Wages of Sin feedback

[R0GERSHRUBBER]

I explored some ruins near the Calabim's southern coast on the second turn, which spawned a Sea Serpent and six Azers, which sacked my capital. I needed to go to class anyway.

However, I looked at the map in WB beforehand, and I had the same impression that came with the early versions of Momus: the map is entirely too big.

 

[Bitwise]

It took me 100 turns to realize I hadn't converted to Empyrean as the Malakim. I kept wondering if there was an event that triggered to bring Chalid into play, until I looked at my religion screen.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Okay, I'll see about editing it again tonight to reduce some space (with mountians or lakes) and giving the players some starting buildings and perhaps some cottages.

 

[Gigaz]

I found that my mercyful Elohim vampires can't feed from citizens. Is that a feature in the scenario, is it always like that or did I just lack some requirements?

 

[Thunder_Gr]

Feast is a Calabim only ability for Vampires since .40. Vampires belonging to other civs do not have access to Feast.

 

[MondSemmel]

Repost from my post in the general bug thread:

Several bugs with Wages of Sin:
First of all, several players in that scenario (and possibly in other scenarios) use their world spells in the first turn - for example, the Elohim and the Ljosalfar do (Actually, I think the Elohim did something similar in Barbarian Assault). I would guess that the AI uses its world spells partly depending on whether it's on war with other civilizations - and this scenario and others have the "Always War" option enabled. In that case, the conditions for using these world spells really have to change.

Secondly, The Sheaim player starts with a Great Engineer right next to the Infernals. I assume that the Great Engineer was actually supposed to belong to the Infernals instead of the Sheaim and that it's ejected from Hyborem's territory in turn 0 because the two civilizations do not start with open borders.
Solution: Change the owner of the Great Engineer from Sheaim to the Infernals.

Thirdly, I've tried the scenario several times already and always quit in frustration after I was visited in turn 10 or so by a basically unkillable unit: Basium. (And if I actually managed to kill him, I wouldn't be happy, either, because this seriously hurts the Mercurians...). Hyborem starts with UnitAI_Defense or something like that while Basium had UnitAI_Attack - perhaps that's the problem? In any case, Basium mustn't be allowed to attack that soon personally - either he kills (or at least harasses) the player at a very early point in the game, or he dies that soon. Neither option is particularly satisfying.

Hopefully, this bug report was helpful in some way.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Sure, thanks for the info about the GE.
Maybe I'll cut Basium and have him be buildable like in Lord of the Balors. I'd hate to set him to defense, since then he'd sit there the whole game, I suspect.

 

[ChinaBlue]

in this scenario the glance screen is bit messed up

Spoiler :

and reloading the autosave from the current turn starts doing the previous AI turn all over again, instead of starting at the beginning of the new day.
not tested if that's just with this scenario

 

[Sid_Unbreakable]

I just thought I would ask a simple question, is Basium supposed to count as one of the 'good opposing' teams to be destroyed in this scenario. If this is the case he keeps restarting after I take his last city. I was wondering what the logic was of not making him count as one of the opposing teams to beat the scenario, and if there is a good reason is it announced in the beginning and maybe I just missed it?

 

[Homunculus]

It took me 100 turns to realize I hadn't converted to Empyrean as the Malakim. I kept wondering if there was an event that triggered to bring Chalid into play, until I looked at my religion screen.

You're not alone

 

[Nikis-Knight]

I just thought I would ask a simple question, is Basium supposed to count as one of the 'good opposing' teams to be destroyed in this scenario. If this is the case he keeps restarting after I take his last city. I was wondering what the logic was of not making him count as one of the opposing teams to beat the scenario, and if there is a good reason is it announced in the beginning and maybe I just missed it?

I'm not quite sure what you mean... Taking him out should count as defeating one rival, yes. Require complete kills isn't set. But maybe it isn't because he's on the same team as the Elohim?

You're not alone

Sorry... I should either preset your religion or give you units rather than the religion in the city so that it reminds you. Will be fixed in a future patch.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

What is it that makes it so easy to forget to convert to the Empyrean as the Malakim? I forgot to do so in this scenario the first time I played the Malakim version of it too.


I think I like having the religion preset better, but make sure that the city already has a holy city to or I don't think the religion will ever really be founded.

I just edited Lord of the Balors to have each civ start out with the proper state religion, and to give the Holy Cities and free religious units as soon as the first cities are founded instead of waiting a few turns until the game decides to found the religions based on the techs they own. I think I like this way much better, especially since I'm planning to add more civs with more religions that will be activated/deactivated based on trophies in other scenarios, and I don't want their religion's free units given out if the religion is founded the old fashioned way.

 

[Sid_Unbreakable]

I'm not quite sure what you mean... Taking him out should count as defeating one rival, yes. Require complete kills isn't set. But maybe it isn't because he's on the same team as the Elohim?
Sorry... I should either preset your religion or give you units rather than the religion in the city so that it reminds you. Will be fixed in a future patch.

Nevermind it is because I was very tired (too much FFH in one day) and I thought he was gaining Elven cities when it was just the fact that Omniscience didn't reveal all of his cities to me like I thought it did, apparently that must only reveal all of the terrain?

I'm sorry if my last post was incoherent it was late at night and thanks for trying to help out a confused soul.

 

[LDiCesare]

Repost from my post in the general bug thread:

Several bugs with Wages of Sin:
First of all, several players in that scenario (and possibly in other scenarios) use their world spells in the first turn - for example, the Elohim and the Ljosalfar do (Actually, I think the Elohim did something similar in Barbarian Assault). I would guess that the AI uses its world spells partly depending on whether it's on war with other civilizations - and this scenario and others have the "Always War" option enabled. In that case, the conditions for using these world spells really have to change.

(...)

Thirdly, I've tried the scenario several times already and always quit in frustration after I was visited in turn 10 or so by a basically unkillable unit: Basium. (And if I actually managed to kill him, I wouldn't be happy, either, because this seriously hurts the Mercurians...). Hyborem starts with UnitAI_Defense or something like that while Basium had UnitAI_Attack - perhaps that's the problem? In any case, Basium mustn't be allowed to attack that soon personally - either he kills (or at least harasses) the player at a very early point in the game, or he dies that soon. Neither option is particularly satisfying.

Hopefully, this bug report was helpful in some way.

I feel exactly the same. Ljosalfar wasting their forests on treants when I have a miserable unit near their border is bad.
Basium makes playing as the Sheaim totally uninteresting imo.

 

[Sid_Unbreakable]

I feel exactly the same. Ljosalfar wasting their forests on treants when I have a miserable unit near their border is bad.
Basium makes playing as the Sheaim totally uninteresting imo.

In my game the Sheaim were wiped out entirely too fast by Basium, which was kind of cool it. It seemed to add a sense of desparation to the game that wouldn't have been there otherwise. However I could see how playing with the Sheaim instead of the Calabim could be really annoying having to deal with the Mercureans.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Okay, I'm thinking Basium and Hyborem will start held in their cities until a tech is researched, such as fanatacism. Or maybe just after X turns.

 

[LDiCesare]

In my experience, the Infernals will start building Hyborem immediately if he's not available at the start of the scenario. Don't know for Basium.

 

[MondSemmel]

Okay, I'm thinking Basium and Hyborem will start held in their cities until a tech is researched, such as fanatacism. Or maybe just after X turns.

Good idea. I'd prefer a number of turns modified by game speed - after all, if their ability to move depends on a tech that's that late into the game, they might never do anything.
An alternative might be a certain value on the AC (but it might be deactivated in this scenario, again?).

Actually, if you make it depend on a number of turns or the AC, you could make it part of the storyline of the scenario - some reason like "Basium and Hyborem need some time to cross over from their own worlds to Erebus", or that they are still channeling some kind of spell or something like that.

 

[Love]

I killed basium pretty easy with sheaim. I threw a couple of pyre zombies on him and ringed fired him and last i killed him with rosier. He nailed up on a hill next to my cap.

 

[LDiCesare]

I killed basium pretty easy with sheaim. I threw a couple of pyre zombies on him and ringed fired him and last i killed him with rosier. He nailed up on a hill next to my cap.

A couple fire zombies? I got him come around as soon as he could, and it was impossible for me to build any unit before he would destroy my capital, even making a stance on the hills. Only way to deter him would have been skeleton spamming so he'd kill the skels every turn, but that's downright boring and unfun.