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Vox Populi Civilizations Compatibility Request Thread

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Enginseer, Aug 9, 2016.

  1. ArchangelOfDoom

    ArchangelOfDoom Chieftain

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    Hold up, how does Indonesia get their third resource per ity? I thought it only got 2 ( 1 from UA, one from UB ). In light of this new information I'd definitly be down with the proposed monopoly changes and bringing the work boat food bonus back to the UB. However, I don't like changing the UB to a Well as the early cheaper lighthouse helps a lot with the early game exploitation of your UA. A lighthouse at tier 3 tech instead of tier 1 tech would severely nerf the Chinook's in tems of early expansion and growth.
     
  2. thothenki

    thothenki Chieftain

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    Hello Enginseer,
    Would you do a compatibility patch for this civ please?
    Civilization Name: MC's Oman Civilisation
    Civilization Creator: MC
    Download Link to the Civilization(No Civilization Packs, make your own downloads if you have): Oman
    What's the problem?(Be as clear as possible): I'm not sure if it completely balanced & know that you could make sure that it was.

    Thank your for your help and all of your work in making the Game great!
     
  3. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    I think you're right actually, I just booted up a game of Indonesia to check, and only got 1 resource.
     
  4. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    so @Blue Ghost, I finally got around to trying out the CBP goth mod, playing the goths myself. It was like playing god mode. The AI played exceptionally poorly, but even so I cleaned every other civ, 3 in total, off my own continent by late medieval.

    The UA makes conquering very easy and very rewarding.
    Having double heal on every unit is pretty crazy; cavalry are nearly invincible in an offensive war. Gothic armies prioritized cavalry, so I don't really have a problem with them cleaning house necessarily, but the ability to pillage 100 hp AND move twice is almost impossible to counter. I might reduce the UA to only +15 on tile pillaging (total of 40).
    I don't necessarily think there needs to be a reward for non-capital cities anymore... If the Goths UA only rewarded capital sniping it would make them more unique. a free golden age isn't good enough, but a full policy might be too good. I'm not sure.

    The Hov's improvement to pastures is great. Combined with Fealty's Serfdom and God of the Open Sky it is really satisfying. I might reduce the base prod to 1 though

    The UU is totally fine, I think
     
  5. Blue Ghost

    Blue Ghost King

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    Thanks for the feedback! I’ll put Alaric in some of my games and observe his performance. I don’t run hundreds of test games like Gazebo does, so getting statistics would be hard, but I’ll keep an eye out. Meanwhile, feel free to modify the Goths yourself!
     
  6. ArchangelOfDoom

    ArchangelOfDoom Chieftain

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    As it seems Enginseer is a bit busy I'd be willing to take a crack at it. Are there any parts you dont want changed or parts you really do want changed? Any ideas are welcome.
     
  7. Reffie2

    Reffie2 Chieftain

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    How do I make custom civs (like the Mass Effect ones), compatible with Vox Populi?
    Usually when I select any custom civ, I get glitches in the promotions for the Pathfinder. Or sometimes I'm not able to build anything in my city.
     
  8. notque

    notque Artificially Intelligent

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    You have to fix the problems via logs, and modding. If you don't know how, you can either learn, or ask someone and see if they are interested.
     
  9. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    I've got a request for another civ mod to get ported: Colonialist Legacy's Canada, led by Lester B. Pearson.

    Current game traits:
    Spoiler :
    UA: From Sea to Sea
    Mounted Units can temporarily claim neutral land and generate :c5greatperson: Great Merchant points if garrisoned in a Fort or Citadel. Upon declaring friendship, Canada and their friend gain +1 Delegate to the World Congress.

    UU: Great Voyageur (Great Merchant)
    • May create Fur resources in City-State territory, generating :c5influence: Influence
    • Cannot conduct Trade Missions
    • +2 :c5moves: Movement along Rivers
    • Immune to Snow Attrition (ExCE)
    UB: Hudson's Bay Company (Bank)
    • +1 :c5gold: Gold from Forts
    • Trained units receive the Colonial Capitalism promotion (+1 :c5gold: Gold while on a Fort or Citadel and +15% :c5strength: Combat Strength when starting a turn on a Trading Post)

    So My main problem isn't so much that this civ is unbalanced for VP, but I feel like with the changes made in VP, that this civ could be made much more historically accurate and engaging. Specifically, the introduction of unique wonders, and the explorer unit line open up better alternatives for unique components which better reflect the nation's history.

    And yes, I realize that the AI will never understand how to use this civ. They couldn't really use the old one either, but seemed to do okay anyways.

    Proposed VP Changes:
    Spoiler :
    UA: From Sea to Sea
    Mounted Units can temporarily claim neutral land and generate 1:c5culture: Culture and 1:c5capital: Great General Point per turn if garrisoned in a Fort or Citadel. Upon declaring friendship, Canada and their friend gain +1 Delegate to the World Congress. Forts can be built outside your borders and claim tiles.

    Notes: Pillaging forts should remove the land claim, and repairing forts should re-establish it.
    If people have a problem with Canada amassing too many great generals w.r.t. flavor, then perhaps Isaac Brock, James Wolfe, Julian Byng, or Tecumseh could be added to the names list for GGs

    UU: Coureur des Bois (Explorer Replacement)
    Available at Compass
    20:c5strength: CP (+3 from Explorer)
    3 :c5moves:Movement
    Ignores Terrain Cost
    XP from revealing tiles
    Embarkation with defense
    Extra sight while embarked
    Portage Promotion (+2 :c5moves: Movement if starting along Rivers)
    Trailblazer I Promotion (double movement in woods and forest)
    Fur Trade Action (1 charge)- Can perform action when adjacent to City-State lands to gain (5x(DistanceFromCapital) :c5gold: Gold, and a fixed 15 :c5influence: Influence. Similar to Exotic cargo, but does not give XP or build Feitoria's like the Nau
    When a Coureur des Bois enters into the capital, charges of Fur Trade are reset.

    Notes: Can perform Fur Trade, go back to capital, rinse and repeat ad infinitum. Essentially you can create less lucrative trade routes with city states which also grant influence, but you have to micromanage them. Uses same unit model as great Voyageur


    UB: Hudson's Bay Company (East India Company replacement)
    Available at Guilds
    Does Not Require Customs House
    Requires 35 citizens in Empire
    production required scales with number of cities
    Increases Spies chance to steal gold by 20% (up from 10%) (NorthWest Company)
    +6:c5gold: Gold (up from 4:c5gold:)
    +1 :trade: Trade Route
    :trade:Trade routes other players make to a city with an Hudson's Bay Company will generate an extra 4 :c5gold: Gold for the city owner and the trade route owner gains an additional 2 :c5gold: Gold
    1 free copy of all luxuries around city
    -20% Gold :c5unhappy: need modifier
    Free Customs House in City
    +50% range for land :trade: trade routes
    (York Factory Express)
    On construction, Immediately claims 8 tiles around city (Rupert's Land)
    +1 :c5gold:, +1 :c5culture: from Forts and Citadels (Factory system, analogous to Portuguese Feitoria)
    +2 :c5culture: Culture from Customs Houses and +3 :c5gold: from Banks
    All Units receive the '
    Colonial Capitalism' promotion (Units generate 2 :c5gold: Gold and 1 :c5culture: Culture per turn while on a Fort or Citadel)

    Notes: strategy is build forts at perimeter of your land, sit military units inside them. Free culture and gold from beyond the workable range of cities. Mounted units generate more yields (culture/GG points), but can often be put to better use acting as scouts and patrolling to create border buffers around your nominal sphere of influence.


    Forts outside your own territory is disabled in VP to help the AI, but because forts affect the economy of Canada, and because mounted units can grab land, preventing forts being built outside your normal territory would actual hurt the AI more.

    By changing Voyageur to an explorer replacement, there's no need for GM points, but Canada is still hungry for GGs. Horses can be parked on luxury resources and workers can improve them. Can permanently secure these luxuries with GGs.
    I didn't like how the more "nasty" part of the UA, permanent landgrabs with GGs, implicitly meant that you needed to warmonger in order to fully exploit the UA. While Canada has a proud military history and boasts some of the most well-trained and disciplined infantry on the globe, implicitly rewarding warmongering didn't feel very Canada, and ran counter to the UA's bonus to friendships. Replacing the GM points with GG points streamlines and harmonizes the UA.

    Proposed 4UC ModMod additions:
    Spoiler :

    UU: Expeditionary Force (Great War Infantry/Rifleman)
    Available at Replaceable Parts
    900 cost
    50 :c5strength:CS (+5 from GW infantry)
    5 BaseLandAirDefense
    +30% on Attack
    Great Generals I Promotion
    Quick Study Promotion

    UB: Hockey Stadium

    Available at Radio (1 Tech earlier)
    2000 Cost (down from 2500)
    8 :c5gold: maintenance
    Does not Require a Zoo
    +2 :c5happy: Happiness (up from 1)
    1 :c5culture: Culture and 1 :c5gold: Gold for every :c5citizen: citizen in city
    Diplomatic units trained in this city gain the "Sports Diplomacy" Promotion
    (+20 :c5influence: Influence from Diplomatic Missions)
    Provides 500 :c5goldenage: Golden Age Points and 200 :tourism: Tourism when completed (up from 300 GAP)
    25% of :c5culture:culture from landmarks and World Wonders is converted to :tourism:Tourism in city
    +25% :tourism: from Great Works
    Reduces :c5happy:Boredom Greatly (-50%)
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
  10. Blue Ghost

    Blue Ghost King

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    What is Canada's gameplan supposed to be? The UA requires heavy investment in building forts and mounted units, and gives a little bit of extra territory and culture. How are you supposed to leverage that into a coherent strategy?

    Is the AI going to be able to understand the UA at all? I personally wouldn't mind a civ that's "for player use only," but it would be better if the AI could utilize it as well.

    I'm pretty sure the Feitoria-building on Exotic Goods is hardcoded in the C++. I don't think you'd be able to remove that with Lua. You'd probably need to code a separate kind of action.
     
  11. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Canada has 3 main competencies:
    - Gold generation
    - Culture/Border blobbing
    - Diplomacy

    Your standing army can offset itself by becoming a source of gold, culture and influence.
    Gameplan of the civ is diplomatic victory. the civ can drop GG citadels to grab permanent outposts. It can park mounted units to either a) block expansion of other civs by putting down borders or b) claiming luxuries far outside the Can. sphere of influence.
    Win diplomatic victory with the 2 eras' worth of your UU farming influence without the need for diplomatic units, and then combine that with THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP!!!

    If the unit's cargo action had to be changed to its own custom action, then the portrait could use the same icon as the Voyageur does for its ability. You could just call the ability "Fur Trade" in that case. If making the value of gold scale with distance from capital is too difficult, it could just be a flat 100-200g maybe.
     
  12. IcyAngel

    IcyAngel Prince

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    The Gazeboian voice in mean screams: the AI can't be taught to use your UA and UU properly! @pinneapledan
     
  13. Jarula

    Jarula King

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    How about mounted units when garrisoned create culture towards expansion SCALING with era towards the nearest city...?
     
  14. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Changed the proposed UA for canada, to forts can be built outside of borders & claim tile. Changed yields from mounted units in forts to 1 culture and 1 GGP per turn cleaned up the Fur trade unit action. Gives Canada a peaceful way to get GGs so its UA isn't dependent on warmongering for its landgrabs

    @IcyAngel I am aware that the AI wouldn't be able to use the UU very well; we've had problems like that before (*cough* Assyria *cough*) The UW is reasonably straight-forward though. straight border growth, a bit more gold and range for trade routes and a boost to units sitting in your forts.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
    IcyAngel likes this.
  15. Jarula

    Jarula King

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    If I can request one how about MCs Benin?

    Would be nice to have someone able to fight shaka
     
  16. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Idea for Israel VP port:

    Israel
    Current Israel:
    Spoiler :
    Leader: King David
    UA: Chosen People: +1 Culture on Pastures. Great Prophets grant a Combat bonus to adjacent units. Upon adopting Social Policies receive an amount of Faith.
    UU: Maccabee: The Maccabee receives a bonus on flanking attacks, unlike the Swordsman which it replaces. Every kill made by the Maccabee yields Faith
    UI: Kibbutz: Unlocked after the discovery of Economics. May only be built on farms and never adjacently to another Kibbutz increasing its Food yield, and granting +1 Faith and Culture.
    +2 Culture after the discovery
    of Radio


    VP changes:
    Spoiler :
    Leader: King David

    UA: Chosen of YHWH:
    +25% :c5strength: Combat bonus vs Barbarians and :c5faith: Faith on killing Barbarians. +3:c5faith: Faith and +3 :c5culture: Culture for Holy Sites, and +2 :c5faith: Faith on Great Works and Artifacts. Cannot Construct Temples.

    UU: Maccabee
    (Swordsman)
    unlocked at Iron working
    15CS
    Requires 1 iron
    Shock Promotion
    Homeland Guardian (+25% in owned territory)
    10% CS vs civilizations for every foreign capital they control (max of 40%)

    UB: Solomon's Temple (Great Temple)
    Unlocked at Masonry (2 techs earlier)
    Must be constructed in Capital
    Does not require Temple
    7 :c5faith:Faith, 5 :c5culture:Culture
    (up from 6:c5faith:. See what I did there?)
    +1:c5faith: for every 2 :c5citizen: citizens on Empire
    Free temple in city
    Instant boost of 200:c5faith:Faith on completion
    +75% religious pressure in city
    (100% when combined with free temple)
    30% Conversion Resistance in all cities (GlobalConversionModifier table)
    No bonus to temples (base grand temple gives 2:c5culture:/2:c5faith:)
    +1:c5faith:/+1:c5culture: for all GP tile improvements on Empire
    3 Great works of Music Slots (+5:c5culture:, +5:c5goldenage:GAP if themed. All Great Works must be your own.)

    -25%:c5unhappy: Religious needed modifier
    building cost increases with number of buildings in empire


    3rd and 4th components:
    Spoiler :
    UI: Kibbutz
    Unlocked at Economics
    May only be built on farms and never adjacent to another Kibbutz
    +5:c5food:, +5:c5culture:, +5:c5science:, +1:c5production:
    +1:c5food: to adjacent farms (to compensate for breaking up farm triangles)
    +3:c5production: to adjacent GP tile improvements
    +2:c5food: at Fertilizer
    +2:c5production: at Industrialization
    +2:c5production: at Military Science
    +2:c5science:, +2:c5culture: at Ecology

    UGP: Suffet (Great General)
    2 Moves
    Milhemet - provides bonus based on whether in friendly territory, or in neutral/enemy territory
    • Milhemet Mitzvah (friendly territory) - additional +15% CS to units within 2 tiles
    • Milhemet Reshut (neutral/enemy territory) - Enemy units who die within 2 tiles of Suffet yield random :c5greatperson:GPP in capital, (1x unit :c5strength:strength)
    Shofar - (When adjacent to enemy city, Reduces CS of city by 10, down to a minimum of 6)
    Leadership - (15% Combat for owned units within 2 tiles)
    Can be expended to boost supply cap and build Citadels

    Reasons/support for changes:
    Spoiler :
    UA
    - The old version of Israel didn't seem to have any focus. It had a bit of culture, a bit of faith. The AI also wouldn't understand that they could use Great prophets as GGs, and it was useless because the effect didn't stack with a normal GG.
    - Furthermore, it seemed like the old UA was a rather... poor reading of the Tanakh. They got +1 culture on pastures because.... David was a shepherd? They got Leadership promotion on GPs because.... bringing priests and holy relics into battle worked super well for Israel in the past? (It didn't.) They got faith on policy adoption because... I don't know.
    - These changes focus Israel on faith/GP generation, specifically for GP tiles, and faith-purchasing of GPs, and gives them a bit more defensive flavor.
    - Their main victory focus is cultural, but faith-centric civs can be flexible. The UA is relatively weak, but is compensated for by the powerful unique wonder.
    - The bonus vs Barbarians and faith is a bit close to Celts, but it is a reference to the conquest of Canaan, where the Israelites conquered their promised land
    - The faith on Great works is a reference to the Tanakh, the Hebrew bible, which is the single most influential piece of literature in Western thought. It is also a reference to the Psalms, King David himself was a prominent psalmist.
    - This kit guarantees Israel a religion, putting on par with Ethiopia in that respect.
    - The most obvious religious tenets for Israel are:
    • "Resilience" (GProphets 25% cheaper, bonus on holy sites)
    • "Knowledge through devotion" (culture on GWs, bonus on holy sites)
    • "to the Glory of God" (buy any GP with faith)
    These are enhancer and reformation beliefs, so improving/spreading religion is very high priority for Israel. Paradoxically, this puts heavy pressure for Israel to have high population/food, since its faith output scales with population, but it has no benefits for extra food production. Adopting mandirs as their first tenet would therefore be a strong choice, giving a bit more passive spread, faith generation, and food.

    UW
    - VP allows for unique national wonder replacements. Solomon's Temple is much more iconic as an aspect of Israelite history than the Kibbutz.
    - Removing the construction of temples is a reference to Solomon's temple and the tabernacle. Jewish history describes how the Israelites were banned from the creation of their own centres of worship, and were required to give their offerings at the temple in Jerusalem. This became a major issue when the nation split in two after Solomon.
    - Faith generation is much more difficult for Israel without temples, knocking out 5:c5faith: per city, which is why the wonder gives such massive bonuses to faith. The scaling on population across the entire empire should more than compensate for the lack of temples. Essentially, 10 citizens per city is parity with a temple.
    Preventing temples from being constructed also helps keep the Jewish religion's passive religious pressure low, which makes sense, since Judaism puts more emphasis on heritage than proselytizing. It did not necessarily prevent spread of the religion, and God sent messengers to other people as well (see Jonah)
    This wonder puts Israel behind Byzantium for faith generation, but only slightly.

    UU
    The Macabees used to generate faith on kills, which was even more similar to the pictish warrior than moving it to the UA. The bonus to flanking also became redundant with how the shock promotion line has been reworked in VP.
    I liked the idea of the unit having relatively limited utility outside defensive wars, and I want to express the idea that the Maccabees successfully fought wars against the Seleucid empire and Rome, much larger entities than themselves.

    Kibbutz
    - I'm always a fan of a good UI. I especially like the idea of putting a UI as late as this, since no other UIs currently exist past medieval. The yields and scaling have to be incredibly high to compensate for how late this UI is, however.
    - The requirement for having them built on a farm also increases the amount of worker turns needed, and restricts them to flat land in VP.
    - The kibbutz were secular agrarian communes (hence :c5food:) for zionists (hence :c5culture:) which were started in Mandate Palestine around WWI. They were avowedly marxist until the fall of communism, and Stalin's mistreatment of the Jewish community in the Soviet bloc. Later years saw them rolled into the Israeli Defense Force's military-industrial complex (hence :c5science:/:c5production:), making Kibbutz important parts of the weapons manufacturing supply chain. Only 5-15% of Israel's population has been living on Kibbutzim on any given year in history, but they have become a central part of the nation of Israel's national identity, making them probably the most emblematic part of Israel's rebirth.

    Suffet
    - The Shofar is a reference to the battle of Jericho, where the Israelites blew their Shofar, and the walls of the city fell. So it effectively subtracts walls from an adjacent city. This is extremely powerful in the early game, since that can mean more than half of a city's CP, but as the game wears on its value diminishes.
    - The Milhemet promotion is a reference to the idea of "holy wars" in Judaism. The Jews conquered the holy land, enlarged its borders and prevailed against invaders at the behest of their God, Yahweh. When the Israelites were defeated and their nation destroyed, it was Yahweh's punishment for their disobedience
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2018
  17. DoctorDuke

    DoctorDuke Chieftain

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    Nepal and Inuit are making me young again. Thank you, all.
     

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