war strategies

I would love to see a screenshot of your civ turning that much of a profit (or any at all), with 100% science, and you're buying luxeries, with all that money.

The AI knows how much money you got when you barter for luxuries, so if you're rich, they'll charge you a ton.
 
thcsquad: It's easy - tech trading!! I can easily get 60 gold/turn for a tech from most civs - I plan to keep this going until the end of the Industrial age.

When I said I buy techs I didn't mean I buy every single tech - I just buy the ones which are rather peripheral to the main tech tree, such as Sanitation etc. (While main main research programme is focused to get Motorized Transportation ie Panzers as soon as possible).

I don't really mind the other civs getting the techs -it's much more fun when the enemy is on a similar tech level , than when you have enemy spearmen defending against modern armour! Any way, the AI doesn't upgrade very quickly (especially most of their money ends up in my coffers! :lol: ), so that I will still have a modern army than my enemies.

Here is the screenshot:



Does that screenshot work?

I don't think it will work, since the link is to my local file. For some reason when I try sending it as attachment, nothing happens. Does anyone know how to post a picture properly?
 
Originally posted by Moulton
If you want a limited war--say, to get some resource, or cut them off from it, take the capital first and destroy their culture bias. Otherwise you WILL lose any captured cities back to them.

I disagree. The only reason you would need to worry about culture flipping is if you have a weak culture.

If you are paying attention to the proper development of your cities, you will not experience culture flipping.

I have unintentionally won two cultural victories (Huge map, 12 civs, Warlord difficulty) while attempting Military / Domination victories. I can count on one hand the number of cities I have lost due to culture flipping since purchasing Civ III (Although I have not yet played on the higher difficulties.)

All the 30+ cities on my main continent, which I originally shared with the Zulus and Persians (may they Rest In Peace) are fully improved. Most of them can produce Modern Armor or Mech. Infantry in 2 - 4 rounds. There is no long-term military strength sacrificed by making cultural improvements.

The bottom line: Strong Culture = No Lost Cities Due To Culture Flipping

Kingpin
 
I don't think I lost more than a few cities on Warlord. Some Aztec cities flipped back long after they were captured, and I did capture their capitol. But only two or three. And I won that one and another on cultural.
I have not managed a cutlural victory on higher levels. Flipping happens. You will experience it in time, especially on higher levels. And I assure you that I do all the right things. Not as good as some, but .... I do win games. The current one is touch and go... trying to stay out of war on this one. Was forced into war, and took several cities. Time will tell if I can hold them.

This is not really a bad idea... it should be harder to hold a captured nation than just to conquer it. It needs fine tuning.
 
Blitzing the capital is always good, provided you thnk you can pull it off. It's mainly useful against civs that are weaker than you.

I did this with The Egyptians as The Romans. Thebes was a small way from the sea, although not actually on the coast. I landed my tanks on the coast and completely obliterated all the defences in the area, and took Thebes. After you've took out the heart of a civs' culture and production base, you can do whatever you want with them.
 
I use outdated cavalry, and sometimes UUs for leader-fishing. If I attack a city with a tank or mech inf or whatever, and end up with a 1-hp defender left in the city, I'll whip out my leftover 5-hp elite cav or UU unit to take a crack at him. Usually a 5-hp Immortal can take out a 1-hp infantry most of the time. If the old unit dies, so be it. One less to support. If you do this as a practice, you'll almost always get 2-4 or more leaders per game! If I don't have an elite unit around, I'll use a vet to try to make an elite. Once again, if it dies, I no longer have to support that unit.

Sure, I could disband my stacks of Immortals, or Cav, or Cossacks, or Jags, even, but they work great for leader-fishing, and are basically free units in that if they die, it's no big deal. I think I've even killed a 1-hp mech inf with an elite Jag before...and got a leader!

It's just something fun to do...another thing you can use for this, is if you have an ancient-unit army (I know, you can reload the army using the bug, but I usually don't...it's just me) you can use it on 1-hp defenders...
 
I don't build wealth hardly ever, once I get infantry...I just build more infantry and arty. Once I get tanks, I build them, too. The AIs will leave you alone a lot if you've got 7 or 8 transport-loads of tanks/inf/arty sitting stacked with 7 or 8 destroyers. I stack transports with destroyers because they have the same movement points, so on a long goto, the stack moves together, destroyers first. I usually send BBs ahead to clear the roads :rocket:

When you've got 24 tanks, 24 infantry, and 16 arty in a stack of transports, along with the destroyer power to get them to shore, the AI doesn't like the idea of declaring war on you very well, unless they're just stupid, of course, as the AI is sometimes....of course, if I have the production power to create that stack, that means I also have on the mainland stacks usually equal to at least that much combat power, if not twice that much....AIs do not like to attack you when you've got 3 mech inf in EVERY city, with a mobile attack force sitting on the rails somewhere that can usually wipe out their 30-100 unit stacks in short order.

And, workers count in their calculations, too, so if you've got 100 workers, they see those as part of your total military count...
 
AI counts the amount of units you have, not their quality.
So even in modern era if for some reason you still have 50 swordsemen lying around, the AI will think you have a more powerful army then them.
That also works with workers.

A thing about upgrading units, is that i usually don't bother to upgrade unless i have Leonardos. The price is usually very high so i skip it.
I end up have making the latest defensive unit and disbanding on of older ones.

I rarely use the ROP to attack because you'll never get that chance again in the game because the AI will never trust you. In my games i usually take out the largest AI civ last so i do the ROP on them.

A tactic i learned from another topic on taking over enemies on a different continent turned out to be a really great one.
The thing is that if you plan to conquer a civ on another continent send some offensive troops onto their continent take a city and immediately following the offensive troops bring in some defensive ones.
This worked best when i had infantry and cavalry and the AI had riflemen and a few infantry(they never upgrade.) I took a city after overloading it with cavalry and i sent about 8 infantry in along with 4 artillery.
Everybody fortified and i rushed a temple. First there would be no cultural flip because of the amount of units in the city and then the AI sent all its cavalry and knights and riflemen and everything to take the city. They all fell to my infantry and i got a leader which made an infantry army. I soon realized that the AI had no offensive units left so i quickly sent cavalry out to cut off resources so it couldn't make more. A few more enemy cavalry came about and died and then i invaded with alot of artillery bombing down infantry and riflemen.

And there's great news about artillery. Apparently in the new patch artillery will be able to kill units. YAY!! Now i can kill infantry with just artillery and i won't lose as much cavalry.
It will make more battles during the early industrial era.
 
Okay, I've noticed a lot of people mentioning to wage wars when you have clear objectives such as resources or Wonders to capture. And a few have mentioned how 'bad' it is to raze enemy cities. I disagree here.

I used to play by capturing cities and then holding them through culture and military strength, and beating the enemy into submission. But occasionally the AI gets up with this and they gang up on you. Believe me it's not much fun waging war against 8 AI civs when none of the others will back you up!

One quick way of ending a war is to raze some of the captured cities. You don't want to do it all the time - captured cities deep inside the enemys territory can be great presents for you - but as one person mentioned it does make them bitter. While they aren't so much for being polite to you anymore, they begin to play less aggressively.

Whether you go about razing their largest cities - too much bother in controlling, or their small ones - not worth controlling, it has the same effect. The AI runs for cover.

There are 2 big bonuses that result from razing cities. The first and most obvious one is that the larger a city, the more workers you get from it. A ratio of 1 worker for every 2 or 3 pop is what I understand it's at. And these workers you don't pay for under a democracy or for being above the unit allowance.

The second bonus is that when you sue for peace, they will give you almost everything that can. I have been able to convince the AI to give me 300 gold, 15 gold per turn, plus two cities and a couple of extra workers after razing half their cities.

Not a bad start - especially if you have a number of fronts you're fighting on due to alliances and such.

Also, it allows you to move in and build new cities - while they will never get large, a quick temple line of smaller cities provides an effective cultural wall against their re-expansion.
 
Can someone give me a good strategy on how to get a Leader quickly in the game? I've been playing since January and have still not received ANY leaders. Please assist.:confused:
 
You need elite units. The easiest way to get a leader is have your elite attack the last defender in the city. To figure out the last defender you can see if they are conscripted or obsolete compared to the current units. Also use your first leader for an army and win a battle so you can make Herioc Epic which will increase the chance of leaders.
Also when upgrading units don't upgrade those elites. leave them to take out the last defender like i said.

In my recent game i have got so far 6 leaders. And i'm not even militaristic! (egypt). Militaristic civs have a bigger chance of getting GL. I've seen/had games in which there have been 7-8 GLs.

So always make that army unless there's is an extremely important wonder you want/need such as UN.
 
Thank you
 
Many people seem to value Cavalry and mobile offensive units as the best way to break open besieged enemy cities. While I can see this working in Medevil times and once you have tanks, there is that curious gap in the offensive tech tree that is know as the industrial ages.

Since Replaceable Parts can be researched quite early in the Industrial age and it gives you the 6/10 infantry, there can be a long period where the defensive units have a strong advantage over the offense ( 6/3 Cavalry , which doesn't actaully have any better offensive stat than the infantry ). You get trench warfare very much like WW1. Many suicidal charges are needed by infantry and cavalry just to kill one defending infantry, especailly if they are in a large city :(

This post explains my method for conducting reasonably fast, very efficient war in this tech environment.

Firsty identify why you are in this war :
a) They started it and you want peace. You're stalling until they will talk to you.
b) Limited war to get a specific objective: a resource or a clearly defined chunk of territory. Also you might just be punishing them for starting a war, but be clear how far you're going to punish them.
c) You plan to drive them into the sea and own all of their land.

All of these scenarios can be handled with variations on the same theme: the AI does not understand railroads and does not understand artillery (which becomes available with replaceable parts at the start of the age of trench warfare). All of the tactics below become more effective the larger the map is, as you have a bigger empire's troop output that you can concentrate just as effectivly using railroads.

So what units do you have available ?

1. Horsebased units upgraded to cavalry. Nice to have hanging around but don't bother building any more, as they're going to be obselete soon and they're not key to the plan.

2. Infantry. Very hard for the AI to kill. Makes your cities very hard to take. Slow to move around, so you want lots spare. Also they're actaully going to be doing a lot of the attacking, so you'll be loosing some of them. 50% of your unit producing cities should be making infantry. All of these cities should have barracks

3. Big Guns. Artillery. Upgrade all those old cannons and catapults (small point here - cannons can't do mountains, artillery can).
You just cannot get enough of these. 50% of your unit producing cities should be producing these. If you find that you're not loosing too many infantry then up this % to 60 or 70 %. These cities don't need barracks as there's no such thing as a veteran artillery.

The arguments about alliances / RoP and such like we will leave, as they belong in a discussion about diplomacy. They are important, but lets just stick to the tactics of war here.

There are 2 themes we use :

Firstly, your large stacks of artillery can hit any tile in your empire and any tile within 2 moves of your borders at will. This is becuase you've buit a good rail network , right ? The firepower will be delivered without mercy, and any stack of guns will be covered by at least 3 infantry. Armies of infantry can be good for this role, as you don't care if they can't attack as frequently as solo units : they are there as a deterrant.

Secondly, fortified units in cities are very hard to kill. Units moving thorugh open ground are much easier to kill. Any unit that you place in the open ( especailly if it got hurt fighting ) should get a 4 hp infantry escort. Any unit of theirs that shows its face should be gunned down with no mercy. This is after all trench warfare, attrition is king, and anything you can kill easily is much better than letting it get fortified in a big city.

Now the actual tactics, depending on which warfare mode you are
in.

a) Defensive war mode. You are numerically inferior to the opposition, so don't plan to make inroads into his terriroty. He will dutifully send stacks of units at you. Try to hold the hills and high ground near your border with stacks of infantry + artillery. Shred as many units of his to 1 hp with artillery fire as possible. Even if you lack the units to actaully kill them afterwards then they are knocked out of the offense and will be retreated to heal. All your artillery should be moved into firing positions and fired every turn. If you run out of targets, save the spare artillery until the end of the turn. Sometimes you'll attack a 1hp infantry with one of yours and still loose, and their infantry gets promoted, thus gaining 1hp. Use your spare shots to put them back down to 1 hp. If you still have spare shots then take out the railroads an roads across the border in his empire to slow down the offense and slow down the recycling of damaged units. If you feel you have some spare infantry / cavalry for offensive raids then use them to attack his 1 hp units. Start with is cavalry ( since its alrady been bombarded to 1 hp it can't retreat from your infantry ). If you get on to killing his 1 hp infantry then take the units on plains / grassland / desrt first. Be very careful about attacking across rivers and attacking fortified infantry. As soon as his 1 hp infantry gets dug in or in hills then there is a small chance your 4/4 infantry will loose, and the whole idea here is to inflict attrition while sustaining minimal actual unit losses yourself. Use his stacks to keep your units in position.

Eg , you have 15 artillery guarded on a hill by 5 infantry and he has moved a stack of 6 cavalry to the adjacant grassland. More cavlary and infantry is coming up behind. You have 2 spare cavalry on your rail network. Fire all the artillery at the cavalry until they are 1 hp each. Draft in more Artillery from elsewhere if you have it and need to. You can probably afford to unfortify 2-3 infantry. Attack with these, killing the 1 hp 3 def cavalry. Attack with your 2 cavalry as well. Don't kill the last 1 hp cavalry, as this will pull your attacking unit off your defended hill and into the open. If you don't have a spare cavalry available to kill the last unit in a stack ( ie attack and retreat again ) then let it live. You have inferior numbers so need to preserve every unit you can.

This tactic also forms the basis of B) Limited war , and C) Total Annihilation war when mopping up his counter attacks. The first 5 or so turns will probably involve much of your artillery shattering his counter attacks, and not much taking of cities, but this phase will pass as you slaughter his offensive troops and take light losses yourself.

This method can be used to hold an enemy with many more troops for many turns. In the end he will agree to peace and you won't have lost too many troops or too much progress vs the rest of the world.

How you take cities in limited and total war :
Its the same basic method for both.

Points to note about defended cities :
1. Defenders get 50% bonus if pop > 6 and 100% bonus if pop > 12. They also get 50% bonus if the city is on a hill, 25% bonus of you attack across a river, and 50% bonus just for being fortified.

So infantry fortified in a size 15 city on a hill has an effective defense of 10 + 10 * (1 + 0.5 + 0.5 ) = 30 !!!. Verses any of your attackers with attack 6 then theu will win 5 / 6 combat rounds. Your 16/16 army of cavalry stands a better than even chance of dying against a single 4/4 infantry !!!

2. A beseiged city will draft futher infantry. It can't do this if the popluation is <= 6

3. A damaged defender will recover all his hp if fortified in a city with barracks.

So how do you deal with this massively powerful defense ?.
Artillery. Guns. Shooting big shells. Bombardment. Lots and lots and lots of it. You just can't get enough, its like Cholcolate or MTV. Too much is never enough. I tend to deal with artillery in my offensive phase in stacks of 20 +. I have been known to fire 50 shots at a single beseiged city and then choose not attack it that turn.

When to attack a city :
1. Pop <= 6. If you plan to keep the city then it pays to bombard it all the way down to 1 pop, then you hardly ever get culture flipped.
2. Best defensive unit showing has 1 hp. Ideally the barracks will be destroyed if you are in a multi turn bombardment.

This takes a lot of shooting. Patch 1.17 raised the building and population defense vs bombardment to 12. When you fire at a city it seems to randomly determine if you target a building, a defender or a pop point. If the pop is already 1 and all the targetable building are already gone them you can still target them, and your bombardment attempt fails on those shots. Getting the last 2 infantry out of a ruined town can take a lot of guns, but if you have to shell then for 3 turns, so be it, at least you are not loosing units and they have all but lost the use of that town in terms of production, culture and population.

Once you are attacking it make little difference if you use cavalry or infantry, as the opponemt has 1 hp the cav won't retreat if they're loosing anyway. Lets revisit our beseiged hilltop town from earlier:
Pop is now down to 4, we know there are 4 infantry in it because we were paying attention as our 30 artillery damaged each one in turn. The barracks have been destroyed (actually everything has pretty much destroyed, though we suspect there might still be a marketplace standing). The defending infantry now has only a 100% def bonus , as we have reduced the pop from 15 to 4, so a total effective def of 20. The infantry will win approx. 75% (20 / (20 + 6 )) of rounds vs our attacker, but it only has 1 hp, so must win 4 rounds in a row to actaully win the battle. Better still we migh be bringing some elite untis to the party. P(win vs vet) = 0.35 for the defender. P(win vs elite) = 0.27. Yes , you will loose some units taking the city, but probably only 1 or 2, and he has actually lost more infantry in the process than you have.

Even better is the fact that half taking the city doesn't actaully cost you anything. If you half take a city by throwing 10 cavalry at it and don't complete the job, then next turn you'll be looking at more healed / drafted / reinforcement defenders, and you'll have 5 dead cavalry and 5 1 hp cavalry. If you bombard the hell out of the town and it doesn't get reduced enough, you just sit tight and repeat next turn. If you really have bitten off more than you can deal with them you'll find that his counter attack forces you to retreat the artillery from the siege and use them to crush to offensive, smoothly transitioning you to a defensive war of attrition with very little pain.

Some words on Manoeuvre :

Infantry and artillery are slow, but railroads make up for this.
Railroads only work for you if they are outside the enemy terrirory, so clearly there is some slow moving to be done to actually take enemy cities. Some pointers.

1. Unless you are totally on the defensive, don't take out roads and railways in the enemy territory - they'll be yours soon enough and you're going to need them to jump your artillery around the place.

2. Artillery have a 2 tile rage. Somtimes they can hit the enemy city while still on a railroad in your territory, particularty in the opening phase of the war as you fight from across the original cultural boundaries. Often your artillery can reach a firing location only 1 tile into the enemy territory, so you plan 1 go ahead, choose a city to take , move gun stack 1 tile into enemy land, add 5 or so infantru to keep them protected, and fire away next turn. Once you leave your territoy your guns and infantry are only moving 1 tile anyway, so you might as well move them onto hills or mountains if any present themselves. Keep them on the enemy roads or railroads however, as once the enemy city falls the terriroty will be yours and you don't want to waste a turn just getting your stack back onto the railroad network. Higher ground also means to can see what effect your shooting has ( see point 4 ).

3. The attackers. Its easy to get in a situation where your gun stack has wrecked their city from 2 tiles away, but no attackers are on hand to deliver the killing blow. Forward planning is needed. Always have in mind which city you plan to move onto next. Bear in mind that is might not be next to the city you're currently working on. Your rail network allows you to switch your next attack to a city at the other end of the front. Also remember that the cultural borders shift as you take a town. If you are looking at moving on a city next to the one you have nearly taked, then play out the attack on the city you expect to take this turn first. Then you can see how the cultural border has shifted, and which railroad tiles now belong to you, then move making full use of the newly take RR tiles and attack the next city.

Often you will have a turns lag at the various units move through enemy tiles into position. 2 possiblilites :

Small gun stack - you'll need multi turn bombardment to reduce the target city.
Turn 1 - Guns and escort move into firing position.
Turn 2 - guns fire, escort infantry move adjacenmt to target city. Additional infanty move onto guns to protect them.
Turn 3 - gund fire, infantry take city (if conditions are met to assault the city). RR tiles become yours, spare guns move to next fire location......

Large Guns stack ( Depends on defenses... but 25 + is beggining to be large - only one turn of firing will be needed.

Turn 1 - Infantry forward assault team move in to enemy tile. Guns are still busy shooting at previous target.
Turn 2 - Guns move to fire location with escort. Forward assault team move adjacent to target.
Turn 3 - Guns fire, forward assault team take city. If the ground to be covered is flat then you can dispense with some of the assault team if you have enough cavalry to deliver the killing blow.

4. Try very hard to have a unit who can see the results of your bombardment. Either use high ground or a "forward spotter" infantry. This allows you to see how many defending untis there are, and when the last one is reduced to 1 hp so you can attack.

5.Be careful with rivers. They are easy to overlook and can swing the defenders chances higher. Plan your manoeuvers well.

6. Cavalry. Since they have 3 movement they can provide a flexible shock assault squad without planning movement turns ahead. If you had a stack of infantry assigend to take a town and they have a very bad battle ( or you messed up the planning ) then the enemy city might be left standing with a single 1 hp defender. You just know you're going to be looking at another 3 defenders next turn, so now the few cavalry you own that were held in reserve on your rail network can swing in and save you a turn or 2 of re-bombardment.

-snip-
......see next post
 
-snip-

continues from last post

These tactics will still work when tanks and mech. inf come along, as half the probelm with taking a town is the massive defensive bonus given by the size of the town. Def values of units may go up with tech, but citizens will always have def vs guns of 12.

Guns vs bombers is a whole other debate ... and a very interesting one too..... for another time
:cool:

Robin
 
robinm's tactics make even more sense if you have the 1.21f patch. Lethal bombardment makes artillery even more deadly although this feature is turned off by default. You'll have to go into the editor and turn it on for each artillery / air / ship that you want to assign it to.

To add to these tactics, I'd also recommend going after the enemy's ability to replace the troops he's losing in the war against you.

It's important to discover what resources the enemy has and how you can deny him of them. Use artillery and Frigates / Ironclads to bombard their saltpetre, iron, horses, rubber, coal... whatever they are using to build troops. And keep bombarding them every time they repair the roads. If you're about to lose a city, pillage the surrounding resources so they can't use them right away.

This will force them to build spearmen or something instead of infantry and horsemen instead of cavalry. It'll save you some trouble down the road...

Kingpin
 
Very nice post robinm, thanks. I've used Artillery/Cavalry/Infantry stacks in this way successfully before, it takes patience but you hardly take any losses. In my current game the usefulness of my Cossacks is coming to an end as the Germans now have Riflemen. Whilst I wait for Tanks I will concentrate on Rifleman/Cannon and then upgrade to Infantry/Artilery.
 
:king: I build a huge artillery group and bomb the heck out of invading armies. Then I build infantry. It works in stopping invasions.
 
Identify your targets. For example Sun Tzu. Barracks only cost half as much as a Knight. You are always as well to give feudalism to AI on a different continent, don't build it yourself, it's nothing like the advantage you get from the pyramids. Bang someone builds it in city X. The owner of civ X suddenly leaps in power. But unbeknownst to them city X is your number one target to facillitate your invasion of that continent.
If you can afford to build units at all you can afford barracks. Send an escort with your settlers and the barracks is the LAST thing you build in most cities before you start pumping out units.
 
Because of low attrition rate and slow progression, this method is actually workable under democracy. I took one city each turn and didn't have ww after taking 7 cities. As soon as I move in my tanks, I got ww the next turn.
 
There's so many ways to go about this. Personally I adopt the following stategy/tactic.

#1 : Don't pussy-foot in a war situation. When it comes to war you want to hit them hard and hit them fast. That means massive numerical superiority. Think long-term... if you think war with a particular Civ is inevitable/desirable, then start producing "war units" before you need to (i.e. you want to have your "war machine" in place, and ready, before you make an official declaration of war).

#2 : The best way to keep your "offense" on the move is to bolster it with good "defense". For example, you take a city with 10 Knights/Cavalry in your attack force. Ideally you want to have Mustekmen/Infantry on the way to garrison the city and free up your attack pieces.

#3 : If you think that you're going to be in a prolonged war (i.e. he is totally destroyed, or you're totally destroyed), then don't f*ck around. Convert your entire infrastructure/production to military (barracks, harbors, airports and units). And DO NOT STOP BUILDING MILITARY until you're guaranteed a (complete) victory. This is one of the big mistakes I made in my Warlord/Regent games -- always conducting war in a half-ass manner. Quite simply: bury your enemy with your military. Always bring overwhelming odds against enemy cities. Use a combined force of attack & defense pieces. One thing that helps immensely, in what's sure to be a protracted war, is to convert to military mobilization (shift-m -- can only be used after you've discovered Nationalism).

#4 : If you're attacking a enemy Civ who is quite powerful/technologically advanced, use whatever means at your disposal to prompt nuetral/ally Civs into attacking your enemy. More often than not, if you don't sway them into attacking, your enemy will convince them to attack you (which sucks).

Hope this helps.

Out,
Volstag
 
Top Bottom