VQ02 - Predetermined City Placement

Its not that AIs are good at capturing city, they still suck. A decent human player, unless rushing for time, will never capture a city at the kind of casualty rate the AI is swallowing. Especially not if they are superior both numerically and technologically to the city defenders.

Its a sad day for VQers ... :sad:

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Although we are not officially finished... It's merely a matter of another turnset or two. I'm going to start a little post-mordem.

Even though I agree the variant hindered us somewhat, I think the single biggest problem we had was the map. It was just too hard to get any cities growing when 90% of the tiles were plains, and cows were the only resources. There were just no tiles that gave us enough food. We couldn't grow quick enough to get cottages up and running or get any production out of a city.

After this one is finished, and the state of VQ03... I think it's time for a REVENGE! SG. Us against Vicky, Tokagowa, Hatty... on a small(ish) map with our sole purpose being conquest. Who's with me? :ar15: :hammer: :ninja:
 
Agreed, the AI is letting me pick off wounded attackers and is going after my most heavily defended city first instead of picking off the two weaker ones on the side. I made sure to get a medic promoted unit in my cities to handle the collateral damage - I have been suprised at how often the Artillery has been able to withdraw tho. Upsets me to no end!

I checked all the other AIs and except for Gahndi, they all like Vicky. There's a defensive block of Mansa, Freddy, and Cyrus - so if you can bring any one of them in... well I'd just have to giggle.

Vicky is losing power in these attacks - the longer we can hold on, the greater the difference between her and the others will grow. I'm not sure if the AIs take that into account, but I assume they do since sometimes they'll say "We fear their military might" in refusing to join a war. I doubt we can bleed her enough.

What else... Vicky does not have open borders with Gahndi, so if you can hide us behind his borders... that would be awesome. Too bad Freddy settled NW of us and Vicky can move through his lands. Still there's an option there for survival.
 
Maquis said:
Even though I agree the variant hindered us somewhat, I think the single biggest problem we had was the map. It was just too hard to get any cities growing when 90% of the tiles were plains, and cows were the only resources. There were just no tiles that gave us enough food. We couldn't grow quick enough to get cottages up and running or get any production out of a city.
Click to expand...

I'd disagree with you there. The problem I saw was that we ticked off too many AIs by attacking, taking one city, razing it, and then taking peace. That amounted to slapping them in the face and then turning our back. We did the right thing in prosecuting Hatty - perhaps too well as we could have left her one city to the far west alone and brought those forces back home to beat down someone else.

Summary: we weren't aggresive enough.
 
I think it is a combination of all these and the fact that it was on prince. While we are probably all at least prince players now, we won our first on noble. Prince plus this variant plus this map probably pushed up the difficulty a bit. Add to that bobrath's point about upsetting the AI, and the fact that we spent much time going after hatty early on (without the commerce to bring us back), led to disaster.

Even still, we may have had a shot at culture if vicky wouldn't have attacked us again... Thats how you learn though!
 
Post-mortem before we are dead? That is a Pre-mortem! ::lol:

I am more inclined to agree with bobrath, but I have my own views. True, we have not been agressive enough, but we were worrying about economy. In a plain vallina game, I would usually jump in whenever someone whine abt economy and recommend that we concentrate on the war first, worry about economy later. However, in this variant, I am not sure that is right. The thing abt war is you capture cities, pillaging on the way. These will actually boost your economy after the cities revolt quelled, so you focus on the war and forget abt economy .... it will heal itself.

In our variant, we had a 24 in 25 chance that we are going to raze the city. So an early war does not help us. I would recommend not going to war if possible, but we are forced to war since we need to expand due to all the plains around us.

I agree we could have handle the war better, though. If we had been swift, and dealt a more decisive blow on Vicky (instead of finishing Hatty off, marshalling our troops towards Saladin and then performing a U-Turn), things might be different ... noticed I said might, coz I suspect even if we had been able to give Vicky crippling blow, I suspect we would be forced by our variant to declare on Frederick. So the same thing might happen, just substitue Vicky with Frederick.

I am definitely on for a revenge SG, but why Toku? I would put Washington in instead ... he chose unwisely earlier on, remember?

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I am definitely on for a revenge SG, but why Toku? I would put Washington in instead
Click to expand...

I put Toku in there from VQ03... since he's caused us as much of a problem as Vicky in this game :)

I can also put Washington in the revenge game... I almost forgot about his prior transgressions...
 
Oh well I guess that's good. The last time I played with those huge SoD's knocking on my city was depressing.

I think I agree with most of your opinions on what went wrong. I wonder maybe we should have tried to expand and get our basic 9 cities out quicker than we did it. Who knows if we were quicker we might not have had to go to war with the English. Although the Egyptian war was inevitable I believe. Maybe we shouldn't have finished them off but left like 2 cities or so. Either way looking at the map and our variant might have pushed our difficulty up to monarch and maybe emperor level. Might be interesting to try to this variant again with a few more games under our belt.

Revenge SG - This sounds like fun. Definitely put Toku, Vicky, Hatty, and Americans. Might be fun to make it an all war sg maybe on noble. (I think AW makes it harder, right? If not we can do it on prince.)
 
Alas ... So Long, The Roman Empire

Neopolis is the next to fall ...



Survivors of Neopolis said:
Turn 360 (1950 AD)
Infantry defeats (15.40/20): English Artillery
Infantry defeats (0.40/20): English Artillery
Infantry loses to: English Artillery (14.40/18)
Infantry defeats (4.20/20): English Artillery
Rifleman loses to: English Cavalry (7.20/15)
Rifleman loses to: English Cavalry (3.75/15)
Rifleman loses to: English Cavalry (11.25/15)
Rifleman loses to: English Cavalry (15.00/15)
Infantry loses to: English Cavalry (15.00/15)
Infantry loses to: English Cavalry (15.00/15)
Infantry loses to: English Cavalry (15.00/15)
Judaism has spread: Neapolis
Hinduism has spread: Neapolis
Buddhism has spread: Neapolis
Confucianism has spread: Neapolis
Neapolis lost
Click to expand...
Pretty good use of the artilleries, I must concede.

And then, its my turn!!! :hammer:

Yeah, right, so what? What could I possibly do?

This is what:

Infantry defeats (12.00/20): English Artillery
Infantry defeats (12.00/20): English Cavalry

Turn 361 (1951 AD)
Arpinum finishes: Infantry :whipped:

Turn 362 (1952 AD)
Arpinum begins: Catapult
Infantry promoted: City Garrison I

Turn 363 (1953 AD)
Arpinum finishes: Catapult :whipped:
Infantry defeats (17.20/20): English Cavalry
Infantry defeats (11.60/20): English Cavalry
Click to expand...

Every dog has its day!

And then, its Vicky's turn again ...



Survivors from Arretium said:
Turn 364 (1954 AD)
Infantry defeats (20.00/20): English Artillery
Infantry defeats (13.80/20): English Artillery
Infantry loses to: English Artillery (13.32/18)
Infantry loses to: English Cavalry (15.00/15)
Longbowman loses to: English Cavalry (15.00/15)
Archer loses to: English Cavalry (15.00/15)
Archer loses to: English Cavalry (15.00/15)
Judaism has spread: Arretium
Hinduism has spread: Arretium
Confucianism has spread: Arretium
Arretium lost
Click to expand...

Sign ... and finally a last ditch effort ...



Despite the heroic sacrifice of the catapults, the inevitable must arrive ...

By-Watcher said:
Turn 365 (1955 AD)
Arpinum begins: Catapult
Arpinum grows: 4
Arpinum finishes: Catapult

Turn 366 (1956 AD)
Catapult promoted: Barrage I

Turn 367 (1957 AD)
Infantry defeats (20.00/20): English Artillery
Infantry defeats (14.00/20): English Infantry

Turn 368 (1958 AD)

Turn 369 (1959 AD)
Arpinum finishes: Infantry

Turn 370 (1960 AD)
Arpinum begins: Catapult :whipped:
Infantry promoted: City Garrison I
Infantry defeats (7.20/20): English Infantry
Infantry defeats (12.20/20): English Infantry
Infantry defeats (10.40/20): English Infantry
Infantry loses to: English Cavalry (10.50/15)
Infantry loses to: English Cavalry (6.00/15)
Rifleman defeats (6.16/14): English Cavalry
Infantry defeats (0.80/20): English Cavalry
Infantry loses to: English Cavalry (0.15/15)
Longbowman loses to: English Cavalry (9.60/15)
Rifleman loses to: English Cavalry (6.90/15)

Turn 371 (1961 AD)
Tech learned: Democracy
GreyFox: Gandhi gifted us democracy ... what a nice guy, ha!
Infantry promoted: City Garrison II
Catapult loses to: English Cavalry (3.45/15)
Research begun: Scientific Method
Arpinum finishes: Catapult
Infantry defeats (2.80/20): English Cavalry
Longbowman defeats (6.00/6): English Cavalry
Archer loses to: English Artillery (15.84/18)
Infantry loses to: English Artillery (12.60/18)
Longbowman defeats (0.48/6): English Cavalry
Longbowman loses to: English Cavalry (10.50/15)
Catapult loses to: English Cavalry (7.50/15)
Catapult loses to: English Cavalry (11.85/15)
Judaism has spread: Arpinum
Hinduism has spread: Arpinum
Buddhism has spread: Arpinum
Confucianism has spread: Arpinum
Arpinum lost
Click to expand...



And to rub salt into a dead man's wound, we were rated Dan Qualye [pissed]



... ... ...

However, I pride myself for surving another 10 turns, could have handed over to eektor :lol: ... but I saved him the humiliation.

The replay, if anyone wants it in his hall of frame to remember the sorrowful Roman song ...
 
Now that the game is done, when do we start the VQ02R - The Revenge of No-City-Planning? Or should we wait for our "almost inevitable" demise of VQ03 and do a VQ02/03R - Revenge of No-City-Planning Resource Collectors? :lol:

:hmm: ... if VQ02/03R, ... what Civ should we use ... a "modded" Roman-Persians hybrids? Or a team game, Romans and Persians are teamed? :crazyeye:

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I vote revenge.

We can make this a VQ02 revenge game, or combine them (adding in Toka from VQ03)

If we want to make it interesting, we can do an Always War, or Almost Always War (we must be at war with at least one other civ at all times)

Anyone object to dropping the difficulty to noble for whichever of these we choose? AW at Prince would only lead to us being slaughtered again :lol:
 
Dropping to Noble is not as sweet a revenge as a Prince-level win. Prince is definitely doable, we just need no variant to push the difficulty 2 levels up ... :lol:

No need to be always war, the only requirement is conqest ... leave no enemy standing!

It will be classic Roman Praets rush and slaughter ....

We can always do revenge first ... (it will be a quick one), and then proceed to the Obsidian-City-Placement (Monarch?)

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OK, sounds like no-go on the AW. Prince, Conquest, how about map type? Pangea? That way we can get to all AIs ASAP?
 
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