War and conquest

[stormarack]

I just read the topic with guermantes which interested me because it talked about Isabella and Conquistadors . I am playing Isabella right now on a Small Lakes map, nothing too serious, trying to just relax. However, I decided in the start of the game, like when I got my first tech (Agriculture I think it was), to try and rush BW, IW and Elepults to try and reach a conquest victory asap. However it's now 1300AD (pretty much) and I'm only just about to clean up Cyrus. Of course, I can sweep house from that point on but I fear I will only achieve victory by 1500-1600AD... Which is just slow, in my opinion.

I didn't get any Bronze close to me nor Iron which made me invade Cyrus' first city with chariots and catapults. Which was very sad. VERY. This is Noble difficulty as well, so it's really just an attempt to see what i'm doing wrong, how I can optimize my conquest victories (I like going for conquest rather than Domination, I know I can get that much faster but the thrill of annihilating enemies is just... :> satisfying). So I guess with Domination option on it would probably go a lot faster already.

But back to the game, is the BW,IW,Construction a good rush (with Oracle>Alphabet) to trade for worker techs and so on? Or is there a route that could be better? Like maybe Oracle>IW?

In my previous thread I spoke with Seraiel who explained to me the basics of a commerce city, which I tried doing with my Capital in this game, I hope I did that correctly for a first try as well. I hope the save of the game is now right format so you can have a good judgment of the game . Any questions related to the game, info I left out, I'd be very happy to complete them .

Last note : Don't pay attention to the name of the file, I save my games on older files so they stack up and take up too much space (yes, my computer is that that I have to put up with this process).

 

[sinimusta]

You could oracle construction (maybe with GS bulping math), you should really avoid using it on a cheap tech like alpha or IW, especially on noble difficulty. IW can be traded anyway from the AI and if you have elephants, completely skipped.

 

[stormarack]

Cheap tech like Alphabet? It's not exactly cheap for me. It's cheaper than CoL, that's true but I need in order to trade techs . Or is that not something really important?

 

[Cam_H]

stormarack,

Here's some quick pointers on areas of possible 'areas that might benefit from review' in your save without wishing to address 'everything' that's there;

• I think that you're playing too quickly. 1 hour 36 minutes for a Marathon speed game where you're nearly into the 14th Century just seems hurried. I'm not really sure why you're not playing on normal speeds - but "if you ain't playing for cash then you're playing for fun" I guess - so your call on that one.
  
  
• 8 Workers, 10 Cities. Lots of jungle. Albeit I note that Arabella's on a Worker build, but it's still too few.
  
  
• Civics: Representation but only one specialist in your entire empire. If you swapped to Hereditary Rule you'd deal with your unhappiness and potentially get a diplomatic bonus with Kublai Khan for sharing a favourite civic when he eventually gets Monarchy. Likewise, if you're not leveraging the Caste System that much, then Slavery 'stands tall' as a better civic choice. Conversely, you can really 'ramp up' your focus and leverage Representation more effectively - for instance Seville could run six Scientists before running out of food before the pop. As noted below, you can run Artists for border pops ...
  
  
• If you choose to stick with your current civics, you should address happiness resources. One option; there's trades with Tokugawa ... you can swap Crab for Fur, or Stone/Crab for Fur/Sugar. Another option; you've got an undeveloped Dye in your borders and potentially Gems if you stuck with Caste and ran an Artist (courtesy of the Caste System) in Taurus for 8 turns. On that matter of Artists, Sidon also would benefit from a border pop by running an Artist (again, Caste) for 8 turns to access the Crabs and Iron.
  
  
• Spend your cash. 700 in the treasury and running at 40% at -26? Surge towards your next tech' or hold back for possible trades. In this case, I'd just continue to self-tech' Feudalism out as Tokugawa's very unlikely to trade it to you given where you're both at.

Anyway, hopefully there are a few pointers that might be of help.

On 'the plus side', it's a reasonable attacking stack you have there, and you're well on your way to Domination - best of luck with the current war.

 

[stormarack]

Thank you for all those points .

Well, I still have a lot to learn, that is true. I am playing Marathon games rather than Quick Games because I feel like I can concentrate much more easily on the Warmongering path that way.

I do need to work on that too but I don't exactly see the need to work tiles that my cities aren't using yet if they are in jungle or not. I understand the necessity of chopping, however. As I played the game a bit further I noticed that I completely neglected my city of Barcelona in terms of working its tiles, which was indeed a huge mistake.

Quite frankly, I don't understand Civics and GPP farming yet. That is why I often revert to games with the only option of Conquest victory because I am not experienced enough to use my cities correctly. The points you have shown do definitely help me a lot and I appreciate it a lot, seeing as that was not even my question. You are willing to point out my flaws in the general gameplay (not even mentioning everything, which means I am probably playing in a manner that would annoy you, as a much more experienced player I know I would be annoyed).

But thank you very much . Trade is something I also don't quite understand. I am very reluctant to trade away ressources (certainly Stone) because I don't want to give the AI an advantage. And I don't know how a ressource trade can be in my favor or against me.

I dislike running Hereditary Rule because I saw on this forum that it is the highest upkeep civic to hold which makes me think : "Ow god, I will have to put my research slider down." I know that this will probably spark controversy but this is the way I am thinking right now. I prefer to be honest than sugarcoat my wrong doings.

Since I read a guide on the SSE strategy, I always try and pop out a GS in games where I am not going for a Cultural Victory. I get the GP as first Great Person but that's about it, the rest is always GS. I do understand actually how the GP-pool works and how it is important to diversify depending on planning but I don't plan enough. Which is why I now understand why you are so intrigued by the very short time I spent on playing the game.

I understand that that would put the GP rate higher but is it not important to build a few more buildings in Seville? Because I would be sacrificing food and hammers for that and also the Gold ressource. Or should I keep that Gold ressource?

Again, I apologise for my ignorance or just plainly my lack of knowledge of the game but I play 99% of my games with Domination or Conquest victories... So popping a GA doesn't really sound appealing to me. I do see how it can be useful to snag a ressource from the AI by popping one in more peaceful games.

I do see now how running Specialists can be crucial in even smaller cities. I never realized that before and actually never even paid attention to it. I only paid attention to the cities that would actually produce GPs. I had that money to finance further research at loss but I don't usually rush for one technology, which maybe is a bad thing, I don't know. The way I think is if I grind the slider just a little bit higher, I will be able to hold it there. I do have the undying habit of becoming an incredible floater once the game hits Industrial Era, verging from 1000-10.000 in the treasury with the idea of : "I will be able to rush a Wonder with Universal Suffrage".

I wasn't really keen on making friends, and frankly, I usually never am because I feel like I always have to give away things for that (I consider ressource trading as giving something away). I don't grasp how getting, for example, Crab through trade would help me. Would it give Health and Food to all my cities or just one?

Thank you for pointing out my flaws and I hope I do not aggravate you too much with my careless/ignorant way of playing

 

[Cam_H]

Thanks for your considered reply. I didn't want to cover 'everything' as I appreciate that you feel as though you're still 'finding your way' with Civ4, and more than a handful of points might be more confusing than helpful. Certainly no need for you to apologise for your level of play - I'm happy to try to offer advice that might be of some use.

Just quickly:

Trading with the AI is a useful part of the game. The trick is to make the most of your trading opportunities (e.g. getting 'multiple-for-one' type deals ... selling 'say' Metal Casting for Currency with one AI, Construction + Archery with another, and Horseback Riding + Monotheism + from a third).

Trading for the resources you need is also of value. In your game you need happiness resources (Tokugawa has Fur and Sugar). You need these far more than health resources (i.e. your Crab) and there are no desirable Stone-based Wonders on the horizon, so you can trade your Stone away for that happiness that you'll need (as 'war weariness' unhappiness will probably continue to grow). In the meantime, get going on that potential Dye plantation, and start looking at popping that border to get at the jungle Gems near Taurus.

The suggestion to run an Artist (through Caste) in each of Taurus and Sidon is simply to generate the 30 required for your first border pop seeing that these cities are not generating any culture. They're not intended to produce Great People and once the borders have popped, you can use the citizen in another way.

Seville is however a reasonable city to pop a Great Person. Barcelona will pop the next Great Person due to its Wonders, but you can start looking at Seville as the city after that. It's 'a bit of a coin toss' as to whether you work the Gold Mine or run the extra Specialist; 7 + 3 vs. 6 + 3 for the Scientist. It depends on how quickly you'll want the Academy in Madrid.

Again ... best of luck.

 

[stormarack]

Thank you very much for all the points that you pointed out . I will try and work on them in this game and those to follow . Also, I understand how games can take up a LOT more time