VP Forum Improvement Suggestions

[Recursive]

Hi everyone,

I just moved several threads relating to balance issues to the General Balance subforum. Trying to keep the forum tidy since I'm now moderating it.

No one's in trouble, I realize the attitude towards this has been rather casual, but I think it'd be less confusing for newcomers in particular if threads were in better order.

Things still feel a bit cluttered to me, looking at the forum. In particular there's a number of threads about bugs in the main forum (as regulars are aware, bug reports should go on Github).

I'd like to make improvements to the forum's organization, improve help information and stickied threads, perhaps formalize a few subforum-specific rules to make conversations more constructive, but I'm not certain how I could effectively do this, and I'd definitely like ideas from the VP community on this, as it'd ultimately be for your benefit.

Please suggest away if you have any ideas on how the forum could be better structured.

 

[dpshw]

with regards to bugs and reporting them: maybe there is some sort of webhook/addon/plugin that would allow to sync issue/threads? i doubt many non-dev people are "native" to github enough to navigate it properly, so having such way to sync issues would help increase awareness in both environments. i'm a gitlab guys though, so unfortunately can't help much with xenforo and/or github

 

[skodkim]

Hi everyone,

I just moved several threads relating to balance issues to the General Balance subforum. Trying to keep the forum tidy since I'm now moderating it.

No one's in trouble, I realize the attitude towards this has been rather casual, but I think it'd be less confusing for newcomers in particular if threads were in better order.

Things still feel a bit cluttered to me, looking at the forum. In particular there's a number of threads about bugs in the main forum (as regulars are aware, bug reports should go on Github).

I'd like to make improvements to the forum's organization, improve help information and stickied threads, perhaps formalize a few subforum-specific rules to make conversations more constructive, but I'm not certain how I could effectively do this, and I'd definitely like ideas from the VP community on this, as it'd ultimately be for your benefit.

Please suggest away if you have any ideas on how the forum could be better structured.

Totally agree that bug reports should go on Github and I even feel you should/could just ignore them if they're only osted here.

That being said this is also a discussion forum and I feel it's ok if bugs are discussed here. Sometimes we even find out that its intended or that other prople don't see the same bugs (I certainly find out that its mod conflicts some time). That also works like a kind of filter for you developers so that the bug reports you do get in github are probably better/more correct.

And once again: APPRECIATE ALL YOUR FANTASTIC WORK!

\Skodkim

 

[Stalker0]

Likely a good spot for newbies to weigh in, as I'm so used to the format that I'm probably biased. I will say I think the general breakdown is pretty good. Honestly the forum is both highly active but not a lot of new threads get made all the time, so I don't think heavy organization is needed, and honestly can do more harm than good. Example: I look at the "Quick Questions" thread much less often now because I forget its in the sticky section. Generally threads that are put in their own subforum don't get as much attention, so I wouldn't add more subforums personally, I think the ones we have our fine.

 

[InkAxis]

Yeah it's kind of ironic, threads that get stickied are more ignored. Partially because the site UI but also you just skip past them.

 

[Melchizedek]

I'm relatively new. I agree it looks kind of cluttered, and at first it wasn't easy for me to find things. I'd suggest that a reorg could start to highlight strategy more than balance. Not that balance discussions disappear, but as VP gets more complete naturally we should start having fewer conversation about OP or underpowered options and more conversations that take the rules for granted and discover ways to work within them.

I also thought the book recommendation thread that was recently locked as off topic was interesting, although of course I agree with the decision to lock it if it is currently against the rules. Could an off topic subsection make sense? I think VP players are on average a smart and interesting set and discussing other topics could be fun. Agree it shouldn't show up right on the main page, though.

 

[Recursive]

Likely a good spot for newbies to weigh in, as I'm so used to the format that I'm probably biased. I will say I think the general breakdown is pretty good. Honestly the forum is both highly active but not a lot of new threads get made all the time, so I don't think heavy organization is needed, and honestly can do more harm than good. Example: I look at the "Quick Questions" thread much less often now because I forget its in the sticky section. Generally threads that are put in their own subforum don't get as much attention, so I wouldn't add more subforums personally, I think the ones we have our fine.

Yeah it's kind of ironic, threads that get stickied are more ignored. Partially because the site UI but also you just skip past them.

I have noticed this about QQ, QA since it was stickied actually, and I think it worked well enough before, so...zip.

I'm not thinking of anything too major, but my own thoughts are that better help information and perhaps a better system for managing bug discussions on the forums would be helpful here. I wanted to see if others had specific ideas for structural improvements.

I'm relatively new. I agree it looks kind of cluttered, and at first it wasn't easy for me to find things. I'd suggest that a reorg could start to highlight strategy more than balance. Not that balance discussions disappear, but as VP gets more complete naturally we should start having fewer conversation about OP or underpowered options and more conversations that take the rules for granted and discover ways to work within them.

I also thought the book recommendation thread that was recently locked as off topic was interesting, although of course I agree with the decision to lock it if it is currently against the rules. Could an off topic subsection make sense? I think VP players are on average a smart and interesting set and discussing other topics could be fun. Agree it shouldn't show up right on the main page, though.

I think the prominence of balance discussions versus strategy discussions will change naturally as the mod gets closer to "gold", and this isn't something that restructuring would particularly benefit. But I'll be active in moving balance discussions to the Balance subforums if they're posted in the main forum.

Advertising is not permitted under site rules. There is an existing Off Topic forum for the entire site if you want to discuss your favorite books.

 

[Recursive]

with regards to bugs and reporting them: maybe there is some sort of webhook/addon/plugin that would allow to sync issue/threads? i doubt many non-dev people are "native" to github enough to navigate it properly, so having such way to sync issues would help increase awareness in both environments. i'm a gitlab guys though, so unfortunately can't help much with xenforo and/or github

Totally agree that bug reports should go on Github and I even feel you should/could just ignore them if they're only osted here.

That being said this is also a discussion forum and I feel it's ok if bugs are discussed here. Sometimes we even find out that its intended or that other prople don't see the same bugs (I certainly find out that its mod conflicts some time). That also works like a kind of filter for you developers so that the bug reports you do get in github are probably better/more correct.

And once again: APPRECIATE ALL YOUR FANTASTIC WORK!

\Skodkim

I agree there can be merit to discussing bugs here, but it shouldn't be clogging up the main threads/forum the way it is. Perhaps a dedicated bug discussion thread? The problem with that idea, though, is that it encourages people to make posts there instead of on Github, and Github posts are needed to fix them.

 

[dpshw]

I agree there can be merit to discussing bugs here, but it shouldn't be clogging up the main threads/forum the way it is. Perhaps a dedicated bug discussion thread? The problem with that idea, though, is that it encourages people to make posts there instead of on Github, and Github posts are needed to fix them.

if bugs can be sync'd to github you can just move them into a subforum whenever someone uninitiated reports a bug in here. moving to this subforum should trigger a github issue being spawned with link to the forum, so documentation is preserved and discussion can exist in both places (forums for normies like me and github for the more tech side to the report)

... that said IF this is possible.

 

[Recursive]

if bugs can be sync'd to github you can just move them into a subforum whenever someone uninitiated reports a bug in here. moving to this subforum should trigger a github issue being spawned with link to the forum, so documentation is preserved and discussion can exist in both places (forums for normies like me and github for the more tech side to the report)

... that said IF this is possible.

I don't see how this would be possible beyond setting up some kind of bot to synchronize messages. This can't be done on the forum side. Maybe it can be done on the Github side, but I don't know how to do so (and G would need to approve of that as well).

If anyone has any other suggestions, please feel free to speak up.

 

[2506]

I agree there can be merit to discussing bugs here, but it shouldn't be clogging up the main threads/forum the way it is. Perhaps a dedicated bug discussion thread? The problem with that idea, though, is that it encourages people to make posts there instead of on Github, and Github posts are needed to fix them.

This is a tough one. I find bug and CTD posts on the main forum create too much clutter, but have also noticed that they are often by players with very few posts. That makes sense... and is also a harder issue to address, since they're the least likely to know here and where not to post.

 

[2506]

Advertising is not permitted under site rules. There is an existing Off Topic forum for the entire site if you want to discuss your favorite books.

Advertising aside... any reason why there couldn't be an OT subforum for VP? I'd rather discuss books or whatever with the people I see around here than with ones too ignorant to play VP.

 

[tsmith7163]

I love and really enjoy the forum - I’ve followed for years but kinda in and out looking for certain answers when playing or reading different play throughs or strategies or helpful hints - so I would still consider myself a newbie - I do agree it’s it is kind of all across-the-board and sometimes can be fairly overwhelming but for me in the way that I search things it’s not always such a bad thing - as I will be searching for new monopoly bonuses/strategies and find posts that talk about leader personalities, appropriate naval strategies for naval combat and how to better configure map settings- Lol- so I would certainly like an easier way to go find stuff that I’m specifically seeking but I think that may be difficult to do as there is so many different types of information plus I don’t use the forum enough to really know what sub forms to go into- I mean they’re fairly intuitive if you look at them but usually I’m more interested in playing my game. -
As I spend more time on the forum I become more familiar with it and it becomes easier to navigate- I like the new tutorial for new players, I found an updated happiness video which was really good and helpful in the happiness posts and then the quick answers quick questions is also pretty good when I have questions- One thought I had and I don’t know if it’s possible and I don’t know if it’s already been done but a lot of times I will play for a couple months and then I’ll go a couple months off and so there’s been sometimes multiple new additions and I need to go back and look at all the changelogs and sometimes read all the posts for those changelogs( which is really not that bad but you did ask for suggestions) - it does seem less now as game becomes perfected - but my suggestion is what about having all changes or change logs and patches in one area? You would still keep them as post on the main site but then just make another copy or link for the subforum - so if I get busy at work and can’t play for a year - I can go to one area and see the changes and the evolution of those changes-?

 

[brutalz]

Maybe sticky the QQ QA thread at the bottom of the stickies?

 

[azum4roll]

I agree there should be a stickied thread with changelogs of every version (including the hotfixes, and possibly hidden changes pointed out by players). It's difficult to find a specific change currently, e.g. when was the last happiness change?

 

[Recursive]

I love and really enjoy the forum - I’ve followed for years but kinda in and out looking for certain answers when playing or reading different play throughs or strategies or helpful hints - so I would still consider myself a newbie - I do agree it’s it is kind of all across-the-board and sometimes can be fairly overwhelming but for me in the way that I search things it’s not always such a bad thing - as I will be searching for new monopoly bonuses/strategies and find posts that talk about leader personalities, appropriate naval strategies for naval combat and how to better configure map settings- Lol- so I would certainly like an easier way to go find stuff that I’m specifically seeking but I think that may be difficult to do as there is so many different types of information plus I don’t use the forum enough to really know what sub forms to go into- I mean they’re fairly intuitive if you look at them but usually I’m more interested in playing my game. -
As I spend more time on the forum I become more familiar with it and it becomes easier to navigate- I like the new tutorial for new players, I found an updated happiness video which was really good and helpful in the happiness posts and then the quick answers quick questions is also pretty good when I have questions- One thought I had and I don’t know if it’s possible and I don’t know if it’s already been done but a lot of times I will play for a couple months and then I’ll go a couple months off and so there’s been sometimes multiple new additions and I need to go back and look at all the changelogs and sometimes read all the posts for those changelogs( which is really not that bad but you did ask for suggestions) - it does seem less now as game becomes perfected - but my suggestion is what about having all changes or change logs and patches in one area? You would still keep them as post on the main site but then just make another copy or link for the subforum - so if I get busy at work and can’t play for a year - I can go to one area and see the changes and the evolution of those changes-?

I agree there should be a stickied thread with changelogs of every version (including the hotfixes, and possibly hidden changes pointed out by players). It's difficult to find a specific change currently, e.g. when was the last happiness change?

A stickied thread with changelogs sounds like a great idea.

Maybe sticky the QQ QA thread at the bottom of the stickies?

Not possible with the forum software.

 

[Alpharius]

I agree there should be a stickied thread with changelogs of every version (including the hotfixes, and possibly hidden changes pointed out by players). It's difficult to find a specific change currently, e.g. when was the last happiness change?

Seconded

 

[dostillevi]

I'd be curious if there's the same level of activity on threads in sub-forums as on the main forum. For example I don't really expect my thread on policy selection to get any more comments now that it's in strategy because there will be far fewer eyeballs on it. Not complaining, just an observation. I'd happily go to a dedicated topic thread to post content, but I don't find that I generally click through a bunch of sub-forums when I'm casually skimming the forums. Not sure if this is true of others or just me, and I can adapt.

 

[dostillevi]

Ok so I had some more thoughts, because of course I do...

Overall goals of forum design include ease of finding relevant content and promoting engagement imo. What that means though is probably very specific to the forum and it's existing community. I guess I'd say firstly that there isn't really any inherent value to "organization" if that structure makes content harder to find (oh, I didn't think to look in THAT sub-sub forum), or fractures the userbase such that topics that may generally be interesting or relevant to many members are located in sub-forums that aren't highly frequented. The other side of this is having too much content on too many varying topics in one forum, with too much interaction that makes it difficult for a person to keep up with everything going on, especially if posts fall off the main page in less than a few days.

I think it's my last point that really sticks - if content is generally relevant and there isn't too much activity, there's no need to put it in a sub-forum. If there's content that is targeted to a purpose rather than to the general forum user base (bug reports, feature suggestions), then it makes sense to me to have sub-forums for that kind of content.

When it comes to content discovery I do most of mine via google, which often brings me back to posts on this site. Any other method of discovery is unlikely to be successful, with the exception of key sticky posts like lists of compatible mods. I can see how in theory it might be beneficial to group posts by topic into sub-forums, but I don't know that in practice it really improves discovery since those posts, by virtue of their sub-forum location, won't get the kind of robust conversation they might if they were in the main forum and therefore won't be as valuable. I'm curious on other opinions though.

 

[Recursive]

Ok so I had some more thoughts, because of course I do...

Overall goals of forum design include ease of finding relevant content and promoting engagement imo. What that means though is probably very specific to the forum and it's existing community. I guess I'd say firstly that there isn't really any inherent value to "organization" if that structure makes content harder to find (oh, I didn't think to look in THAT sub-sub forum), or fractures the userbase such that topics that may generally be interesting or relevant to many members are located in sub-forums that aren't highly frequented. The other side of this is having too much content on too many varying topics in one forum, with too much interaction that makes it difficult for a person to keep up with everything going on, especially if posts fall off the main page in less than a few days.

I think it's my last point that really sticks - if content is generally relevant and there isn't too much activity, there's no need to put it in a sub-forum. If there's content that is targeted to a purpose rather than to the general forum user base (bug reports, feature suggestions), then it makes sense to me to have sub-forums for that kind of content.

When it comes to content discovery I do most of mine via google, which often brings me back to posts on this site. Any other method of discovery is unlikely to be successful, with the exception of key sticky posts like lists of compatible mods. I can see how in theory it might be beneficial to group posts by topic into sub-forums, but I don't know that in practice it really improves discovery since those posts, by virtue of their sub-forum location, won't get the kind of robust conversation they might if they were in the main forum and therefore won't be as valuable. I'm curious on other opinions though.

The question to me then becomes "why have subforums if they're not consistently used to separate a specific type of topic from the rest"?

If people would rather not have some of the subforums, perhaps the community could vote on that. My understanding is that it's been useful to separate the different types of discussions about the mod, and @Gazebo consults the balance subforums frequently. But I can't speak for everyone.

I'd also argue that threads in subforums might be getting less visibility in part because categorization has been inconsistent.