what I meant.
Opera
Deity
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- Sep 21, 2008
- Messages
- 4,643
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