AlphaShard
Emperor
You could have waited a turn but were going to have to get our defenses up for other cities as well.
War Plans
- Thread starter BLubmuz
- Start date
Trystero
Deity
Wait - We launched an attack, requested a cease-fire, and then offered an apology? What the heck is going on?
Sorry I have been really busy with RL so I haven't been following things closely, I was at work so I couldn't look this over carefully, and I'm not sure how much weight my vote should carry, but I think this could have planned a little better. As I eluded to before, I think we should not start a war with Quat until Amazon is on board with the plan. We offered Amazon a choice of options, and they asked us not to attack until they had finished off Merlot. As Alltriia said, this breaks that agreement. I think our diplomacy is a complete wreck right now.
Fortunately, I think we managed to confuse Quatronia as well. They just want compensation for sinking the frigate. I'm not sure how to explain our actions though.
Sorry I have been really busy with RL so I haven't been following things closely, I was at work so I couldn't look this over carefully, and I'm not sure how much weight my vote should carry, but I think this could have planned a little better. As I eluded to before, I think we should not start a war with Quat until Amazon is on board with the plan. We offered Amazon a choice of options, and they asked us not to attack until they had finished off Merlot. As Alltriia said, this breaks that agreement. I think our diplomacy is a complete wreck right now.
Fortunately, I think we managed to confuse Quatronia as well. They just want compensation for sinking the frigate. I'm not sure how to explain our actions though.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
I don't know who offered a cease fire. Alpha or Altria, according to CivStats.
Of course i'm against any peace.
If we wait for Ama or CDZ we can wait forever. As i already said, time to let them feel our weight.
With 10 turns of forced peace Quat can react and we lose any surprise.
Let's see how Ama and CDZ will react to decide.
Of course i'm against any peace.
If we wait for Ama or CDZ we can wait forever. As i already said, time to let them feel our weight.
With 10 turns of forced peace Quat can react and we lose any surprise.
Let's see how Ama and CDZ will react to decide.
AlphaShard
Emperor
I didn't offer the peace, I kow you don't want to wait on CDZ or Amazon but you could have waited for your team members to cast there votes. Irgy and Husch still haven't posted yet.
Then there's a real problem, because I shure didn't offered peace. I only looked around.
Blubmuz: If a group signs a treaty or they bind to it as much as it hurts or they break it and from that game on they will very likely won't be trusted again.
-----
This is a mess. I really don't know how we can fix this. Ask for a revert and lose the element of surprise or continue(from what I can see without enough troops)?
EDIT:
"and then offered a cease fire with an apology."
Can this be proved without a screenshot(incase they don't have it)?
"and we were waiting to hear what you guys had to say about the next stage of the game"
Conversation takes two identities or is a monolog.
EDIT2:
I have checked my save taken from my login at 5/6/11 3:12 pm. There's still war.
Blubmuz: If a group signs a treaty or they bind to it as much as it hurts or they break it and from that game on they will very likely won't be trusted again.
-----
This is a mess. I really don't know how we can fix this. Ask for a revert and lose the element of surprise or continue(from what I can see without enough troops)?
EDIT:
"and then offered a cease fire with an apology."
Can this be proved without a screenshot(incase they don't have it)?
"and we were waiting to hear what you guys had to say about the next stage of the game"
Conversation takes two identities or is a monolog.
EDIT2:
I have checked my save taken from my login at 5/6/11 3:12 pm. There's still war.
Yes, that's what CavScout mentioned in their message.
AlphaShard
Emperor
So I guess were sticking to the war then?
I 'm agree with the war decision.
But if you make assault, you should more get than 1 frigate, 2-3 galleons should be the loot.
Our waiting allways is owed our ally with Ama, that is the main purpose of our actions. Don't forget they 've 30 rifles recruit every turn 3. There is no intelligence about them. We didn't know if they want fight against mer or not. Perhaps they are waiting of order to attack us.
But if you make assault, you should more get than 1 frigate, 2-3 galleons should be the loot.
Our waiting allways is owed our ally with Ama, that is the main purpose of our actions. Don't forget they 've 30 rifles recruit every turn 3. There is no intelligence about them. We didn't know if they want fight against mer or not. Perhaps they are waiting of order to attack us.
AlphaShard
Emperor
Not to mention all the espionage they have been focusing on can easily be used against us for them to "mule" techs off of us.
Also if were going to be "on a roll" with the war machine I don't think CDZ should be next target. I know I'm counting the chickens before the eggs hatch but we need to keep in mind the big picture and who's the biggest threat to us wining. 1500AD is just around the corner.
Also if were going to be "on a roll" with the war machine I don't think CDZ should be next target. I know I'm counting the chickens before the eggs hatch but we need to keep in mind the big picture and who's the biggest threat to us wining. 1500AD is just around the corner.
First I would like to the cease fire offer issue to be cleared. Is there a way to verify if anyone in Sirius indeed offered it or is just Q scheming and trying to gain 10 turns based on an made up offer?
I'm not against going after Q next, but not right now. We need to solidate defences and build more military first as we will be exposed to invasion when we would invade Q. But now the plan is blown as we won't have another chance to surprise them.
This is the last draft of the ETTT, right? I was mistakenly under the impression that it had a non-agression clause.
But Amazon's request:
"(...)reconsider the path of excluding CDZ and or Quatronia from the ETTT until we have completed the task which was the purpose of the ETTT, the complete destruction of M&M."
and their agreement to our option A does force us to not exclude(also involving not attacking) other ETTT members untill they are done with Merlot.
I'm not against going after Q next, but not right now. We need to solidate defences and build more military first as we will be exposed to invasion when we would invade Q. But now the plan is blown as we won't have another chance to surprise them.
This is the last draft of the ETTT, right? I was mistakenly under the impression that it had a non-agression clause.
But Amazon's request:
"(...)reconsider the path of excluding CDZ and or Quatronia from the ETTT until we have completed the task which was the purpose of the ETTT, the complete destruction of M&M."
and their agreement to our option A does force us to not exclude(also involving not attacking) other ETTT members untill they are done with Merlot.
The beauty of having a war plans thread was that I thought I didn't need to follow it quite so closely (I'm reading it but not keeping obsessively up to date). This thread I thought was for planning the details of combat, not for announcing the decision to declare war. The declaration of war has diplomatic consequences and should at least be mentioned somewhere else before it happens. Has anyone told Amazon that we are about to declare, before waiting for Merlot to be finished off? (EDIT - ok I read back a bit further to what passed for an announcement. Could you at least post that message in the "diplomatic messages" thread. It's a rather important message to have left out of the records, don't you think?)
I can take some responsibility for not being aware of it. I have some RL issues at the moment which took my attention completely for the weekend and may force me to resign my involvement in this team anyway (I will make sure I announce if I do though rather than just disappear). However, I'm clearly not the only person who was completely unaware of and confused about this declaration, as it certainly wasn't me who offered a ceasefire.
And for all that I can be criticised for not following the war thread, I'm quite sure someone else can be equally criticised for not following the diplomacy thread if they honestly thought this declaration was acceptable. For reasons well enough explained by Alltriia already.
I can take some responsibility for not being aware of it. I have some RL issues at the moment which took my attention completely for the weekend and may force me to resign my involvement in this team anyway (I will make sure I announce if I do though rather than just disappear). However, I'm clearly not the only person who was completely unaware of and confused about this declaration, as it certainly wasn't me who offered a ceasefire.
And for all that I can be criticised for not following the war thread, I'm quite sure someone else can be equally criticised for not following the diplomacy thread if they honestly thought this declaration was acceptable. For reasons well enough explained by Alltriia already.
AlphaShard
Emperor
Well I follow all threads honestly but that doesn't change the fact that we should have made sure that all members gave voice to this war.
Also I do believe we talked to Amazon about the next phase after M&M and as Alltriia pointed out they asked us to wait.
Also I do believe we talked to Amazon about the next phase after M&M and as Alltriia pointed out they asked us to wait.
So all up, there was a stretch of 7 hours between proposing a "vote" on whether to declare, and declaring. Those 7 hours being midnight to 7am my time. So even were I following this thread religiously, I'd never have seen it in time.
I'm sorry but that is absolutely f@#$ing ridiculous.
I'm sorry but that is absolutely f@#$ing ridiculous.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Disaster!
I don't know how it's possible, since we have clear view of all the Quat island. They materialized dozens of units, wiped our East stack (GG included).
I can understand if there're galleons in the city or near, but not a ship is in sight, aside the known frigates. Where was that army?
We have seen 1 rifle per city and 2 cannons on iron. No galleons.
In any case, we're dancing, so, let's dance.
Strategical retreat in the EIs, load them and concentrate on a single city, their Capital.
I noticed no one logged this turn. We have 5 hours left.
I don't know how it's possible, since we have clear view of all the Quat island. They materialized dozens of units, wiped our East stack (GG included).
I can understand if there're galleons in the city or near, but not a ship is in sight, aside the known frigates. Where was that army?
We have seen 1 rifle per city and 2 cannons on iron. No galleons.
In any case, we're dancing, so, let's dance.
Strategical retreat in the EIs, load them and concentrate on a single city, their Capital.
I noticed no one logged this turn. We have 5 hours left.
AlphaShard
Emperor
The Rifles obviously came from there last stack they were making when Mavericks were still around. They probably had a Galleon or two hiding in fog. Clearly we should have waited.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
My opinion is still the same: let's dance.
BTW, no messages from Ama and CDZ.
If Altria wants, it's OK send the clarification to Quat by PM or gmail. It changes nothing, it's just a fair clarification between players.
For now, all we can do is load the EIs and strategically retreat. Then, we have a couple days before decide.
BTW, no messages from Ama and CDZ.
If Altria wants, it's OK send the clarification to Quat by PM or gmail. It changes nothing, it's just a fair clarification between players.
For now, all we can do is load the EIs and strategically retreat. Then, we have a couple days before decide.
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