thunderbird_14
Prince
Enginseer changed some things, which an be seen in the sticky at the modmods subforum
Vox Populi Civilizations Compatibility Request Thread
- Thread starter Enginseer
- Start date
After scouting out the updated versions slightly in game I have found a few changes, I don't really see anything there that I actually suggested(except maybe the bugfixes for obsoleting unique units), but I do say a lot of things.
Anyways.
The Nubian Archer still obsoletes at masonry.
The CSA and Vietnam unique units seems to go obsolete at the correct tech now.
The Water Puppet Theater got its defensebonus per great work increased to 3.75 (unless I remember that wrong) and now increases great artists/musicians points earned by 25% (and lower great writer points earned from the standard 33% to 25%).
It still costs more hammers to build and has higher maintenance than the amphitheater it replaces, which strikes me as odd considering it is still fairly weak as far as unique buildings go. The missing Lapis Lazuli seems to be fixed.
Nubian UI appears unchanged, maybe it can't be constructed on forest/jungle anymore, I'm not sure how to check that without starting a Nubia game.
The CSA UA appear unchanged and the CSA UI appear unchanged as well.
This isn't exact science in any ways, but people asked for a changelog.
EDIT:
After doing some digging in the CSA promotions list I found out that it is pretty much unchanged from the non-CBO mod, and if that's true this is the list of promotions available according to the wikia.
Really Good:
John Bell Hood: Additional attack.
William Mahone: Scaling bonus when fighting near the Capital, to a maximum of 20%.
Albert Sidney Johnston: Heals fully from pillaging.
Stonewall Jackson: Flank attack bonus increased by 100%.
Nathan Forrest: May capture defeated enemies.
Good:
Ambrose P. Hill: Double Movement in Grassland
Ambrose Wright: Allows Embarkation. 100% Defensive bonus while Embarked.
Bushrod Johnson: 50% more Defense when stationed in a City
Charles Field: 15% Attacking bonus in Open Terrain.
Charles Winder: +1 Movement.
Chase Whiting: 30% Combat bonus VS Siege units.
Edward Johnson: 30% Defense bonus in Forest.
Henry Heth: +1 Sight.
James Longstreet: 30% attacking bonus in Rough Terrain.
John Breckinridge: 15% Defense bonus in Open Terrain.
John Gordon: 30% Attacking bonus in Forest.
John Magruder: 100% Defense bonus in Marsh.
Jubal Early: 10% Combat bonus outside of friendly lands. Heal an extra 10 HP per turn when healing in Enemy (not Neutral) territory.
Lafayette McLaws: 30% Defense bonus in Hills.
Richard Ewell: Heal an extra 10 HP per turn when healing in Neutral territory.
Richard H. Anderson: Double Movement in Forest.
Robert Hoke: 25% Combat bonus vs Cities.
Robert Rodes: Unit is 50% more likely to create Great Generals.
Jeb Stuart: Ignores enemy Zone of Control.
Bad:
Daniel H. Hill: No combat bonus from nearby Great Generals.
George Pickett: 15% Attacking penalty in Open Terrain.
Benjamin Huger: 20% Defense penalty.
Rebel Militia: 20% Combat penalty outside of Friendly lands.
Theophilus Holmes: -1 Movement.
Braxton Bragg: 20% Combat penalty. 75% chance to retreat if attacked.
From this list it is first of all quite clear that who-ever labeled the good vs the really good list have very different opinions concerning promotion-strengths compared to me.
I for example see +20% CS when standing next to the capital as pretty useless while extra movement, the ability to ignore ZoC and '+10% cs +10 healing' are awesome.
Anyways what I'm trying to say is that these promotions are definitely not anywhere near close enough to make the UA stand up to CBO-UA standards. Only affecting a part of the army, 20% of promotions are negative, another 30-40% close to pointless/really situational (and usually not strong enough to make it worth pushing for that situation).
Anyways.
The Nubian Archer still obsoletes at masonry.
The CSA and Vietnam unique units seems to go obsolete at the correct tech now.
The Water Puppet Theater got its defensebonus per great work increased to 3.75 (unless I remember that wrong) and now increases great artists/musicians points earned by 25% (and lower great writer points earned from the standard 33% to 25%).
It still costs more hammers to build and has higher maintenance than the amphitheater it replaces, which strikes me as odd considering it is still fairly weak as far as unique buildings go. The missing Lapis Lazuli seems to be fixed.
Nubian UI appears unchanged, maybe it can't be constructed on forest/jungle anymore, I'm not sure how to check that without starting a Nubia game.
The CSA UA appear unchanged and the CSA UI appear unchanged as well.
This isn't exact science in any ways, but people asked for a changelog.
EDIT:
After doing some digging in the CSA promotions list I found out that it is pretty much unchanged from the non-CBO mod, and if that's true this is the list of promotions available according to the wikia.
Really Good:
John Bell Hood: Additional attack.
William Mahone: Scaling bonus when fighting near the Capital, to a maximum of 20%.
Albert Sidney Johnston: Heals fully from pillaging.
Stonewall Jackson: Flank attack bonus increased by 100%.
Nathan Forrest: May capture defeated enemies.
Good:
Ambrose P. Hill: Double Movement in Grassland
Ambrose Wright: Allows Embarkation. 100% Defensive bonus while Embarked.
Bushrod Johnson: 50% more Defense when stationed in a City
Charles Field: 15% Attacking bonus in Open Terrain.
Charles Winder: +1 Movement.
Chase Whiting: 30% Combat bonus VS Siege units.
Edward Johnson: 30% Defense bonus in Forest.
Henry Heth: +1 Sight.
James Longstreet: 30% attacking bonus in Rough Terrain.
John Breckinridge: 15% Defense bonus in Open Terrain.
John Gordon: 30% Attacking bonus in Forest.
John Magruder: 100% Defense bonus in Marsh.
Jubal Early: 10% Combat bonus outside of friendly lands. Heal an extra 10 HP per turn when healing in Enemy (not Neutral) territory.
Lafayette McLaws: 30% Defense bonus in Hills.
Richard Ewell: Heal an extra 10 HP per turn when healing in Neutral territory.
Richard H. Anderson: Double Movement in Forest.
Robert Hoke: 25% Combat bonus vs Cities.
Robert Rodes: Unit is 50% more likely to create Great Generals.
Jeb Stuart: Ignores enemy Zone of Control.
Bad:
Daniel H. Hill: No combat bonus from nearby Great Generals.
George Pickett: 15% Attacking penalty in Open Terrain.
Benjamin Huger: 20% Defense penalty.
Rebel Militia: 20% Combat penalty outside of Friendly lands.
Theophilus Holmes: -1 Movement.
Braxton Bragg: 20% Combat penalty. 75% chance to retreat if attacked.
From this list it is first of all quite clear that who-ever labeled the good vs the really good list have very different opinions concerning promotion-strengths compared to me.
I for example see +20% CS when standing next to the capital as pretty useless while extra movement, the ability to ignore ZoC and '+10% cs +10 healing' are awesome.
Anyways what I'm trying to say is that these promotions are definitely not anywhere near close enough to make the UA stand up to CBO-UA standards. Only affecting a part of the army, 20% of promotions are negative, another 30-40% close to pointless/really situational (and usually not strong enough to make it worth pushing for that situation).
I haven't updated screenshot for Nubian Archer, but it does obsoletes properly at Machinery.
Meh, original creator never implied it. I don't see why I have to. (Flat is flat even if it has trees)
I've made appropriate changes in my SQL file reflected on this a while ago.
According to the civpedia it does go obsolete on masonry, I haven't actually tested it myself, but the civpedia gets information straight from the game, unless I'm mistaken, so it should be correct.
Well, it does look kinda weird, and there is a pretty big powerdifference between a plain (1f 1p) and a jungle (3f 2p 2science eventually).
Anyways you're right about the original creator never implied it, so I guess the decision is yours. It would be easier to balance if you force people to remove the jungle before constructing it, but I'm not sure that's actually all that important.
Really? And, translated to simple English, what does that mean? ^^
Please do not make up claims without actually testing it out.
This is the file from Steam Workshop itself.
Code:
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]Double movement in grassland and plains.[ENDCOLOR][NEWLINE][NEWLINE]"Hill''s Light Division" was famed for its 17-mile, one-day march from Harper''s Ferry to save the Confederates at Sharpsburg.'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_CIVIL_WAR_SCENARIO_PROMOTION_A_HILL_HELP';
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]+75% [ICON_STRENGTH] When defending in a city.[ENDCOLOR][NEWLINE][NEWLINE]His South Carolinians fought well in the Battle of the Crater, capturing 130 prisoners.'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_CIVIL_WAR_SCENARIO_PROMOTION_B_JOHNSON_HELP';
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]+15% [ICON_STRENGTH] when attacking and +30% when defending in open terrain.[ENDCOLOR][NEWLINE][NEWLINE]Ran for President against Lincoln in 1860. His division participated in the repulse of the Union frontal assault at Cold Harbor.'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_CIVIL_WAR_SCENARIO_PROMOTION_BRECKINRIDGE_HELP';
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '[COLOR_NEGATIVE_TEXT]+10% [ICON_STRENGTH] Combat Strength. No bonus from Great Generals.[ENDCOLOR][NEWLINE][NEWLINE]An accomplished general whose career was hampered by his frequent feuds with his superior officers.'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_CIVIL_WAR_SCENARIO_PROMOTION_D_HILL_HELP';
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]+20% [ICON_STRENGTH] when attacking and +45% [ICON_STRENGTH] when defending in forest.[ENDCOLOR][NEWLINE][NEWLINE]His division repulsed several Union attacks in the Battle of the Wilderness, causing Lee to consider him for corps command.'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_CIVIL_WAR_SCENARIO_PROMOTION_E_JOHNSON_HELP';
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]+10 HP per turn and +10% [ICON_STRENGTH] in enemy territory.[ENDCOLOR][NEWLINE][NEWLINE]Led a late war raid on Washington that almost succeeded in capturing the lightly-defended capital.'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_CIVIL_WAR_SCENARIO_PROMOTION_EARLY_HELP';
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]+30% [ICON_STRENGTH] when attacking and +15% [ICON_STRENGTH] when defending in open terrain.[ENDCOLOR][NEWLINE][NEWLINE]Helped keep Richmond secure with a fierce counterattack at the Battle of Deep Bottom.'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_CIVIL_WAR_SCENARIO_PROMOTION_FIELD_HELP';
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]+45% [ICON_STRENGTH] when attacking and +20% [ICON_STRENGTH] when defending in forest.[ENDCOLOR][NEWLINE][NEWLINE]Executed a successful flank attack in the Wilderness that might have turned the tide of battle if started earlier in the day.'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_CIVIL_WAR_SCENARIO_PROMOTION_GORDON_HELP';
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]+50% [ICON_STRENGTH] When attacking cities.[ENDCOLOR][NEWLINE][NEWLINE]Captured a Union garrison of three thousand in his attack at Plymouth, North Carolina, the last Confederate victory of the war.'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_CIVIL_WAR_SCENARIO_PROMOTION_HOKE_HELP';
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '[COLOR_NEGATIVE_TEXT]-15% [ICON_STRENGTH] When defending in a city.[ENDCOLOR][NEWLINE][NEWLINE]Evacuated Norfolk early in the Peninsula Campaign, forcing the Confederates to scuttle the ironclad CSS Virginia.'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_CIVIL_WAR_SCENARIO_PROMOTION_HUGER_HELP';
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]Flanking Bonus increased by +150%.[ENDCOLOR][NEWLINE][NEWLINE]Nicknamed "Stonewall" at 1st Bull Run, he led decisive flanking maneuvers during the 2nd Bull Run and Chancellorsville campaigns.'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_CIVIL_WAR_SCENARIO_PROMOTION_JACKSON_HELP';
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]+30% [ICON_STRENGTH] in rough terrain.[ENDCOLOR][NEWLINE][NEWLINE] His greatest success came leading the Confederate counterattack in the dense woods contested during the Wilderness campaign.'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_CIVIL_WAR_SCENARIO_PROMOTION_LONGSTREET_HELP';
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]+100% [ICON_STRENGTH]when defending and +25% [ICON_STRENGTH] when attacking in marsh.[ENDCOLOR][NEWLINE][NEWLINE] Bluffed the Union into thinking he was leading a huge army while defending the marshlands of the Virginia Peninsula'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_CIVIL_WAR_SCENARIO_PROMOTION_MAGRUDER_HELP';
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]+30% [ICON_STRENGTH] in hill.[ENDCOLOR][NEWLINE][NEWLINE]Spurred his troops on to a ferocious defense of Marye''s Heights during the Battle of Fredericksburg.'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_CIVIL_WAR_SCENARIO_PROMOTION_MCLAWS_HELP';
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]+100% [ICON_STRENGTH] Combat Strength against artillery.[ENDCOLOR][NEWLINE][NEWLINE]Commanded units that succeeded in capturing the first Union artillery battery of the war (Rickett''s battery at 1st Bull Run).'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_CIVIL_WAR_SCENARIO_PROMOTION_MCLAWS_HELP';Okay, because both that window you're showing me now and the ingame civpedia in the version I downloaded 4 hours ago show obsolete at masonry. Quite possible my client flipped out, but don't accuse me of making stuff up please.
mcshame
Warlord
- Joined
- May 15, 2016
- Messages
- 119
Hi Enginseer and all,
I'm about to take the full plunge into VP now that I have figured out Vanilla Civ V. I would like to install and bunch more Civs but trying to understand which one's are working and certified (balanced) for VP. Are only the 6 on the Vox Populi Compatible Civilizations Showcase page the one's that I should use or are there others scattered on other threads? Some of those threads are so long that I was hoping for some guidance to pick up the one's made for VP.
Thx
I'm about to take the full plunge into VP now that I have figured out Vanilla Civ V. I would like to install and bunch more Civs but trying to understand which one's are working and certified (balanced) for VP. Are only the 6 on the Vox Populi Compatible Civilizations Showcase page the one's that I should use or are there others scattered on other threads? Some of those threads are so long that I was hoping for some guidance to pick up the one's made for VP.
Thx
Well, they're the one that works in VP to my best knowledge.
Yay, time for some necromancy!
I enabled all of your fixed civs for my testing of the new VP version and happened to random one of them, which inspired me to test it out a bit. I figured since I'm feeling generous and this thread is pretty empty I'd give some basic feedback upon my experience and thoughts.
Anyways the civ in question was the Shu. Starting the whole thing off I'll mention that for some reason (might have been isolated to me, but I don't see why that would be so) both Liu Bei (Shu) and Cao Cao (Wei) seems to break the civpedia slightly, not posting their history instead giving error-lines. The actual civpedia still works and one can read information about the uniques, but the leaders show no information at all (which is a shame because these custom-civs usually have a lot of thought put into leader history).
Oh well back to gameplay, as I mentioned I randomed Shu, and I'll have to say that everything about them gameplay-wise worked remarkably well, I half expected the capture-mechanics or the wall-building to fizzle out at some point (no idea why, but custom civs with advanced mechanics tend to do that sometimes). Anyways the free wall and +2 culture in every city laid the foundation for a strong early-game, allowing me to go into progress and still have decent enough policy-acquisition, the free walls made me feel safe enough to do some fairly aggressive forward-settling, in a way this kinda made the civ feel a bit like the Shoshone.
This however brings me to the less pleasant part, while the super-early-game was really strong because of the bonus culture and defensible cities it just didn't feel enough. The bonus gets a lot less relevant once you reach classical era, yes a 10% discount on yields for unhappiness is definitely a help (at least I assume so, it's usually pretty hard to tell how much such bonuses does help you in VP, but I assume that it did work) the fact that this is all the empire building help you actually receive makes it all feel slightly underwhelming.
The military part of the civ (which I'm guessing is the actual focus of the civ) had a bit better lastingpower than that, I was able to capture a few of my neighbors cities with a combination of Tiger Generals and Trebuchets, worth mentioning that the neighbor in question was a Morocco pre-chivalry so he didn't have any military bonuses at all. Still the war was a bit of a struggle, the TGs were definitely better than normal Longswords, but I never really felt the power you usually feel when declaring a war as a military civ during the era of your UU, like it felt a lot weaker than a Samurai, a Musketeer or an Impi to take some example from units of the similar eras. Getting free walls in conquered was pretty nice, along with the no resistance makes holding on to conquered cities easier, especially if you manage to eliminate nearby siege-weapons. This becomes a lot less significant later on when advanced defensive buildings become available however, a +6 defense isn't going to do anything if a field-gun or even a cannon is aimed your way.
I know that I'm sounding fairly negative here, but I really enjoyed the design-choice made here, I've had similar ideas for civs ever since G made it clear that Rome wouldn't be allowed to capture enemy walls. I just don't think you went far enough when bumping this up to VP levels of power. I mean I kept feeling like I was waiting for a unique building to unlock somewhere along. What I'm trying to say is that it feels like everything involved with the wall UB could have been baked into the UA and it still wouldn't be the best UA in the game. The nature of the ability and the building also makes it kinda hard to know what actually fits in where, I mean the UA claims the -10% unhappiness ability, but according to EUI the ability itself is located on the building. Assuming the unhappiness-reduction is actually tied to the UA as described makes sense, but it makes the building look really weak in comparison, I mean just do a straight comparison to the Walls of Babylon (which itself isn't really considered a very strong UB).
Assuming the unhappiness-reduction is attributed to the wall makes the UA look kinda pale, decent enough start but not strong enough to snowball off. The exact same situation occurs when you try to think about if the free-instantbuild wall thing is attributed to either the UA or the wall..
I'm not really sure what I would do to improve upon this however, one possibility would be giving the UA some lasting-power by changing the free wall to 'free all unlocked defensive buildings', getting free walls and castle after chivalry is done (not retroactively, but newly captured/founded cities after chivalry was discovered) same thing with Arsenal and eventually Military base (probably skipping out on the mine-field because I don't really consider it to be part of that same building-line). This along with moving the -10% unhappiness to the actual wall UB and moving the wall to the Agriculture tech (just so it is available from the start) would make both the UA and the UB look like they are filling their own role, the UB providing some early culture and some decent scaling happiness-control for later relevance while the UA is just focused on your ability to hold on to newly settled and captured cities. This shouldn't exactly be a big change, but I feel like the shift would better define the uniques even if they are still heavily tied to eachother, it would also make each of them feel like they have some lasting impact.
I'm not actually sure this would be enough of a change, but I'm kinda short on ideas so that's really all I've got.
By the way, a bug(?) report while I'm at it. The faith-cost of the Tiger General seems to be slightly higher than the Samurai and Longswordsman for some reason (possibly because of G re-designing the faith-value some time back), I don't really see a good reason why it should remain that way (but if you've done it by design-choice, that's of course up to you)
On closer inspection it seems like all the unique units for these custom-civs suffer from this exact thing, so I'm guessing it's a bug/unintended. Either way, keep up the good work, man.
I enabled all of your fixed civs for my testing of the new VP version and happened to random one of them, which inspired me to test it out a bit. I figured since I'm feeling generous and this thread is pretty empty I'd give some basic feedback upon my experience and thoughts.
Anyways the civ in question was the Shu. Starting the whole thing off I'll mention that for some reason (might have been isolated to me, but I don't see why that would be so) both Liu Bei (Shu) and Cao Cao (Wei) seems to break the civpedia slightly, not posting their history instead giving error-lines. The actual civpedia still works and one can read information about the uniques, but the leaders show no information at all (which is a shame because these custom-civs usually have a lot of thought put into leader history).
Oh well back to gameplay, as I mentioned I randomed Shu, and I'll have to say that everything about them gameplay-wise worked remarkably well, I half expected the capture-mechanics or the wall-building to fizzle out at some point (no idea why, but custom civs with advanced mechanics tend to do that sometimes). Anyways the free wall and +2 culture in every city laid the foundation for a strong early-game, allowing me to go into progress and still have decent enough policy-acquisition, the free walls made me feel safe enough to do some fairly aggressive forward-settling, in a way this kinda made the civ feel a bit like the Shoshone.
This however brings me to the less pleasant part, while the super-early-game was really strong because of the bonus culture and defensible cities it just didn't feel enough. The bonus gets a lot less relevant once you reach classical era, yes a 10% discount on yields for unhappiness is definitely a help (at least I assume so, it's usually pretty hard to tell how much such bonuses does help you in VP, but I assume that it did work) the fact that this is all the empire building help you actually receive makes it all feel slightly underwhelming.
The military part of the civ (which I'm guessing is the actual focus of the civ) had a bit better lastingpower than that, I was able to capture a few of my neighbors cities with a combination of Tiger Generals and Trebuchets, worth mentioning that the neighbor in question was a Morocco pre-chivalry so he didn't have any military bonuses at all. Still the war was a bit of a struggle, the TGs were definitely better than normal Longswords, but I never really felt the power you usually feel when declaring a war as a military civ during the era of your UU, like it felt a lot weaker than a Samurai, a Musketeer or an Impi to take some example from units of the similar eras. Getting free walls in conquered was pretty nice, along with the no resistance makes holding on to conquered cities easier, especially if you manage to eliminate nearby siege-weapons. This becomes a lot less significant later on when advanced defensive buildings become available however, a +6 defense isn't going to do anything if a field-gun or even a cannon is aimed your way.
I know that I'm sounding fairly negative here, but I really enjoyed the design-choice made here, I've had similar ideas for civs ever since G made it clear that Rome wouldn't be allowed to capture enemy walls. I just don't think you went far enough when bumping this up to VP levels of power. I mean I kept feeling like I was waiting for a unique building to unlock somewhere along. What I'm trying to say is that it feels like everything involved with the wall UB could have been baked into the UA and it still wouldn't be the best UA in the game. The nature of the ability and the building also makes it kinda hard to know what actually fits in where, I mean the UA claims the -10% unhappiness ability, but according to EUI the ability itself is located on the building. Assuming the unhappiness-reduction is actually tied to the UA as described makes sense, but it makes the building look really weak in comparison, I mean just do a straight comparison to the Walls of Babylon (which itself isn't really considered a very strong UB).
Assuming the unhappiness-reduction is attributed to the wall makes the UA look kinda pale, decent enough start but not strong enough to snowball off. The exact same situation occurs when you try to think about if the free-instantbuild wall thing is attributed to either the UA or the wall..
I'm not really sure what I would do to improve upon this however, one possibility would be giving the UA some lasting-power by changing the free wall to 'free all unlocked defensive buildings', getting free walls and castle after chivalry is done (not retroactively, but newly captured/founded cities after chivalry was discovered) same thing with Arsenal and eventually Military base (probably skipping out on the mine-field because I don't really consider it to be part of that same building-line). This along with moving the -10% unhappiness to the actual wall UB and moving the wall to the Agriculture tech (just so it is available from the start) would make both the UA and the UB look like they are filling their own role, the UB providing some early culture and some decent scaling happiness-control for later relevance while the UA is just focused on your ability to hold on to newly settled and captured cities. This shouldn't exactly be a big change, but I feel like the shift would better define the uniques even if they are still heavily tied to eachother, it would also make each of them feel like they have some lasting impact.
I'm not actually sure this would be enough of a change, but I'm kinda short on ideas so that's really all I've got.
By the way, a bug(?) report while I'm at it. The faith-cost of the Tiger General seems to be slightly higher than the Samurai and Longswordsman for some reason (possibly because of G re-designing the faith-value some time back), I don't really see a good reason why it should remain that way (but if you've done it by design-choice, that's of course up to you)
On closer inspection it seems like all the unique units for these custom-civs suffer from this exact thing, so I'm guessing it's a bug/unintended. Either way, keep up the good work, man.
Wei and Shu's Leaders never had any background by its original author anyway. The civilopedia breaking seems unintentional however. I'll look into it.
Such is the life of Progress, you get to expand your infrastructure very easily which makes up for that lack of weakness in Progress which is expansion and maintenance thanks to the UA.
Thanks to the free Drill II provided by Tiger Generals, you're able to take Drill III and Blitz immediately(provided with the Barrack and the Armory) which makes them very formidable to upgrade during the renaissance where Tercios can take huge advantage of this through blitz charges. Free walls in conquered city are best since they give you access to the Castle right away and immediate purchasable garrisons due to no resistance which are critical in making sure you can keep your conquered cities which might be under fire.
It's because the Shu are meant to thrive in bad-start regions through its free walls and UA that grants them adequate unhappiness reduction to let them survive as an average civilization. The no-resistance rule is also huge throughout the early-late game as you can immediately annex the empire and start buying units to boost your combat strength of the city significantly and then have another nearby "reinforcement" area to your current army that are advancing upon the enemy.
If I do make all advanced defensive buildings become retroactive, the Shu AI would easily snowball since the conquerors would have a hard time trying to recapture their old city with 50 Combat Strength and such later on.
I thought they already do this? The UA's reduced unhappiness is essentially the UB's Unhappiness Modifier without me having to resort to a dummy building.
Probably. I'll take a look at it.
Thanks for the feedback anyway nonetheless.
Oh well, that might be it. It just feels weird seeing TXT_KEY_LEADER_LIUBEI_NAME/SUBTITLE/LIVED in the windows, even if there isn't a backstory available, maybe you you hardcode it into saying Liu Bei, Leader of Shu and whenever google says he lived
They do only receive Drill 1 (unless my game is broken again).
The ability to instantly purchase a defender is definitely relevant, but it requires you to capture the barracks properly, and as the game goes on the chance of capturing all required building shrinks. Still yeah that is a relevant point, didn't really consider it.
Yes no resistance definitely helps captured cities get up to speed faster, especially later on when the resistance-times actually becomes relevant, however I can't help but compare it to the Roman UA, which while it doesn't exactly do the same thing, will in theory just help the conquered cities get up to speed faster, time spent in resistance is usually shorter than time spent rebuilding infrastructure.
If one counts the -10% unhappiness as an effect of the unique wall (which I kinda feel like one need to do, or the wall just feels extremely underwhelming), and one assumes that the saved buildings on conquest of the Roman UA compares to the no resistance time, then the Roman UA still provides an extra +15% production when building buildings already in your capital (which is a fairly significant part of the UA). What I'm trying to say is that the Roman UA does more stuff, and from what people say, they don't really see the Roman UA as that good either.
Retroactive? I don't really see a difference between getting free walls when you conquer cities in ancient era compared to getting free castles when you capture cities in medieval era. Yes people will need siege-weapons to take them back, but isn't that kinda fair? I mean it's a unique ability, they are supposed to change the way people play.
Yeah what I'm saying is that the UA and UB is kinda clumped together because of how they interact with eachother, and I suggested keeping the 10% unhappiness reduction as an ability on the actual UB, to make the UB seem more comparable to other ancient era buildings (it just providing 2 culture seems kinda underwhelming compared to most if not all other VP unique buildings, they tend to be fairly gamechanging, while the Shu one just doesn't feel that impactful)
Again, I'm not trying to tell you what you can do or how you should do it, I'm just trying to help.
The Journey Continues...
The Mighty Shu Kingdom has its early game buffed. Earning +15% more unit supply from population automatically due to their unique wall that grants them more than enough supply than the regular wall. In addition, their UA now further reduces overall unhappiness from 10% to 15%. The Tiger General now properly applies their free Drill II promotion allowing them to cause devastation with their early blitz attacks. Warmongering is now promoted on them for a free barrack(provided that it wasn't destroyed) now spawns upon conquered cities providing initially captured cities as early reinforcements that can start off with a free promotion already.
Wei didn't get much of a cleaning, just a few tweaks and there.
Vietnam gets a considerable mentions as a cultural warmonger now that great works stationed with their UB now provide +3% more unit supply from population. Their UA is also much more threatening to also warmongers that threaten her soverinigty. Foreign owners of Vietnamese cities get +75% Crime in those cities now instead of +30%! Their UU gets a minor buff to their combat strength.
Nubia is very unique and special because their UI actually provides a chance for future archaeological sites, so the more you build; the more chance of sites you'll obtain. Nevertheless, they are still a strong improvement after Archaeology is discovered boasting +1 Food, Faith, and +1 Culture along with +2 Production, +2 Gold, and +3 Culture as the Royal Pyramids get their technological bonuses while the era scaling persist after the industrial era of +1 Faith and +1 Culture. Did I tell you that these Royal Pyramids make great mini-forts because they provide +25% Combat Strength to nearby units?
The Canton Pirates is nicely done thanks to the author. Nevertheless, the Gambling House provides 20 turns of WLTKD making truly gambling the national sport for their fleet compared to an annual circus. The Gambling House also provides a small minor sum of gold now with the Canton Authority claiming the modest income was a mere tax.
The Confederate States of America remain strong however although perhaps weakened by Vox Populi's initial scale in terms of costs, they make up for it in terms of additional firepower granted by their UU.
The Mighty Shu Kingdom has its early game buffed. Earning +15% more unit supply from population automatically due to their unique wall that grants them more than enough supply than the regular wall. In addition, their UA now further reduces overall unhappiness from 10% to 15%. The Tiger General now properly applies their free Drill II promotion allowing them to cause devastation with their early blitz attacks. Warmongering is now promoted on them for a free barrack(provided that it wasn't destroyed) now spawns upon conquered cities providing initially captured cities as early reinforcements that can start off with a free promotion already.
Wei didn't get much of a cleaning, just a few tweaks and there.
Vietnam gets a considerable mentions as a cultural warmonger now that great works stationed with their UB now provide +3% more unit supply from population. Their UA is also much more threatening to also warmongers that threaten her soverinigty. Foreign owners of Vietnamese cities get +75% Crime in those cities now instead of +30%! Their UU gets a minor buff to their combat strength.
Nubia is very unique and special because their UI actually provides a chance for future archaeological sites, so the more you build; the more chance of sites you'll obtain. Nevertheless, they are still a strong improvement after Archaeology is discovered boasting +1 Food, Faith, and +1 Culture along with +2 Production, +2 Gold, and +3 Culture as the Royal Pyramids get their technological bonuses while the era scaling persist after the industrial era of +1 Faith and +1 Culture. Did I tell you that these Royal Pyramids make great mini-forts because they provide +25% Combat Strength to nearby units?
The Canton Pirates is nicely done thanks to the author. Nevertheless, the Gambling House provides 20 turns of WLTKD making truly gambling the national sport for their fleet compared to an annual circus. The Gambling House also provides a small minor sum of gold now with the Canton Authority claiming the modest income was a mere tax.
The Confederate States of America remain strong however although perhaps weakened by Vox Populi's initial scale in terms of costs, they make up for it in terms of additional firepower granted by their UU.
Sounds really cool.
I'm going to try this out again later. Unfortunately it feels like you have to disable the Community events mod, to run these as the civ-specific events just gives the base-civs an unfair advantage over these.
Maybe we should create a "default" civ-specific event pool for the modded civs.
I think there's a 'no civ-specific events' option in the advanced setup menu. I think I did that, anyways.
G
Civilization Name: Leugi's Israel Civilization
Civilization Creator: Leugi
Download Link to the Civilization(No Civilization Packs, make your own downloads if you have): https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=175924953
What's the problem?(Be as clear as possible):
I feel like Leugi's Israel Civilization is not as powerful as VP civs. Can it be balanced?
Thanks so much!
Civilization Creator: Leugi
Download Link to the Civilization(No Civilization Packs, make your own downloads if you have): https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=175924953
What's the problem?(Be as clear as possible):
I feel like Leugi's Israel Civilization is not as powerful as VP civs. Can it be balanced?
Thanks so much!
Last edited:
Oooo If I can request one perhaps a Dni rework (super culture oriented)
And the Lord of the Rings civs.
And the Alpha Centuri Civs.
I know they kind of work right now quasi but +33% of science for university kind of seems outbalanced.
I would change Dni to free writer at the stated techs and great works create +2 science.
Change library to +1 science per 3 and the 2 scientist to writer specialists
plus 1 great writing slot
Their museum replacement
same as museum with writing slots +25% culture
Really need more fantasy civs.
And the Lord of the Rings civs.
And the Alpha Centuri Civs.
I know they kind of work right now quasi but +33% of science for university kind of seems outbalanced.
I would change Dni to free writer at the stated techs and great works create +2 science.
Change library to +1 science per 3 and the 2 scientist to writer specialists
plus 1 great writing slot
Their museum replacement
same as museum with writing slots +25% culture
Really need more fantasy civs.
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