VQ06b - Emperor just win!

GreyFox · Jul 5, 2006

Okay Got-It, expect a report in 13 hrs. Unless armstrong decide he is no longer busy ...?

I might want to veto Corp and head towards communism ... can't wait for Cyrus to research that since it is a dead-end tech.

I recall that tech trading does not incur "trade with worst enemies" penalty ... can anyone confirm that?

Cosmichail · Jul 5, 2006

Greyfox if we can get to communism now then we should and speed up the PA. We are friendly with Cyrus again so trading with Monty/HC could jeopardize that. Going to representation is good to gain favor with Cyrus. In order to get something from Monty you might have to sell something to him to get him cautious again. There are techs we have that he would trade for (at least during my turn he did) but I'd rather see us get the PA. Of course if we do manage that we still have to get to UN or go for domination win. Monty is close by (just east of JC's island) so attacking wouldn't be that hard.

GreyFox · Jul 6, 2006

My question was only if anyone can confirm if tech-trading will affect relationship. i rea dsomewhere that it won't ... tech-trading is an Immediate Trade, and IIRC, Immediate Trade will not affect diplomacy .. unlike resource trading which is a continuous trade.

The reason I asked is because I intent to sell HC some Techs or gift him some units to pump his power up.

armstrong · Jul 6, 2006

It looks like we're progressing well towards a defensive pact with Cyrus. I haven't looked at the most recent save, but in the save 10 turns before HC was almost equal to Cyrus in power - it should (hopefully) be possible to sway that some if need be.

As for a back up plan, how far advanced is JC getting? If a Permenant Alliance is no go, I think we'd be forced to hit him with Cannons & Grenadiers (and hope he doesn't have Infantry) - we'd then need to keep rolling on to Cyrus

eek

and HC (double :eek:

.)

GreyFox said:
My question was only if anyone can confirm if tech-trading will affect relationship. i rea dsomewhere that it won't ... tech-trading is an Immediate Trade, and IIRC, Immediate Trade will not affect diplomacy .. unlike resource trading which is a continuous trade.

I'm almost positive that this isn't the case, but I haven't figured out how it works. I'm remember I've gotten "You've traded with our worst enemies" between Optics & Astronomy (and I generally don't sign open borders across the ocean until Astronomy comes in) due to tech trades. Of course, memory isn't perfect

Go ahead Greyfox, I'm still a bit busy (though things are slowing down again tomorrow, but... I'm also going to be away from any Civ-capable machines this weekend (Friday, Saturday, maybe Sunday) while I helping out with a move. So, if you can play in the next few hours, I could grab it tomorrow. Otherwise I'll need to be skipped until Sunday or Monday.

I'd probably choose Communism over Corporation as well. How many turns left before the PA is "possible"? 2 turnsets?

Cosmichail · Jul 6, 2006

I was just thinking about gifting soldiers to HC for power. HC is warring with MM right now and his power should increase??? Also do we have astronomy yet? We need galleons to get those soldiers over to HC in his territory. I don't think we have OB with him either because of Cyrus. So that should be interesting.....

GreyFox · Jul 6, 2006

The 1740AD Sun dawns over the thriving French empire .... wait, how did I ascend the throne at such a wierd year???? :crazyeye:

First job was to vetoed our research of Corporation to SciMethod ... we need it for communism, and we don't need no fricking monastries.

Turns out to be a waste of effort, as the next turn, here we go:

Heh. Cyrus got communism

Well, I consider switching back to Corporation and think ... WTH, we have already invested one turn of research into SciMeth .. let's finish it.

Then, I considered revolting to representation ... Hmm ... let's see:

HR will give us +1 happy face per military, and representation gives us +2 happy face for the 5 largest cities ... let's check out the cities ...

Besbalik:

Yikess ... it has 18 happy, 14 unhappy, and 5 of the happy are from military. Not goo enough.

Karakorum:

Even worse, 24 happy 12 of which from military! :eek:

We would be in serious happiness trouble had I revolted. Decided not to revolt, but let's build up some theatres and temples so that we would be ready to revolt when (if) Cyrus asked us to.

While looking at the cities, noticed NingShia had an enginner ... why? It is being culturally depleted and still support an engineer for what? A simple artist would have given it +6cpt to combat JC's culture ...

And indeed, towards the end of my turns, we took back the sugar SE of Ningshia.

Speaking of artists, of all things, we got a great artist :gripe:

I have sleeping in Beshbalik, but the next player can consdier culturally bombing NingShia, let him join NingShia, join Bashbalik, or wait for another GP to trigger golden age.

Afterwhich, all that remains were simply building this and that while checking Cyrus every turn. MM did came and ask for help ...

Sorry buddy.

The, its HC's turn

Nah ... ... and geez, what thick-skin! Peace-loving people of Inca???? Tell that to Mansa!!!

To Be Continued

GreyFox · Jul 6, 2006

With SciMeth done, I decided to go for replaceable parts ... we could use some lumbermills. And good news is, we have oils. 3 of them. Bad news is, we don't have combustion.

Towards the end of my turnset, HC came up with an interesting proposal:

Hmm ... tempting. After much consideration, I accepted. We incur an additional -1 for trading with worst enemy with Cyrus, but I think its worth it. Firstly, the steel will increase HC's power. Secondly, we could use the gold (aOh, we have enough gold to run 100% science for a while, consdering doing that to hasten our research of Communism for state property). Thirdly, our relationship with cyrus has grown within my turnset, from +1 fair trade to +3 fair trade. So, more than offset the negative with Cyrus.

There is however a danger of Cyrus revolting to free religion (I don't think he will do it soon, as he is still using the OR civic, and he had liberalism for a long time now, and had yet to switch, plus he only had 1 religion IIRC). S

If we miss the PA due to cyrus dropping to pleased with a near miss of +1 ito friendly, I take full blame for it.

In any case, at the end of my turnset, Cyrus is still friendly, though he still say that we do not have DP long enough.

Notced that communism is redded out? He is most probably building the Kremelim.

Here is the power status:

HC is catching up with cyrus, the slope towards the end is steeper for HC than Cyrus.

Monty came and asked this from us:

I looked around for an option "You must be kidding me" to no avail ... I settled with tellin him where to shove the skull on his forehead up into some other body part ...

Couple of notes before I handover the throne:

I have a grenie with movement:

Look at Karakorum:

Since we already had a GPFarm, why keep all these farms around? I think we ca convert Karakorum to a production or commerce power house. To that end, I converted a windmill to a mine, and a farm to a cottage. Workers are now in the process of converting yet another farm to cottages.

Oh, I played 12 turns to bring us back to a nice number.

Good luck.

>>> The Save (1800AD) <<<

Spoiler autolog :

eektor · Jul 6, 2006

Nice job GreyFox.

Ah we got a great artist, that's great. I say we either merge it with Ningh-sia or just culture bomb it. I was looking at the chances at my turn and it was 40% scientist, 20% artist, 20% engineer?, 20% merhant?.

I was thinking of going for Communism but I thought that Cyrus was most likely going to get it before us, so went with Corporation. I was also thinking Democracy to get Emancipation. It looks like that unhappiness is creeping into the cities.

As for the engineer in Ning-hsia, there was one in my turn and I ended up putting him to work. I think when it grew one more the engineer appeared again. Sorry I didn't catch it.

GreyFox, seems like you were right on the number of turns for PA with a DP, 40. It should be an option in turn 7 of the next turnset. So namliaM get us our PA

Cosmichail · Jul 6, 2006

Good job Greyfox.....

I think we will have to stay friendly at all costs otherwise once we have DP long enough he will say "we just don't like you enough". If we get that message then we are screwed. Or we can kiss his butt for a while and see if that works.

It is good that it says "we haven't had a DP long enough". So we should check every turn. (Eektor you say in 7 turns that would be nice then we can go back to doing some warring maybe)

If he goes to free religion goodbye PA as then he will go to "pleased". But he is holder of the shrine and I notice that AI tends to keep religious for a while when they have the shrine. Maybe when they get factories they won't need OR anymore and then go to free religion.

That makes NamliaM up and hope his luck will bring us the PA.........

-- GreyFox == just played==discovered the PA option with Cyrus, tempting fate
-- namliaM == UP==Please get us that PA with Cyrus
-- armstrong == on deck??== Might be busy again this weekend (from other SG's)
-- eektor == hoping for a PA==Kept Cyrus happy to get PA
-- cosmichail ==hoping for a PA==Kept Cyrus happy to get PA

Permanent Alliance, Permanent Alliance, Permanent Alliance, Permanent Alliance, Permanent Alliance

One last thing HC should increase in power whilst going after MM so maybe the timing is right there.

namliaM · Jul 6, 2006

Well we have a PA ladies and Gentleman....

First things first...

Mansa was destroyed, jumping HC to first place in score....
Just before I had gotten Communism and revolted ASAP

Dispite beeing the most power beeing on this planet Cyrus is now willing to go for a PA....

Just after the PA the score looks like this:

Notice our jump in score and the disappearing of Mansa

I dont know if this is ussual or not but I asked the shirt off off the back of Cyrus and got it :confused:

Arent we "one nation" now and using/sharing all the resourses and stuff?

I build a load of banks and markets and Grocers. Hired an artist here and there to fight Roman culture. I started a budist Stuppa in that Culture problem area up north for the extra culture and lined up the 100% culture bonus national wonder there as well.
We now got biology, so we have food to spare everywhere. We may want to change some of the farms to something else.
Also we can now build Rails and Oil Wells. I have a workboar about to be build in Paris for the offshore Oil.
I also setup a beeline to mass media for the UN... (can we win diplo??)

We are now only 6 years (3 turns) behind team A Judging from their last save in the upload folder some 7 hours ago...

Cosmichail · Jul 6, 2006

Woooohooooo

Way to go NamliaM I knew you could do it. Good call Eektor you had that right on. What a team between me and Eektor's ass kissing we made it. We are now no. 1 and have all those techs. Us behind NOOOOTTTT

-- GreyFox == just played==Will he go back to being old blood and guts
-- namliaM == just played==The hero of the day our precious PA
-- armstrong == UP == Might be busy again this weekend (from other SG's)
-- eektor == on deck==Kissing up paid off and got the timing right on
-- cosmichail ==in heaven now==Looking forward to some new strategies..

NamliaM I notice you played to 1820. Are you done? I guess so since you posted the save. Again good going. EDIT: I just notice it 2 years to a turn now so that equates to 10 turns. DUH....

armstrong · Jul 6, 2006

Okay, got it, I'll play tonight in about 5 hours. Note that Cyrus will literally give us anything we ask for, so we don't want to take away, say, some of his only happiness resources... or wreck his economy by asking for tons of GPT...

Taking a look at the save to see how realistic diplomatic vs. conquest is going to be.

Cosmichail · Jul 6, 2006

Just looked at the save and I see NamliaM is beelining to UN. I say we go for a diplomatic as it appears that what NamliaM thinks too. We have JC who will likely vote for us. He has a better standing with us then HC although he is pleased with HC. Maybe we should gift him something to get him to friendly. Conquest is a mighty tall order considering the tech level of everybody. Diplomatic/domination seems more likely.

I did notice too that Cyrus was/is #1 in power so that isn't written in stone. I think being friendly is more important as pleased won't get you a PA.

Mutineer · Jul 6, 2006

Lurker comment:
Cyrus was second i score. I think it is score that matter not power.

Congratulation, win is now in a bag.

Cosmichail · Jul 6, 2006

Hello lurker...

Cyrus was first unless HC passed him by when he conquered MM. If you read through our thread it was brought up that you can't get a PA with a civ that is #1 in power although I too didn't think it mattered. BTW I have gone into a PA with a civ first in score and I was like 3rd or 4th. So the exact understanding surrounding PA's is still speculative. I know being friendly is needed though.

Thanks Mutineer, due to good team effort and hard work it paid off.

eektor · Jul 6, 2006

Good job namliaM :goodjob:

and

to everyone.

Ok, now let's focus on finishing the game and winning. If JC votes for us would we have enough votes to win? If not we might have to take out Monty.

Well according to the graphs I saw, apparently HC was score leader and Cyrus was the power leader at the time the PA was signed. Maybe the PA requirements depend on the leader's personality? I don't think anybody knows for sure what will prevent the PA from happening.

:lol:

Oh great now I'm going to be known as the ass kisser. :blush:

I do have one thing to say, someone <cough> Cosmichail <cough> did as much ass kissing as I did.

GreyFox · Jul 6, 2006

Goodjob on getting the PA.

And please give back Cyrus what we've "borrowed". Cyrus will agree to anything you asked of him (yes, even his wives, sisters, daughters and mistresses) now that we are in a PA, but we don't want to cripple him, do we?

One thing is: do we know now every tech that Cyrus know?

This whole PA thing is new to me, so its a good experience.

And we are heading towards UN? I would think Domination is faster ... The rest will never vote for us, me thinks. Anyhow, a win is guaranteed, what's left is execution, so it doesn't matter.

On PA, conclusion is that nobody knew how PA actually works. The fact that lots of inner workings of various mechanisms in Civ4 is hidden from the players can be either frustrating or fun, depending on your prespective. But hell, when homo saipens first light up a fire, they don't know sh!t abt Superstring theory either. We survived through figuring out how the Universe actually work ... so I guess from that perspective, Civ4 is just trying to be as real as possible.

@Muntineer: thanks!

Cosmichail · Jul 7, 2006

Greyfox we get every tech he does. We share research now. There is a slight penalty on the beakers for research in a PA but together we can conquer the universe. D'OH I mean move it along. Darth Vader slipping through again.

You're right too we shouldn't take everything he's got. When I looked at the save he has some unhealthy cities no wonder. NamliaM just went nuts so I hope Armstrong corrects that. I notice too that we have a GM and GA so we could even go to a golden age but I think we should use that GA for culture bombing Nsing Hsia. (hope I got that right always mix that name up)

Yes the PA is full of mystery. Look what happen to Team A and it is unlikely they will get it back unless they can get KK to friendly somehow.

Eektor I didn't mind doing some ass kissing as it did pay off. Now we are the ass kissers.

(cough just another corporate stooge doing what he does best cough, cough)

We aren't that far away from UN. Although ensuring our win by going after Monty wouldn't hurt. So using that GM to upgrade some good units would help.

armstrong · Jul 7, 2006

Okay, playing...

armstrong · Jul 7, 2006

Quick turn report, as I'm pretty busy atm.

Basically, since we have the PA and have decided to go Diplo, I focused on that. I started converting Karakorum into a production city to build the UN. IW was started there, it's almost done - it's up to 53 base hammers, and still some workshops and mines it can work after it grows

- Kara should have time to build a factory+coal plant before we finish researching Mass Media.

Also, I revolted to Representation to try to get JC friendly with us so he'll vote for us. He's still pleased, and "trade relations"+"provided with resources" are maxed... even after I game him Divine Right to get to +4...

But... I think favorite civic can still go up a notch or two... we're at +10 with him now, so we're really close. Perhaps a Defensive Pact with him might push us over the top (assuming he'd agree to it...), or just wait for his fav civic too boost relations.

I researched Democracy & revolted to Emancipation also. We were getting 4 unhappiness in our cities, so it had to be done. I couldn't find a trade for it because HC hates us and JC thinks we're too advanced.

Btw, that 57 gold for nothing trade absolutely killed Cyrus's research. I've cancelled most of it, but there's still one trade left to cancel I think.

PS... I had to zip the save file - even with that, it's still 497K, so....

The (mostly quiet) log...

:

Spoiler autolog :

The log:

VQ06b - Emperor just win!

Make it so ...

Dark Lord of The Sith

Make it so ...

Prince

Dark Lord of The Sith

Make it so ...

Make it so ...

Prince

Dark Lord of The Sith

Deity

Dark Lord of The Sith

Prince

Dark Lord of The Sith

Deity

Dark Lord of The Sith

Prince

Make it so ...

Dark Lord of The Sith

Prince

Prince

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