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Wages of Sin feedback

Kael

Deity
Joined
May 6, 2002
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Let us know what you think about the Wages of Sin scenario in this thread.
 
I take it these were released in patch "r"? Looking forward to them already!
 
It doesn't seem appropriate to me that the Elohim cities all have the Order in them, making them adopt this religion. I don't really think that this Mercy oriented civ fits very well with this Law oriented religion. Also, it is one of the weaker religions for them as the special Spirit Guide promotion that Confessors start with is something all Elohim units should have after builder their Reliquary UB.


In the Calabim version I found that Basium owned the Empyrean holy city and adopted that religion. Even though he is Empyrean in The Radiant Guard, I think that Order would have made more sense for him. The Malakim should really have the Empyrean holy city here, as they do in the Malakim version of the scenario.




I just found that my Devouts' Sanctify spell only seems to work in Infernal controlled territory, not in the hell terrain surrounding said territory.
 
When I started the scenario from within the game it gave me the Malakim even though I won Into the Desert as the Calabim.

Played through as the Calabim, and it seems unfocused. No one seems to be gunning for you, the evil guys aren't fighting a losing war or anything. You don't have any major issues. I just wandered around exploring the map for a bit, then smashed the Malakim, Elohim, and Mercurians one after another.

Part of the issue might be your start. It's to much and to little. The Rangers make defending your area a non-concern, the vampires(and the great commander) give you an assault force. But your civilization setup is weak. Someone else has founded the various religions already. My nearest copper was in Malakim lands. You're into the midgame techs and have a pitiful amount of commerce coming in. Basically, until you're able to turn your nation into a vampire-factory it's useless.

If that's the idea, to use your overly powerful troops to secure a decent setup for your nation, then I'd suggest making it more intuitive(place some of the troops in sight of the Elohim, place the boat by Timberling) or make the Malakim area a bit nicer. I didn't see any mana nodes for Spring by my start position, and big swathes of desert don't exactly scream "conquer me"
 
Calabim scenario is a bit unfocused, yes.

Sheaim scenario is VERY entertaining. Mostly because Hyborem loves you.

Will you be able to play as the svartalfar in a following update? The elven war didn't affect me at all, i never even saw any ljosalfar troops.

Story was very appreciated, i haven't had the time to try the "good" side yet.
 
Once i implemented the new workshops the game somehow developed, they are really cool. I played as malakim, destroyed a few svatalfar cities with my super-experienced horseman (and a bunch of hunters) before getting slaughtered by alazkhan.
after this it was more or less waiting for chalid and champions as well as enough culture for at least one mana node to come into play (hyborem was to fearful).
was the normal chalid-destroys-all march, then.

I enjoyed the story a lot but find the szenario itself too unfocused in the malakim version.
you kind of sit on the side of the map and, apart from some few svatalfar expeditions nobody ever enters your land, expect some barbarians.
with all the messages (this hero died, this hero died) i felt that i miss all the action - and indeed, all the fun was going on in the middle of the map.

it also took a very long time to build at least a tiny bit of production into the desert cities, i would appreciate more workers or pre-built modernisations.
 
I enjoyed the story a lot but find the szenario itself too unfocused in the malakim version.
you kind of sit on the side of the map and, apart from some few svatalfar expeditions nobody ever enters your land, expect some barbarians.
with all the messages (this hero died, this hero died) i felt that i miss all the action - and indeed, all the fun was going on in the middle of the map.
That's a good point. How about we remove the "safe" Malakim city, and give them one near the mountian instead? That might help threaten the Malakim more.
Will you be able to play as the svartalfar in a following update? The elven war didn't affect me at all, i never even saw any ljosalfar troops.
I had considered it. It wasn't in the original design, I think because Kael intended more effect from Umbra wood than I really wanted (the winner of that one should have extra units and a different evil leader opposing.)
They either need some events tieing them in more, or I should let them be playable.


How about more Mercurian and Infernal units near their enemies? Or even cities, I guess. If they aren't playable, they don't need to be as balanced, really.
 
Played through again as the Elohim this time. The scenario almost seems designed for them.:D You have a good start, but Calabim to your east and the Infernals above apply some pressure, give you some clear objectives.

Sanctuary should probably be either toned down or disabled for the scenario. My 2 games so far have run about 120 turns apiece. Sanctuary is 30 turns. So you can beat up the mortal enemies, pop it when the infernal SoD's start showing up, and be bringing the game to a close by the time they are allowed into your territory again.

A couple events may need to be blocked early or entirely. The Orb event for example probably shouldn't be allowed in the first 50 turns or so. Starting with pretty advanced techs and a fairly undeveloped area leads to fun stuff like it giving you Righteousness at turn 7 even though you're only putting out 20:science: a turn. And the Svartalfar become much less of a threat when Gurid shows up and takes Thariss:lol:

If Valin or Rosier gets the Black Mirror their introductory thing is displayed every time they use it.
Every. Single. Time.
 
why can't you play as basuim or hyborem? And does the PA go away after a pair signs one? I hadn't the option when Svalts and Infernals signed one.
 
Chalid Baby, 1 Hero With blitz and game over. thats it.
Until i got chalid i just holed up in my hole and end-turned until i had the research done, then popped chalid, wait another 50+ turns (until he gets Dril 4 + blitz) then go on a rampage spree. I had him with 300 exp and ALL the useful (even minor useful) promotions at the end. To easy...
 
why can't you play as basuim or hyborem? And does the PA go away after a pair signs one? I hadn't the option when Svalts and Infernals signed one.

Had you researched Feudalism yet? That's a prerequisite for Permanent Alliances. It's very easy to get a permanent alliance with the Ljosalfar as the Malakim in this scenario.
 
FYI, know the typos average about 1 or 2 per entry, hopefully most or all will be fixed with the next patch.
Played through again as the Elohim this time. The scenario almost seems designed for them.:D You have a good start, but Calabim to your east and the Infernals above apply some pressure, give you some clear objectives.

Sanctuary should probably be either toned down or disabled for the scenario. My 2 games so far have run about 120 turns apiece. Sanctuary is 30 turns. So you can beat up the mortal enemies, pop it when the infernal SoD's start showing up, and be bringing the game to a close by the time they are allowed into your territory again.

A couple events may need to be blocked early or entirely. The Orb event for example probably shouldn't be allowed in the first 50 turns or so. Starting with pretty advanced techs and a fairly undeveloped area leads to fun stuff like it giving you Righteousness at turn 7 even though you're only putting out 20:science: a turn. And the Svartalfar become much less of a threat when Gurid shows up and takes Thariss:lol:

If Valin or Rosier gets the Black Mirror their introductory thing is displayed every time they use it.
Every. Single. Time.
I hate sanctuary. :p Maybe theres a way that they could begin with it up, to have the flavor without the cheese.
There's a lot of events in now, it'll be a challenge to go through and weed out ones that are overpowered starting at a late age. (Is the orb event the constellation one that adds beakers?)
The hero-mirror thing would be annoying, I'll cross post it in the other forum.
Re: Chalid--I think that's a game balance thing in general, but it would probably do to have some stronger starting units, perhaps some with magic resistance.
 
The event is the one where a merchant offers to sell you an old Patrian artifact. Unlike the constellation event or a GP bulb it doesn't give beakers, it's always a tech. Which is a problem when you're pulling in 20:science: and can pick something that costs 12,000.
 
I had a wandering monk pick off Alakazan up in Svalt territory. When I brought it back I gave it to Valin of course. Even turn when I made his illusion I got the initial popup dialog.

Maybe make the popup only work when he is initially created, not if he is cloned?
 
Once again, great scenario!
My only issue is what people have already brought up, that the early game is too unfocused. I think this could be remedied though by improving everyone's land and giving Decius more supplies or something.

Also, I'm really loving the little text that pops up when the heroes appear. The Valin one when I was Calabim really made me go "uh oh... this isn't good". Now I can't wait for the next installment for more of the story!
 
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