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Vox Populi Compatibility Discussion

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Enginseer, Aug 12, 2018.

  1. a1nosweat

    a1nosweat Warlord

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    are there other addon civs with a 3d leader? For me thats the obvious requirement for anything labeled gold (and you/we all are so close goddammit).

    a static leader screen still makes me jump somehow. even when I've choosen and installed the mod myself.
     
  2. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    The only custom civs to ever get a 3D leader are David/Israel, Henry Parkes/Australia, Churchill/UK, and Mansa Musa/Mali. I looked at doing a VP port for Australia at one point but I just really didn’t like the civ’s kit, so I couldn’t get excited about it.

    There was some work done on an Alaric/Goths 3D leader, but I don’t think it was ever completed.

    For me, personally, I think high quality artwork (but not up to 3D leader), and a unique niche are the things I would most like to see added by the 2 custom Civs. I would like the civs chosen to rely on underexplored mechanics. For instance:
    • Ottomans are the only civ with an internal TR buff
    • There is no civ with a unique interaction with projects and processes
    • Babylon boosts GScientists, Venice boosts GMerchants, but no civ boosts GEngineers specifically
    • No civ has special interactions with certain diplomatic conditions, like friendship, denunciation, demands, defensive pacts, joint wars, or passive intimidation of CSs
    • There are some civs that get bonuses which implicitly benefit from razing, either by rewarding city captures or only rewarding settlement by yourself (Carthage, Spain, Assyria), but there is no civ’s which augments city razing directly.
    • The plague system is generally under utilized; and there are no land units that use it, and there are no debuffs used except movement.
    • I understand why G hasn’t integrated bonuses to mechanics introduced by (3)CSD and (4)C4DfVP into civs, but adding custom civs might provide an opportunity to implement unique augmentations to diplo missions, vassalization, chanceries, etc.
    Obviously these aren’t all things that are desperately missing from VP, but they are some mechanical gaps that 2 extra civs could fill in some capacity.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019
  3. Bhawb

    Bhawb Prince

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    To build on what pineappledan said, it would make sense if whatever extra leaders were included in some way specifically showcased unique parts of VP. Something that wasn't a civ that either couldn't exist without VP's unique mechanics (vassalage, corporations, diplomatic missions) or showcases/encourages exploration of some of the more heavily reworked "original" systems more than the current civs do (happiness, world congress, faith). For example, a civ that could directly interact with enemy diplomatic units (capture and ransom?) would be something that couldn't exist in vanilla.

    Unfortunately, I think this is a bit harder due to how many of the VP-compatible civs are ported mods, not VP native ones.
     
  4. a1nosweat

    a1nosweat Warlord

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    Its a brave new world you speak of. It feels like I'm reading about venice and wondering....

    I going to make a big modpack, To choose I'm just going to pick all civs which have at least one seal on the showcase page. I hope this might make getting seals 4&5 a little faster. Am I best to subscribe to the mods, Ddowload them, or check versions against each other? Are there any other pitfalls(eg compatability or load order) I might stumble upon?

    It will include events dev, info addict, and some ui mods. It won't include 2&3 uniques until next version comes out though

    Edit - it will only include one additional USA civ. and that won't be the Donald

    Edit 2...done https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/dlc-modpack-repository.609278/page-37
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
  5. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Finished with my 4UC mod for Nubia, but I ended up changing every other aspect of Nubia as well to make them more unique:
    Spoiler Nubia :


    Nubia, led by Piye
    UA: Ta-Seti
    • +2:c5production: and +10%:c5production: Production in cities with a Garrison.
    • Gain +300:c5goldenage: Golden Age Points, scaling with Era, and +5XP for all Units for each World Wonder in a newly conquered City.

    UU: Apedemak Archer (Archer)
    • 50:c5production:
    • Unlocked at Trapping
    • 7:c5strength: CS, 9:c5rangedstrength: RCS
    • 2 :c5moves: Moves
    • 2 :c5rangedstrength: Range
    • Volley Promotion
    • Blessing of Apedemak - +1 :c5moves: Movement when starting turn next to River
    • Naval Inaccuracy

    UI: Royal Pyramid

    • Unlocked at Construction
    • Buildable on flat Desert, Plains, and Grass and not adjacent to each other
    • Removes features
    • +1:c5culture:, +2:c5faith:
      • +1:c5gold: at Mathematics
      • +1:c5gold: at Physics
      • +1:c5gold:/:c5production:/:c5culture: at Architecture
      • +3:c5culture: at Archaeology
      • +1:c5culture:/:c5faith: for each Era between the Era the pyramid was constructed and the current Era
    • An Ancient Ruin is placed below any Pyramid constructed in Ancient or Classical eras. Ancient Ruins are of the same era as when the Pyramid was originally constructed.

    UU2 (4UC) - Medjay (Unique Mercenary)
    • 200:c5gold:
    • Gold Purchase Only
    • Can move after Purchase
    • no Purchase cooldown
    • Does not require Iron
    • Unlocked at Iron Working
    • 15:c5strength:
    • 2 :c5moves: Moves
    • Shock I
    • Temple Guard - +15%:c5strength:CS in friendly Territory, -10% to all :c5unhappy:Needs in City when Garrisoned :c5moves:
    If Nubia is in a game, ALL players can purchase Medjay. Nubia gains 75:c5gold: whenever any player (including Nubia itself) purchases a Medjay

    UB (4UC) - Cenobium (Workshop)
    • 350 :c5production: Production OR 300:c5faith:Faith
    • Can Purchase with Faith
    • Unlocked at Civil Service
    • No Gold Maintenance
    • 5:c5production:3:c5faith:2:c5gold:
    • +50 City HP
    • +1:c5strength: City Strength for every 2:c5faith: Faith generated by City
    • +1 :c5production: Production and +1 :c5gold: Gold to Forest
    • Allows :c5production: Production to be moved from this city along :trade: Trade Routes inside your civilization
    • 25:c5production: Production Whenever an :trade: Internal Trade Route To or From this city is completed, scaling with Era
    Spoiler Reasons for changes :
    UA Changes:
    • Garrison bonus granted to ALL units, rather than just archer units. The AI couldn't comprehend that it had to garrison a specific unit type. The ranged unit requirement, while flavorful, still felt arbitrary and limiting. The UU pulls its weight w.r.t. the archer flavor.
    • +2:c5production: flat was added to give Ta-Seti a key early advantage, since +10% doesn't result in any appreciable increase in early production.
    • The free :c5goldenage:GA on conquest of a wonder was cool, but overlapped somewhat with similar bonuses on other civs (VP Aztecs, Goths, etc.), and it functionally was identical to the Goth's bonus of free :c5goldenage:GA on capturing any :c5capital:Capital
    • The :c5goldenage:GA on conquest was added via lua, so it didn't scale with modifiers (eg. Chichen Itza). Enginseer fixed this by spawning a GArtist on conquest, then using a ForceMission to have the GArtist trigger the :c5goldenage:GA. This caused 2 problems:
      • It triggered a :tourism:historical event, which was never the intended purpose of this
      • Gazebo broke this functionality by changing GArtists to give a lump sum of :c5goldenage:GAPs instead, so it had to be changed to something else anyways.
    • There was no bonus for capturing multiple Wonders, which makes the wonder bonus functionally the same as any bonus on city conquest (Spain, Assyria, etc.), except that it only triggered some of the time.
    • I scrapped the +%:c5goldenage:GA length because it functionally was too close to Persia's bonus, but without any of the complimentary aspects of Persia's full kit (eg. the bonus move, the Satrap's court, etc.) The scaling by wonder was perfunctory; it often topped out at 50% by the time you reached your second GA anyways.

    UU Changes:
    • Just swapped Siege for Volley; very minor change
    • Volley gives the UU a bit of utility vs encamped barbarians that siege doesn't. If you are having taking too much time clearing away the barbs, too many nearby camps can dilute your core early snowball advantage with bad RNG.
    • The River movement promotion never actually worked in the vanilla mod, even though it was supposed to

    UI Changes:
    • The UI originally could be built on plains but not grass, which was weirdly arbitrary and a pain in the ass. The differences between these two tile types is almost imperceptible, unless you are playing with all tile yields visible. You weren't going to use that RAM for anything useful anyways, right?
    • The +10%:c5strength: for adjacent units on a UI that can be built on most flat terrain functionally translated into a +10%:c5strength: bonus to units in your own land. Hello Shoshone.
    • This bonus wasn't meaningfully different from Polynesia's Moai bonus, but at least the Moai bonus is locked to defending coast, whereas the pyramid is potentially all over the place. This makes it bereft of tactical nuance, saturated, and even more similar to Shoshone Encampments.
    • The Ancient Ruin placement was an Enginseer addition. It makes these UIs a trade-off between :c5culture::c5faith: or :c5culture::c5gold: once Archaeology is founded, and means that you will have to constantly defend yourself from other civs trying to loot your territory with Archaeologists. A very interesting mechanic. With the recent changes to Landmarks, and the addition of :c5citystate:WC votes from Holy Land, this may be too powerful. Wait and see.
    • I have locked the Ruins spawning to pre-Medieval pyramids for now. I may move that to ancient pyramids only if it is still resulting in too many Pyramids. This limitation ensures that your borders weren't so big, and you could just spam pyramids to farm Landmarks/Artifacts in later eras.
    • This adds a serious culture victory or diplo victory potential, with the right policies/beliefs, in addition to Nubia's hard focus on conquest.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019
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  6. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Hotfix. The original mod didn't remove features when building the royal pyramid (marshes and forests). This has been fixed, along with a few minor text tweaks

    EDIT: forgot that polders don't remove marsh anymore. NOW it's fixed
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
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  7. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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  8. Jarula

    Jarula King

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    Hey pineapple great idea for one a alternate germany...

    20% combat bonus goes down by 1% per GPP birthplace
    Each GPP birthplace grants +5% towards that specialist +2 gpp and +2 of that yield (are capturable)

    UU Jaegar Scout with combat promos (shock and drill) slightly higher cost than fusilier same base combat strength
    UB Biergarten +15% gpp instead of 25% +5% gp per friend Ally or dof +2% C per same.
    +5 SWA science and culture on GP expend.

    3rd uniques
    Slaganz
    Teutonic order...

    Basically a Germany that tries to capture the 1000 year German Renaissance thinkers etc... While simultaneously capturing the early germany aggression.
     
  9. JFD

    JFD Kathigitarkh

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    Hitler also did, and Churchill did indeed but that one was never implemented. Stalin was supposedly in the works but thats lost to the ages now.
     
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  10. Jarula

    Jarula King

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    The Stalin mod felt off the UA didn't really feel like an accurate representation. The Soviet Union didn't really have city States. The progress associated with Stalin was massive internal development (infant mortality rates declined and life expectancy went higher at the fastest rate in recorded history actually look it up the humanitarian benefits of the Stalin Era is calculated to be a net gain of 100,000,000 saved lives he literally lost 4 of his siblings before age 10 and his first wife/love of his life died in Childbirth) (reason I care so much my first love was Russian part of my family moved to the US after converting in the pograms and part of my family is Kyrgz +1 of my cousins came from a Russian orphanage and went to college for eastern European studies in addition to me being a longtime communist who has actually researched such things) in addition industrial production climbed 10 fold massively. Very similar to the representation of Germany similar to Rome the character of the era is VERY historically inaccurate.

    It is like making a civ for historical Tang China and naming the uniques Ching and Chong giving them a bonus towards railway building... Or one for subsaharan Africa where it's unique unit is slaves... (Basically my point is some of the mods are insanely derogatory unfactual even racist)

    A better more accurate UA would be while at peace a increase in food generation production in cities that have a positive happiness value at war huge increase towards production of units but start out with 0 XP and all population growth halts.

    UU red army gains a random amount of experience 1-10 from combat to represent the heroism of the army reduced combat strength great generals 1 can attack twice and survivalism 1 random XP doesn't pass down.

    UB Soviet replacing stock exchange reduces social policy cost provides less gold; culture gold science and production when city grows SWA

    UU2 partisans can only be trained at war if a territory of yours has been captured trains there ignores terrain cost no cost to pillage bonus outside of territory and on attack +bonus towards wounded scout replacement invisible does not pass down (the invisibility part)

    UB 2 constabulary increases food and production from internal trade route increases unhappiness if a spy is stationed there increases all yields and happiness.

    Y... Cas FACTS... Numbers... Statistics... Actual truth...
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
  11. JFD

    JFD Kathigitarkh

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    The City-State focus in my Stalin is intended to be mechanically analogous to the Soviet Union's sphere of influence, i.e. with City-States standing in for the Soviet statellite states. Its not intended to be a complete picture of Stalin's reign, as no mod of mine is intended in such a way to be representational; instead, they are intended to take a distinctive characteristic associated with the Civ or Leader (in this case, more the Civ) and make a distinctive mechanic out of it. The equivalenacies you present border on the ridiculous and devolve into nonsensical rambling, to be frank. I'm happy to have members of VP redesign my civs (or, re-use my work) provided a VP dependency is in play, but I ask for some degree of respect and trust that my work is reasoned.
     
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  12. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Which is why I think that if someone were to make a full VP compatibility for Stalin's Soviets, they would merely extend the UA's damage bonus to vassals, since VP effectively has a "satellite state" mechanic.
    All that would be required after that would be some form of buff to the commissariat to get the civ a little more on the same power-level as the other VP civs.

    It's a good design, especially for use by the AI, because they can make effective use of it passively.
     
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  13. Jarula

    Jarula King

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    Sorry not ridiculous. Very factually accurate. Your work with Civ 5 is completely epic I am a huge fan. Even though my parents met doing peace corps in Cameroon I could never make a mod on the MRI and my skills at programming are terrible.

    But especially cold war history is my strong suit. The Soviet Union most definitely. Stalin is a personal hero of mine. Ive even read his embarrassing letters with his mom. I know a lot about his regime.

    With one of my relatives from there we discussed him. The progress during his regime humanitarian wise was astounding but the death toll associated with certain aspects was also bad.

    Would I have executed the grandfather of the girl I love or sent her grandmother to a gulag no never but when faced with the statistical prospect of her never being born or her parents dying at 2 or this or that there's no question the mathematics more than exonerate him a man who watched the love of his life die in his arms.

    Even foreign wise he was less of a bully than the United States BY FAR. Especially the way we treated Latin America heck you might as well do one for America all city states on your continent allied to you lose 1 population every 15 turns they are your ally you gain gold scaling with era for their population loss. (For historical accuracy)
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
  14. Kim Dong Un

    Kim Dong Un The One & Unly Supporter

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    My proposal for resolving this conflict is to divert all further efforts into accommodating the Kim dynasty into VP. It would greatly please Glorious Supreme Leader, as it's been the most belated issue since day one.

    UA: Kimpossible
    • At any point in the game, this civ may claim all opposing players to be unworthy, resulting in immediate victory
    UI: Grand Monument on Mansu Hill
    • Unlocked at Construction
    • May be built adjacently on any land tile, connects luxuries and claims surrounding un-owned tiles when built
    • +5 of every yield, and produces + 10 Great General points per turn (both scale with era)
    UB: Nuclear Silo (replaces Shrine)
    • Can purchase with Faith
    • Reveals uranium within 10 tiles of the city in which it is built
    • Allows for the construction and purchase of Nuclear Missiles once Military Theory has been researched
    UU: Korean People's Army (replaces Worker)
    • Can improve tiles, and at twice the speed
    • Can Melee attack with 10 CS, increasing by 10 every era
     
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  15. Jarula

    Jarula King

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    Actually you could do one for Sung that would be decent.

    UA +30 % building in capital
    +5% elsewhere if building is in capital (Pyongyang is a very impressive city)

    UW some associated monument in North Korea

    UU people's army have to look up more on them from Korean War. For each one two is created.

    His son and grandson are Not representative of his legacy. His grandson is better than his father but still it's a feudalistic monarchy nothing more with racist overtones.

    Kim was more decent North Korea actually used to be rich until the fall of the Soviet Union and the later Kim's kept screwing it up. Unlike Cuba who after the fall of the USSR said we did this we do this for the people. We earn our rule through our devotion to them. North Korea was still in a state of war the US killed 20% of their population with military strikes on civilian targets in the Korean war like a person badly hurt they are in defense mode.

    They want nukes to protect their fiefdom... Its not a Communist country... Its like Nazbols (quasi fascists touting the hammer and sickle) it's a monarchy that flies the hammer and sickle...

    Stalin had a lot to say about that when his son (2 of his sons fought in WW2 his eldest who was captured the third Reich tried to trade him for German high command Stalin responded I have thousands of sons will you let all my people go thus his firstborn son killed himself Stalin loved his mom a lot she died giving birth to him to him Everytime he saw him it was like a reminder of the woman who at her funeral proclaimed "With her death dies all faith in the goodness of humanity or the world"... His second son served in the air force) tried to use his father as a means of self promotion he publicly responded heck no providing a public polemic.

    Stalin wasn't a narcissist like millionaires kings and queens because he already had everything he grew up being beaten within an inch of his life he took beatings to protect his mom the town priests literally banished his father from town not to mention his face being permanently disfigured from smallpox and getting ran over by a carriage at age 11 meaning one arm was shorter than the other both things he tried to hide with touch ups he grew up being bullied a lot for it as a kid.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
  16. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    To be clear, what members of the civfanatics community say within the subforum for VP does not mean said statements are tacitly approved by the VP team. In other words, I'm with you on this one.

    G
     
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  17. Kim Dong Un

    Kim Dong Un The One & Unly Supporter

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    Arguably the most tragic part of his story.
     
  18. notque

    notque Artificially Intelligent

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    Papel States no longer works.
     

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