VQ06b - Emperor just win!

[eektor]

@ GreyFox I went to Los Angeles for a friend's wedding and then to Phoenix for a business convention. Not too much of a vacation since I had meetings and seminars all week.

I looked at the save. First of all congradulations on finishing off KK. Second of all we are looking pretty good I think. I think we need to continue building up our infrastructure, but with chemistry coming up I guess it would be better to get to war with our rival.

On regards to our next opponent I'm kind of wary of attacking Cyrus. I know the advantages of attacking him, but with JC next to us it makes me nervous. Especially the fact that he is more powerful than us. (It seems like anytime he is more powerful than you he has a good chance of attacking you.)

In regards to Cyrus' holy city. Unless we are planning an amphibious assault, we aren't going to get it until we pretty much completely conquer Cyrus.

Oh and I would not want to trade Chemistry to Cyrus.

 

[Cosmichail]

Jun 30, 2006, 03:06 PM "got it"

Team a is at 1700ad and we are at 1600 ad. Scowler is playing a turn to take them beyond 1700. That space time continium is creeping up again. DO I have to get the "Executor" out again??? The plan begins to fade in my head for such a time stretch..........(yes i'm whining........)

 

[namliaM]

I have played my turns.... Quite un-eventfull...

I burned the GE on Chemistry and so with Chemistry in hand as a monopoly I check around...

No go on our plan... I consider stopping here, but I see no point for now... Just get some Infra in place and start some units...

And so I do some shopping with Chemistry and find I can sell it for Philo and Music to HC. Then to turn around and trade Philo to Monty for Banking (I hope). So I trade for Philo and turn around to Monty, who all of a sudden "Doesnt like me enough" 10 secs ago we was perfectly willing to trade chemistry for some tech... Now after the deal with HC Not? Hmz....

Anyway seeing as we cannot currently seem to buy anyone into a war with Cyrus and Cyrus offers us a Defensive pact.... I say Yes... We can allways cancel it and it will prevent JC from attacking for a while I think...

I found our last oponent in 1640, Mansa Munsa who is at the bottom of the pile... in score anyway ... and I found HC country....

Tho I dont know how we meet Mansa... Most probably he sailed by our land (or one of the 2 caravels)....

We got a Great Scientist, who is in Paris. He can bring 1800 beakers to Scientific Method or make an Acadamy in Paris which will bring us some 20+ beakers a turn.(90 turn return on investment I guess)

I have been que-ing units here and there... Take Corney Hills for example...

If or when we switch to Theocracy (Are we planning at all) we will have 4 units in 4 turns... Both the Pike and Mace Upgrade to Grenadiers and both recieve CR promotions.... There are some more units in que elsewhere...
We are 5 turns(@90%) from Steel, @-138gpt = 5*138 = 690... So there is just enough in the Kitty...

P.S. We need to build some Monastaries before we pick up Scientific method, if only to strengthen research... I cannot believe that e.g. Paris didnt have one yet... Thats quite a few beakers we lost along the way ...

P.P.S. Crossed DL/Playing/Reporting with Cosmichail...

P.P.P.S. Last but certainly not least....

P.P.P.P.S. There are still some deals left to be made and I made a deal to sell wheat to Cyrus for 13gpt.

 

[Cosmichail]

Roster

-- GreyFox == Massive Trade
-- namliaM == Just played==got us chemistry found mystery civ
-- armstrong == UP In the war room
-- eektor == on deck==back from a long trip
-- cosmichail == thinks we need new strategy

So JC/Monty/HC not interested. Getting DP with Cyrus is good keeps JC off our back. We have to rethink our strategy.

I think academy good in Paris maybe???

We should think about getting to astronomy....

How about getting Cyrus to war on JC. Probably not because they like each other. Maybe think about a PA with Cyrus?? With him we would have good techs/ and lots of land/votes.... HC would be (right now) against us at UN. With JC we could maybe take it diplomatically....(he will likely get to Communism first and build UN) By trading chemistry we could gain a lot from Cyrus. I don't think we can take him on our own. Not advisable.

 

[GreyFox]

There goes my war plan ...

If war is not the way, then peace is the way. Check how strong is Cyrus, if he is not too strong, we could be looking at a PA with Cyrus, then I think the best course of action is to go for diplo or Space ... its been a while since I win at Space.

We need to build some Monastaries before we pick up Scientific method, if only to strengthen research...

huh? I thought the +X% research bonus of monastry will be obsoleted with SciMeth ... so it makes no difference. Unless you are advocating we delay SciMeth for as long as possible ... but that will hurt research even more in the long run. The only reason you want to build a few monastry when you are very close to SciMeth is because of religion. Nothing else. And its useless for us.

 

[armstrong]

Hey everyone,

This is a got it, but given that the war plans haven't worked out I'll wait until we come to a consensus on where we go from here. Looking at the save and comments in the thread atm

 

[armstrong]

Some comments:

1. Both HC and Montezuma are preparing for war with someone right now. We're not last in power (that's Mansa) so I imagine that's who HC is going after. As for Monty, we don't even know where he is. We should get a quick reaction force ready to respond to a landing, though. If we declared on us, that actually might be good, though, as it would drag Cyrus into the war and slow him down.

2. Cyrus has a significant lead over HC unfortunately, so I don't know if we could get a PA. If HC eats Mansa's lands, though, he might eventually pull ahead.

3. If we don't want to go the PA route, we could go after Caesar. His military is bigger than ours, but we are human

4. JC is too scared to attack Cyrus now, so even if Steel was good enough, I don't think he would. Bah.

5. We're up to #3 in the score rankings! everyone, even if it's looking grim, we've done pretty well. With a stronger leader (we haven't used our UU or Industrious trait much at all) we'd be doing even better!

So, basically I see as our options:

1. Hope HC catches up with Cyrus, and PA with him. Take out JC, use our human tech path/production specialization & queueing advantage to win Space Race or Domination.

2. Go to war with JC - he's the only target we can hit - and see if we can just outproduce Cyrus to take him over.

 

[namliaM]

1) Reaction force is in the que's just let the que's finish and we have it in 4 turns. Suggest revolting to Theocracy tho... for the extra XP

2) In points definatly, but in Power (which is what matters right?)

3) Hmz... Atleast check for a DP between JC and Cyrus first!!!

4) I dont think JC will got to war with Cyrus for any price right now...

5) Industrious, If we were just a little better in Teching... Maybe...

So the plan is still to dominate our continent?

 

[GreyFox]

Depemds on the power standing of Cyrus ... if Cyrus is not too far ahead leading the rest, w ecould aim for a PA with Cyrus ... then pretty much we could win almost any victory condition we want ... almost.

 

[Mutineer]

Lurker comment:

Well, I look on save and Masta will trade with you.
You probably want to sell him chemistry for something. At the moment
Cyrus like Masta and if some one declare on you even better.

You sold you wheet again, but not ivory, why?
Elephant absolute, he can make knigths.

 

[eektor]

I would say since we have the DP with Cyrus, lets wait the 20 turns to see if we can get a PA. Of course using that time to continue working on our infrastructure. Afterwards if we get the PA or not, I say we go after JC.

Another idea would be to keep demanding tribute on JC and get him to declare on us and Cyrus. Of course that could backfire on us if Cyrus cancels the DP but if we were thinking of attacking JC in the first place, it wouldn't be too much trouble.

 

[GreyFox]

Well, I think its 40 turns instea dof 20 turns that we have to wait out ... in any case, let's build up our infrastructure and see where we stand in 30 turns time. By then, if the power rating gap between HC and Cyrus are not too huge, we could sell HC a few techs cheaply to push his power significantly, or even gift him some units.

We should watch the war between Monty and Mansa though ... almost certainly Monty is planning on attacking Mansa ... he is furious with MM, and MM has the least score.

--

 

[Cosmichail]

I just recently played (monarch) game with HC and Cyrus. Cyrus was no. 1and I was in the 3rd/4th position and ended up in a PA with Cyrus and won diplomatically. So I would suggest avoid trading with his enemies for now. (that PA almost felt like cheating since Cyrus's score was very high)

I don't think it matters how powerful Cyrus is he will sign with us if we pursue it. If we do get a PA with Cyrus, JC will probably join us in votes and HC will be the competition. We could win diplomatically. (I think it's like 30 on epic or 40 on marathon.)

 

[armstrong]

Hmm, that does sound like Monty is going after Mansa, too. So I think I might see the end of the Malinese civilization in my turns...

So, we're all in agreement then about going for the PA? Personally, I don't like doing winning that way, but I like winning in general more

 

[Cosmichail]

I don't think it's too far away for Cyrus to get to Communism. Once he gets that we should check every turn to see when PA is available and keep our relationship friendly with him. If we accomplish PA with him we won't have to worry about being technically backwards and try get to Mass media fairly soon to build UN.

 

[eektor]

So, we're all in agreement then about going for the PA? Personally, I don't like doing winning that way, but I like winning in general more

Yeah, I know what you mean. I propose if we get the PA, we declare on JC and try to get more cities than Cyrus so it doesn't look like we had to rely on Cyrus to win.

Are we playing epic or normal speed? I thought it was 20 turns in normal speed to get a PA from a DP. Of course I never really use the PA so I could be completely wrong.

 

[Cosmichail]

Eektor

Attacking JC would only accomplish him not voting for us. (then we would have to take all his cities and quiet him forever) How about making the long journey across the seas and go after Monty or HC. I think we should leave our continent alone now unless JC will go against Cyrus which won't likely happen. In a PA Cyrus would be at war too and we can't protect him and might loose some of Cyrus's cities (temporarily). At this point I feel our strategy should be to get a PA with Cyrus and eventually UN, we should keep JC on our good side. HC/Monty will be against us in the long run so we should consider them once we get all the technologies with PA.

Armstrong, it is a "Schmart" way to win against overwhelming odds. We are no 1 in land area and with some more conquering could even be close to a domination win whichever comes first. In a PA Cyrus's land will count too which can't be too far from 50% land mass. How about doubling the effort and try both options. As long as we are in a DP eventually PA JC will leave us alone so we can easily start moving our troops abroad. I haven't seen where Monty is yet???

Personally I love naval campaigns and getting lots of galleons/frigates.

 

[GreyFox]

While its good to plan ahead, you shouldn't be too engross in counting your chickens before they hatch, certainly not before the eggs are even laid. Cyrus is still #1 in Power. All artciles and players experience I read from the forum states clearly that AI will not go into permanent alliance with you if (A) they are top in power, or (B) you are top in power.

EDIT: Cosmic, in your other monarch game, did you check the power standing of Cyrus at the time the PA was reached? Score doesn't matter, it is Power that does, according to the CFC forumns.

Well, my take on PA is if you don't like winning by PA, then switch if off. There is a reason why PA wasn't enabled by default. If PA is available, then it is an equally viable approach at winning the game. So I am not too concern abt using PA to win.

But then again, let's concentrate in infrastructure building and see if Cyrus is willing for a PA ... start gifting tech to HC if cyrus doesn't .... I think the red reason text will change once we fulfilled the time requirement of PA. That will tell us that Cyrus is still #1 in power and is unwilling to sign when that happens.

As to what to do once (if) we get PA, let's concentrate on getting it first.

 

[eektor]

@Cosmichail The point was to take JC out not just attack and take a few cities. It would be easier to take out someone next to us then send our troops offshore to attack another civ.

I agree with GreyFox if we are concentrating on the PA let's try to get it then we can discuss after we get it. It seems like we are agreeing to go after the PA.

If power is important to PA, that's good because in most of my games Cyrus never was the power leader. I figure JC will start making a run for power leader soon.

 

[namliaM]

I think JC is to small and Inconsequential (wow powerword!) to be a factor in the power struggle...

If anyone... HC should be going for the top... We can offcourse help him a little by gifting him units when the time is there...