Want to get Windows 10?

[Quintillus]

I could see it increasing for a couple reasons. One being that the July release date was widely thought to be optimistic and even unlikely when announced, due to many seeing it as not being far enough to finish polishing. The date was made, but the polish may need a bit more time, and once it's there, I could see it having fewer kinks.

Another being that it's typical for it to take awhile for new releases of Windows to really hit their stride - the old "wait for the first service patch" adge. And while it's true that continuing to add new features in Windows 10 will introduce more bugs, unlike in Seven and earlier where features were rarely added, Windows 10 is still a big-bang release like traditional Windows. So even if you don't count the July release as surprisingly early, the traditional day-one jitters can still be expected, and I'd expect it to stabilize at a more SP1-level of issues once Microsoft has been working on Ten for a couple quarters.

 

[Zelig]

Win10 had a surprisingly short release schedule when announced, but then it contained very little new stuff, it's about comparable to Win8 -> Win8.1 in terms of features.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Win 10 is definitely a hell of a lot nicer than Win 7. I'm probably going to give up on playing Simcity4 and reinstall.

 

[illram]

I tried 10 on my living room PC and it's pretty great. Probably going to upgrade the office and laptop once I have some free time.

 

[thesplashbros]

I'm pretty amped for 10, seems like it's gonna be the best Speaking of which, my office has been talking about installing microsoft exchange, although I'm not sure I understand its benefits really. Has anyone had much contact with this for example?

 

[Formaldehyde]

I discovered why Simcity 4, apparently some variants of Civ 4, and a bunch of other games don't work under Windows 10.

Microsoft intentionally broke them by refusing to allow Macrovision's SafeDisc copy protection system driver to load anymore. This was supposedly done due to vulnerabilities, but they were supposedly fixed years ago.

The reason I found out about it is that in the latest Windows 7 update they turned the service off and broke Simcity 4. I found out how to fix that problem which led to the article detailing how you could get SECDRV.SYS to work under Windows 10:

SECDRV.SYS Not Loading in Windows 10; this will break thousands of older games.

The details are as follows:

A workaround is to copy secdrv.sys from a windows 8 / 8.1 machine, self sign the driver, and enter into testsigning boot mode.

You can do this manually or use 3rd party programs to do it.

First copy secdrv.sys from a windows 8 machine to c:\windows\system32\drivers. You can also download it here. Same file as the one I got from a vanilla windows 8.1 install v 4.3.86.0 md5 3ea8a16169c26afbeb544e0e48421186

Then self sign the driver. You can use a program Driver Signature Enforcement Overrider to do this: http://www.ngohq.com/?page=dseo

Or read about doing it yourself here. You will also need to make the certificate.

Then enable TESTSIGNING boot mode by opening an admin command prompt and typing: bcdedit -set testsigning on

Now safedisc games should work.

You will get an annoying watermark in testsigning mode. You can remove it using this program. Or read about removing it manually here.

(Note: That link about removing it manually is invalid...)

I tested secdrv.sys and the above programs in Windows 10 Pro x64 and confirms that it does work.

Can someone post this information to the appropriate forums regarding versions of Civ 4 that currently don't work under Windows 10? I imagine it will be very good news to a lot of Civfanatics.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I upgraded my laptop to Windows 10 on Tuesday night, and am liking it so far.

I was annoyed by the bars at the top of programs being white, as it was distracting when using a dark theme for everything, but I found a way to change it.

The software that lets me program the extra buttons of my Logitech Performance MX mouse was not compatible with Windows 10. There was an update available to fix that, but I had to install it manually as the program could no longer recognize my internet connection to update itself automatically.

I'm a little annoyed by the loss of old versions of games like solitaire and minesweeper, mostly because I can't find the location of the exe for the replacement apps in order to program those custom mouse buttons for things like hints, undo, and new game like I was used to using.


The computer does seem faster now. I'm not sure I've noticed the quicker booting others have mentioned, but but it takes much less time to close windows or switch between open windows.

I like the new mail and calendar apps much better than outlook, which had gotten so slow that I gave up on using it years ago.

Having the weather app show a five day forecast in my start menu is quite nice.

 

[Zelig]

This was supposedly done due to vulnerabilities, but they were supposedly fixed years ago.

I don't really get where this is going. The DRM was exploiting a "feature" in Windows that could be exploited by malware, and had no legitimate uses.

 

[leif erikson]

Can someone post this information to the appropriate forums regarding versions of Civ 4 that currently don't work under Windows 10? I imagine it will be very good news to a lot of Civfanatics.

All ready did so in this thread as well as the Game of the Month threads in all civ versions.

 

[onejayhawk]

I finally got Win10 loaded on the old desktop. It was using 32 bit before, so a lot of newer stuff runs better.

I do miss the chess program on Win7.

J

 

[Formaldehyde]

I don't really get where this is going. The DRM was exploiting a "feature" in Windows that could be exploited by malware, and had no legitimate uses.

Yet the copy protection service still apparently works just fine in Windows 10. And once properly installed according to the instructions I provided above, it will allow all those games which require it to apparently function.

All ready did so in this thread as well as the Game of the Month threads in all civ versions.

I don't think you understand. I provided a solution to this problem.

 

[Zelig]

Yet the copy protection service still apparently works just fine in Windows 10. And once properly installed according to the instructions I provided above, it will allow all those games which require it to apparently function.

Well yeah, but then you're opening yourself up to potential vulnerabilities.

I don't think you understand. I provided a solution workaround to this problem.

ftfy

Solution is not not use broken DRM.

 

[leif erikson]

Yet the copy protection service still apparently works just fine in Windows 10. And once properly installed according to the instructions I provided above, it will allow all those games which require it to apparently function.

I don't think you understand. I provided a solution to this problem.

Have pointed your post to the Hall of Fame and Game of the Month staffs for evaluation. Thanks.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I got Windows 10 and it has made all of my MS Office apps really unstable and my digitizer stylus essentially doesn't work anymore. Since I use my tablet to take notes in class, this is extremely problematic.

Just as an FYI - you may want to hold off for a few months until they make Win 10 more stable.

Someone pointed out to me that some of the problem may be due to Sony not updating the drivers for the stylus itself, so Win 10 may have nothing to do with that.

I'm still having intermittent problems with various Office products, however - even when using only keyboard and mouse.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Well yeah, but then you're opening yourself up to potential vulnerabilities.

"Potential vulnerabilities" which were apparently fixed 7 years ago?

Solution is not not use broken DRM.

"Solution" is to continue to play these games millions of people paid for and enjoy under Windows 10.

 

[Zelig]

"Potential vulnerabilities" which were apparently fixed 7 years ago?

Source?

Even if that were the case, it's still an additional attack vector, like Flash or Java that receive monthly security patches.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Have pointed your post to the Hall of Fame and Game of the Month staffs for evaluation. Thanks.

I just reinstalled Windows 10, went through the steps above, and SimCity 4 now works great!

Source?

It was fixed in the OS with the release of Windows Vista:

Follow-up on Macrovision Secdrv Exploit

So it wasn't actually a vulnerability in SECDRV.SYS as much as it seems to have been Microsoft being the usual incompetent boobs they frequently are by not sufficiently testing their own software with approved software from vendors for vulnerabilities.

Even if that were the case, it's still an additional attack vector, like Flash or Java that receive monthly security patches.

That is true with any software that is installed in the Windows directory and becomes a service. But until a vulnerability is actually reported and Macrovision doesn't respond to fix it, I really don't see it as being much of an issue. Nothing has been reported for over 7 years now.

Here is what Microsoft says about it in relation to Windows 10:

Shortly after the release of Windows 10, Microsoft announced that games with SafeDisc DRM will not run on its new operating system. Citing security concerns over the software due to the way in which it becomes "deeply embedded" in the system, Microsoft said "That’s where Windows 10 says, 'Sorry'." Supporting SafeDisc could have been a possible loophole for computer viruses to exploit. [3][4]

But if you read the articles in the footnotes, there is no mention of "exploits". It is all about how "heavy handed" SafeDisc supposedly is. They are apparently just using this old vulnerability which was apparently their own fault for fear mongering because they don't want to have to thoroughly test their own new software with existing drivers they don't like.

What is really hypocritical is that SimCity 4 is on the approved software list that Microsoft supposedly verified still works properly under Windows 10 during beta testing. So this decision seems to have been made after they originally decided it was just fine just before the release.

 

[Zelig]

Vulnerabilities exist regardless of them being reported or not. MS doesn't allow easter eggs in their own products due to potential vulnerabilities or other bugs, it's perfectly consistent for them to not allow third-party low-level drivers with zero actual value.

 

[Formaldehyde]

It certainly had "value" to numerous software vendors at the time. And MS even agreed with supporting it until extremely recently.

But suddenly it no longer has "value", even though it means that millions of people can no longer play their favorite games that aren't all that old.

What a strange notion of "zero actual value".

It is far more likely that MS simply had a recent falling out with Macrovision (which is now Rovi) for whatever reason.

Or perhaps they simply decided that they just don't really care that they are pissing off millions of their customers by suddenly withdrawing a commitment they just made to continue to support these games under Windows 10, just to save a few bucks in compatibility testing.

Or perhaps some middle manager just made a really stupid decision.

 

[Zelig]

DRM is not real value.

The games work just fine, it's the DRM that doesn't.