Warhammer Fantasy Battles Mod Brainstorm Thread

Right. As I was saying, I think there needs to be 2 more civics:

A government Theocracy which would decrease war weariness, and maybe make religious buildings generate more happiness and gold maybe.

A religious 'Organised Religion', although that might have to be renamed. What I liked about that one in the core Civ 4 game is that it halted the spread of other religions and aided the spread of yours - and allowed the building of missionaries, all of which I think would really tie in well with the warhammer world - especially the halting of other religions. Chaos cults invariably exist, yes - but they're generally stamped down on hard wherever possible.

HE rulers - while I agree in principle that it's more important to sort out the rest of the game before adding more (if any) leaders, I think it's very important for the Everqueen to be represented somewhere. She is, after all, half of the ruling power of Ulthuan. I'd be going for either Astarielle, the Everqueen at the time of the Chaos Incursion, or more likely Alarielle, who would be arcane, hidden and creative/philosophical - not too sure right now. Alarielle is the current Everqueen, and appeared in 5th Ed HE book along with the official maiden guard (a national unit planned for hopefully?).

I don't know if it's possible to tie in a UU to the leaders, but that could make for an interesting choice - Maiden Guard with the Everqueen or the White Lions with the Phoenix King.

Will do more thinking, but that's all I have for now.
 
In reply to Arathlan comments on the eldar gods... they have the same name but they are not the same. Khaine is only called Kaela Mensha Khaine it means Khaine of the bloody handed (or some such derivitive) they are not the same... they are both the lord of murder but Khaine is the elven god of murder and differes hugely from the Eldar god of murder. Khaine earned the epitet Kaela Mensha because he killed the Eldar champion of Vaal, Khaine in Warhammer does not have that epilet. In 40k he allowed Slannesh (spelling) to eat all the Eldar gods excluding the laughing god who was to fast... he did this to test his strength and guess what he lost and was split into a thousand pieces. Chaos in warhammer was not created by latent phycic (spelling) energy... it was caused when the gates at the poles exploded and released chaos. They are not linked and Games workshop has said that for a long time... they did have a common link early in the days of Warhammer and 40k... but they have distanced to a large extent the product range.

Lord Olleus sadly that will yield a limited range of gods... because and i will say this Warhammer has never written more than about 4 pages on Araby, Ind, Cathy, Nippon, Estalia, Tilea, the Southlands, the Amazons etc... they have only ever released a single army book for Ogres as well... it means some products are extremly well devolped and some have none. Brittonia has changed to such an extent between army books its mind boggling and so has Khemri. I wouldnt be surpised to find out that they would struggle to name 6 religions... its happened to me before in a Gamesworkshop store.. when i started asking questions about the background and they couldnt answer.. (even though it was in the background of the time)

Religions as follows...
Sigmar (more of a localised cult in the Empire)
The Lady (more of a localised cult in Brittonia)
Old world gods (morr, taal, Haendryk etc)
Ursun (more of a localised cult in Kislev)
Ulric, (is worshipped in strength in the east of the empire... not sure if he would count as a religion of his own..? but im leaning towards yes the cult of Sigmar and Ulric have fought openly during there lifespans..)
Taal (is in much the same boat as Ulric he has a strong worship in the middle of the empire (the empire is covered in forests more forest than grassland... and he is the god of the forests... go figure who the foresters and whatnot worship)
Old gods (Gog and Magog etc... Albion only small cults in the old world)
Old ones (the creators of the Warhammer world (it is a created world not a natrual world), Not really a religion the Slann (1st generation meet them) know they are coming back they know they were super advanced and they dont as such worship them as gods more as creators
Elven gods, difficult to really put as a single thing.. High Elves, Dark Elves and Wood elves sorta get different ideas... about them...
Orion and (whats her name)... (are really worshipped only by wood elves, dont even know that the other elves know they exist...?)
Phoniex King (is a god or at least considered as one... this im not sure about)
Emperor Woship, (Cathay and Nippon both worship there emperor as a god... but im lead to belive they worship him as part of a pantheon...)
Chaos, well im not sure but Kurgans, Dolgans etc cover a huge area and im lead to belive must have a massive population to attack Kislev and the Empire in strength and win...
Chaos cults, are cults they are secretive and very very hard to stamp out... the amount of chaos worshippers that came out of the ground (spits) during the storm of chaos was huge... they formed there own armies this is a little problem... they are stamped out but i dont think they should be a religion on there own right :D

Organised Religion doesnt really fit... the empire is a sigmarite nation... but it does not persacute other faiths other than Chaos... (and lets face it who doesnt? because it isnt a nice religion? its stated aims are to take over the world and kill all unbelievers and then their gods will creat their version of paradise... not a pleasant thing im sure.... Blood, Plauge, Rampant Change, and Hedonism? sound inviting? cause it wouldnt be.) The empire allows the worship of all Old world gods (see above) as well as Ulric and Taal which have a substantial following...? sound like it persacute other faiths? (Sigmar united the empire he did not unite Brittionia or Kislev so thats why they dont worship him)

Guiles Le Bretton united Brittionia under the guiding hand of the lady and that is why Brittionia worships the lady

Kislev worships Ursun because Ursun is their god a representation of their nation and its hardships and difficulties but also the nations good parts...

Think of its as Saint worshipping a saint tends to be only worshipped in a single area... (well at least local Saints) Joan of Arc is a French saint she hold little power in Germany or England. Likewise Saint George and Thomas Bekett (spelling....) are English saints etc for other nations...

Theocracy are their any in Warhammer? not that i can think of
 
Okay... I'm not entirely certain about the Eldar/Elven God split, but frankly - that's irrelevent to the discussion, so I'll say no more - I haven't really kept up with the 40K developments.

The Elven Gods are in the same boat - or Pantheon rather.

Asuryan ("Emperor of the Heavens", Keeper of Balance, Creator of the Elves - Children of Asur. Wears a mask.)
Isha (Nature mother, "Goddess of Earth, Plants and Forests")
Khaine (War/Murder)
Kurnous (Hunter and Husband of Isha) And YES he is mentioned in the 5th ED HE book - primary God of Ellyrion
Vaul (Smith, crippled and blind and chained to his anvil after challenging Khaine).
Lileath - (Goddess of Magic - most notable for supporting Teclis through the 'sacred' moon staff of Lileath)
Hoeth - not sure how he's differing to Lileath, But the entry for Belannaer in 5th Ed mentions he has a Shrine inside the white tower.
I may be missing a few, but that's what comes off the top of my head and the 5th ED HE book. I'll have to track down my 4th ED one to see if it has any additional fluff.

The Phonix King is the Chosen of Asuryan, And the Everqueen Chosen of Isha - at least of the High Elves. Neither are worshipped as Gode per se.

Orion and Ariel are the Chosen of Kurnous and Isha respectively (Apparently Isha got greedy :p ) and rule the Wood Elves. They are effectively Demigods, retreating to the Oak of Ages (I think) each winter and reawakening each spring.

The Dark Elves worship Khaine. There's probably some Slaaneshi worshippers in there, but they probably don't want Chaos thundering south into Naggaroth, thus the watchtowers etc. I don't have any of the Dark Elf material, so there's not much insight I can give in there.

Isha, Asuryan and Khaine have shrines in Ulthuan - major ones. The everqueen has a right of passage at Gaen Vale, the Phoenix King at the Shrine of Asuryan, and both High Elves and Dark Elves lay claim to the Shrine of Khaine in the north of Ulthuan.

In terms of religions - I have to ask if they're going to be split into their respective dieties or not - because if they ARE then I'll agree 'organised religion' doesn't really fit. If they AREN'T, then I think they still do.

Elves don't worship dwarven gods, or human gods, or orcish gods and vice versa - that's the sort of thing I'd want to represent - but in game terms, I think it's important that there is some religious civic that hastens the spread of a state religion and allows the removal of non-state religions (assuming there's not going to be a relgion for each sect). I can't really see Humans getting all warm and fuzzy over the Horned Rat should Skaven finally make it in.

Granted I haven't kept up with the Undead - but I'd say the Tomb Kings come pretty close to a Theocracy. If you boil it right down, Ulthuan IS a theocracy, led by people 'chosen' by the Gods - while I believe the Everqueen's Throne is also hereditary, the Phoenix King is not. He is chosen democratically, but then Asuryan must accept him - Malekith being the only one to fail so far. Athel Loren goes one step futher and is led by Demigods - physical representations OF Gods. And on the basis that Slann are priests of the Old ones and dictate Lizardmen society, then their civilisation too is a Theocracy - probably the truest one in Warhammer.

Brettonia is a feudal kingdom, The Empire is an Empire I guess - It is rather messy with all those Elector Counts. Orcs and Chaos are Despots, as I suppose are the Dark Elves. Skaven are probably a republic of sorts, what with their council of the Thirteen, and Vampire Counts... well, that depends on the vampire I suppose, but probably a Despot when you come right down to it. Not too sure about Dwarfs (if Warhammer still uses that as the plural), they do have their own set of Gods though.

No clue about Amazons or Norse - or even Chaos Dwarfs for that matter. I only glanced briefly at that book. They seemed closest to Chaotic technocrats to be honest. And Nippon and Cathay are completely alien to me.

On a totally different note, is there any chance of getting a decent sailing vessel earlier in the game. It's a long trek from Galleys to Caravels, which makes Archipelago games very dull.
 
I will probably make sails available more early but can't promise for the next release. The techtree will be revamped probably after the next release that means.
Whatever thx for all the info on religions here I find that most useful. The mod probably won't mirror WH exactly but we're trying to get close. If anyone can get some religionfluff about the civs not supported by GW that'll be highly appreciated. If there's nothing available I'd also like made up fluff for them if the ideas are good.
 
Heh - that's all good. I'm just throwing stuff out there before I forget it.

More HE notes in terms of leaders

Aenarion shouldn't have seafaring. The High Elves didn't rise to sea dominance until after his time. He was a warrior, so he really ought to have defensive, given that he spent most of his life trying to drive Chaos from Ulthuan.

I'm also guessing that for game balance purposes the Ancient Elves are not going to get their dragonriders :p
 
Heres an interesting fact the reason the dark elves were created... was because a fair amount of them worshipped Slaanesh not all of them. But even now the cult of Slaanesh is very strong it competes with the cult of Khaine openly and they fight alot. The watchtowers exist because simply speaking the Dolgans, Kurgans etc dont care if you are a chaos worshipper... you are not one of them. No brotherhood in chaos really....

To organized religion: well just wrack up the values for religions to spread to other civs... and the "cults" if you will while important i think Ploeperpengel solution is great saves it getting really messy.


In the words of Wikipedia

For believers in a religion whose institutions have been more or less equated with the state's institutions in a theocracy, a theocracy is a form of government in which the divine power (in monotheisms the one God) governs an earthly human state, either in person (e.g. as incarnation in a human) or, more often, via its religious institutional representative(s) (e.g. church, temple, mosque), either replacing or dominating the organs of civil government as clerical or spiritual representative(s) of god(s). [1]

Theocracys...
Using this explanation is it possible to say that it is a theocracy but only in loose terms. Divine power in this case a directly elected servant of a god, (real divine power) governs a nation because he is the representitive of the god in question. Name a religion in the real world that puts it followers through a flame that burns them to death if they are impure or lets them pass through if they are? Additionaly they do not govern through a church as such... or even a religious edifice (one could say that they are part of a entrenched religous buerocracy) but if one applies the logic that you used Theocracys...
Ulthuan is not really a theocracy they are the elect of the gods... complex to say but this but the gods do not influence the way it is run (a code of conduct inside the high elves does this) anyone can be a Phoniex king it is an elected title (as i think you said) they are all European monarchs were part of a theocracy (generalisation i know) but they were all crowned by members of various churches... Religion plays an important part in high elven life but i dont think the gods directly put a hand into it (apart from selecting a monarch all they really do is ratify the choice) high elves are regulated by a code of conduct inside their society. Its more of a Absolute monarchy with a divine mandate than a theocracy.

Tomb Kings well they are similar to the high elves... but let me say this their has never been a single ruler of Khemri (to my knowelgde) the gods do *elect* them the moment they deal with the former monarch etc... Nagash made them as they are he created the Tomb kings...

Nothing else really fits into a theocracy apart from Nippon and Cathay (think China and Japan for an idea of what they are like just add X10 to the power of the emperors :D)
 
theres some very nice stuff there guys:thumbsup: thanks for the info:)

Ploe, if i may give a little insight into the religion debate at the moment;):

so far we have come up with these major religions with sub divisions of cults. the cultw will most likely be represented by unique temples, buildings and units that can only be gained after a certain tech is researched, after the necessary religion is adopted. for example, if the Chaos Dwarves found the 'Chaos Cults' religion (below) they are able to build only chaos undivide units and buildings. but then they have access to 4 new technologies, namely The Blood God(khorne), The Lord of Pleasure (slaanesh), Lord of Plague (nurgle) and the Lord of Change(tzeentch). if the Chos dwarves then research "The Blood God" tech, they have access to temples, altars and pillars relevent to Khorne. these buildings subsequently would enable units like Bloodletter deamons and Hell Hounds to be built.

Here are the religions and their cults, and also the Civs which could be relevant to them:

Spoiler :

Old Faiths- so this covers:
-Most of the Old World (the Old Faith)
-High Elves (Asuryanism)
-Dark Elves (Cult of Khaine)
-Wood Elves (Followers of Isha)
-Dwarves (Dwarven Pantheon: Morngrim/ Grungni/ Rukh)
-Lizardmen (The Old Ones)
-Amazons (Animism)
-Arabya (Ormazd (AKA) Al-Alnon)
-Khemri (Ormazd Pantheon excluding ormzad and with the Asp Goddess as the ruler)
-Lhamia (Ormazd Pantheon excluding ormzad and with the Asp Goddess as the ruler)

Young Gods
- and this covers:
-Bretonnia ( Lady of the lake)
-Empire (Sigmar/ Ulric/ Morr/ Rhia/ Manann/ Verena)
-Estalia (Haendryk/ Manann/ Myrmidia)
-Tilea (Luccan and Luccina / Haendryk/ Myrmidia)
-Kislev (Ulric)
-Norse (Odin/ Thore etc)

Dark Children - and this one covers
-Tombkings (Cult of Nagash)
-Lhamia (Cult of Nagash)
-Sylvanians (Cult of Nagash)
-Skaven(The Horned Rat)
-Dark Elves (Cult of Khaine)
-The Empire (Necromantic cults, Clut of Khaine etc)
-Chaos Dwarfs (some corruption of the Dwarven Gods?)

Chaos Cults -and this one covers
-Chaos (Nurgle/Tzeentch/Khorne/Slaanesh/ Chaos Undivided)
-Beastmen (Nurgle/Tzeentch/Khorne/Slaanesh/ Chaos Undivided)
-Chaos Dwarfs (Chaos Undivided)
-Skaven (The Horned Rat)
-Darkelves (Slaanesh)
-Ind (cant remember the name of the god)
-Norse (Chaos Undivided)
-The Empire ((cults such as: )The Purple Hand/ The Red Crown/ The Crimson Sickle/ The Jade Sceptre/ The Black Monks)

Gods of Law - and this one covers
-Cathay (Cult of Celestial Dragon)
-Nippon (Jintoism)
-Arabya (Ormazd (AKA) Al-Alnon)
-Empire (Sigmar)
-Dwarfs (Sigmar-du^m)
-High Elves (Asuryanism)

Barbaric Gods
-Orcs (Gork and Mork)
-Gobbos (Gork and Mork)
-Hobgoblin Hegemony (???)
-Ogre Lords (The Great Maw)


any more ideas for this would be greatly apreciated.:)

PS i hope i got that right ploe :p
 
YAY that would be great :D

I thought Ind worshipped a pantheon of gods...? had no idea it was chaotic Ind, Cathay and Nippon suffered invasions during the great war against Chaos... it was called somewhere the land of a thousand gods...

Amazons and Animism... i do know they use the old ones tech and i do know the Lizardmen and Amazons have a live and let be policy... but maybe thats just me?

Dwarfs (Sigmar-du^m) WHOAH since when? i never knew that

The Empire ((cults such as: )The Purple Hand/ The Red Crown/ The Crimson Sickle/ The Jade Sceptre/ The Black Monks) lol i wouldnt bother with this lot... after all their are chaos cults wherever humans are and elves etc im just wondering if its worth it? and the empire has a cult of Khaine? same boat really (and i swear to god that Khaine is only an elven god... wierdest crossover ever if he is worshipped by men and elves...)

Hobgoblin hegomony? Gork and Mork? maybe they worship their great Khans? (your choice nothing in my memory about who they worship)

Sylvanians and Lhamia (Cult of Nagash) umm not to my knowelgde yes they used his texts but worshipping him? to my knowelgde the vampire counts worshipped nothing execpt themselves... Veneration of Nagash or Pogrency of Nagash might be better

Skaven are a result of chaos? but is the horned rat a chaos god?

Last little quibble.... over the young gods... Estalia might like Haendryk Manann and Myrmidia but they still worship morr and taal etc... same could be said of all the human nations in the old world. Even Kislev worships in a secondary role the gods of the old world as well as Ursun and house spirits...

Thats my gripe and quibbling over for that
 
Psychic_Llamas said:
theres some very nice stuff there guys:thumbsup: thanks for the info:)

Ploe, if i may give a little insight into the religion debate at the moment;):

so far we have come up with these major religions with sub divisions of cults. the cultw will most likely be represented by unique temples, buildings and units that can only be gained after a certain tech is researched, after the necessary religion is adopted. for example, if the Chaos Dwarves found the 'Chaos Cults' religion (below) they are able to build only chaos undivide units and buildings. but then they have access to 4 new technologies, namely The Blood God(khorne), The Lord of Pleasure (slaanesh), Lord of Plague (nurgle) and the Lord of Change(tzeentch). if the Chos dwarves then research "The Blood God" tech, they have access to temples, altars and pillars relevent to Khorne. these buildings subsequently would enable units like Bloodletter deamons and Hell Hounds to be built.

Here are the religions and their cults, and also the Civs which could be relevant to them:

Spoiler :

Old Faiths- so this covers:
-Most of the Old World (the Old Faith)
-High Elves (Asuryanism)
-Dark Elves (Cult of Khaine)
-Wood Elves (Followers of Isha)
-Dwarves (Dwarven Pantheon: Morngrim/ Grungni/ Rukh)
-Lizardmen (The Old Ones)
-Amazons (Animism)
-Arabya (Ormazd (AKA) Al-Alnon)
-Khemri (Ormazd Pantheon excluding ormzad and with the Asp Goddess as the ruler)
-Lhamia (Ormazd Pantheon excluding ormzad and with the Asp Goddess as the ruler)

Young Gods
- and this covers:
-Bretonnia ( Lady of the lake)
-Empire (Sigmar/ Ulric/ Morr/ Rhia/ Manann/ Verena)
-Estalia (Haendryk/ Manann/ Myrmidia)
-Tilea (Luccan and Luccina / Haendryk/ Myrmidia)
-Kislev (Ulric)
-Norse (Odin/ Thore etc)

Dark Children - and this one covers
-Tombkings (Cult of Nagash)
-Lhamia (Cult of Nagash)
-Sylvanians (Cult of Nagash)
-Skaven(The Horned Rat)
-Dark Elves (Cult of Khaine)
-The Empire (Necromantic cults, Clut of Khaine etc)
-Chaos Dwarfs (some corruption of the Dwarven Gods?)

Chaos Cults -and this one covers
-Chaos (Nurgle/Tzeentch/Khorne/Slaanesh/ Chaos Undivided)
-Beastmen (Nurgle/Tzeentch/Khorne/Slaanesh/ Chaos Undivided)
-Chaos Dwarfs (Chaos Undivided)
-Skaven (The Horned Rat)
-Darkelves (Slaanesh)
-Ind (cant remember the name of the god)
-Norse (Chaos Undivided)
-The Empire ((cults such as: )The Purple Hand/ The Red Crown/ The Crimson Sickle/ The Jade Sceptre/ The Black Monks)

Gods of Law - and this one covers
-Cathay (Cult of Celestial Dragon)
-Nippon (Jintoism)
-Arabya (Ormazd (AKA) Al-Alnon)
-Empire (Sigmar)
-Dwarfs (Sigmar-du^m)
-High Elves (Asuryanism)

Barbaric Gods
-Orcs (Gork and Mork)
-Gobbos (Gork and Mork)
-Hobgoblin Hegemony (???)
-Ogre Lords (The Great Maw)


any more ideas for this would be greatly apreciated.:)

PS i hope i got that right ploe :p

Well if it weren't for those many doubles and some errors I'd like that list. If we're going to use it and the idea with the religiontechs isn't yet fully decided since that idea is really vague yet. Anyway I think it's ok to discuss this openly. WH-Religion is so complex we can use any help we can get to get some order into it:p

Much of the fluff is derived from backgroundmaterial for WFRP that was rejected by GW and therefore not published officially. Here's a link:
http://www.warhammer.net/archives/browse.php?id=8

But Sigmar indeed sounds strange for Dwarves.
 
About the Dwarves and Sigmar-du^m: go here:
http://www.warhammer.net/archives/view.php?id=214

And yes, The Skaven god The horned Rat is a Chaos god. if you read the Skaven rule book you will see:)

Where would you propose the Indic Pantheon go? possible under the Young gods?

here is an altered list of the above religions:

Old Faiths- so this covers:
-Most of the Old World (the Old Faith)
-High Elves (Asuryanism)
-Dark Elves (Cult of Khaine)
-Wood Elves (Followers of Isha)
-Dwarves (Dwarven Pantheon: Morngrim/ Grungni/ Rukh)
-Lizardmen (The Old Ones)
-Amazons (The Old Ones / Animism)
-Arabya (Ormazd (AKA) Al-Alnon)
-Khemri (Ormazd Pantheon excluding ormzad and with the Asp Goddess as the ruler)
-Lhamia (Ormazd Pantheon excluding ormzad and with the Asp Goddess as the ruler)

Young Gods - and this covers:
-Bretonnia ( Lady of the lake)
-Empire (Sigmar/ Ulric/ Morr/ Rhia/ Manann/ Verena etc and other human gods)
-Estalia (Haendryk/ Manann/ Myrmidia etc etc and other human gods)
-Tilea (Luccan and Luccina / Haendryk/ Myrmidia etc etc and other human gods)
-Kislev (Ulric, Ursun, and some other human gods)
-Norse (Odin/ Thore etc)

Dark Children - and this one covers
-Tombkings (Cult of Nagash (Veneration of Nagash? Pogrency of Nagash?) )
-Lhamia (Cult of Nagash (Veneration of Nagash? Pogrency of Nagash?))
-Sylvanians (Cult of Nagash (Veneration of Nagash? Pogrency of Nagash?))
-Skaven(The Horned Rat)
-Chaos Dwarfs (some corruption of the Dwarven Gods?)

Chaos Cults -and this one covers
-Chaos (Nurgle/Tzeentch/Khorne/Slaanesh/ Chaos Undivided)
-Beastmen (Nurgle/Tzeentch/Khorne/Slaanesh/ Chaos Undivided)
-Chaos Dwarfs (Chaos Undivided)
-Skaven (The Horned Rat)
-Darkelves (Slaanesh)
-Ind (cant remember the name of the god)
-Norse (Chaos Undivided)

Gods of Law - and this one covers
-Cathay (Cult of Celestial Dragon)
-Nippon (Jintoism)
-Arabya (Ormazd (AKA) Al-Alnon)
-Empire (Sigmar)
-Dwarfs (Sigmar-du^m (its only a minor thing, go here: http://www.warhammer.net/archives/view.php?id=214)
-High Elves (Asuryanism)

Barbaric Gods
-Orcs (Gork and Mork)
-Gobbos (Gork and Mork)
-Hobgoblin Hegemony (Worship of the Great Khans?)
-Ogre Lords (The Great Maw)
-Skaven (The Horned Rat)


PS, im aware of the many cross overs, im just posting the many possibilities. we just need to disguss it and decide what to keep, what to change and what to scrap:)
 
Ploeperpengel is right WFRP is way out of date and is no longer canon... (atm anyway) but i dont see anyway to get around using it. It covers alot of stuff that is needed Nippon, Cathay etc that would be impossible to cover without it. I dont mind using it EXCEPT when goes against current canon.

Rule of WFRP use

1.It must not go against current canon
e.g Khaine as the lord of murder for elves not humans as well....

Faiths:

Old Faiths:
-Most of old World (the old faith) to my knowelge it was only worshipped in what
is now Brittonia, Albion and the Empire. Esatlia, Tilea, Brittonia, Araby and parts of Khemri were ruled from Tilea (roman empire of warhammer) they persecuted the old faith, and it died out everywhere except Albion (where it is stilled worshipped). I would love to see it included but is it really important?

Asuryanism: (for PC reasons it should be changed to Cult of Asuryan, cant discreminate between "evil" and "good" elves. ALL ELVES ARE EVIL!! :lol: )
-yeah i guess it represents the High elven view of their gods

Cult of Khaine:
-represents the Dark elves and their really warped version of faith, they forsook all the other elven gods because they believed they were betrayed by them.

Followers of Isha:
-represents the wood evlen view of the way the world works

Dwarven Pantheon:
-go figure its right :D but... when did the Chaos dwarves spring into being?

The Old Ones:
-to my knowelgde it isnt really a relgion the slann are really really old and they know that the old ones are going to be coming back, its just a matter of time really... Slann are the caretakers of the world that the Old ones created specially for this role
-Amazons well im not a 100% sure but i think they do venerate the old ones maybe as gods? not all powerful creator beings that are mortal.
-Note: the Elves know that the old ones created the world, although they were not old enough or advanced enough to understand why?

Ormazd:
-that is from WFRP i gather. It gets my green light to be used for lack of other infomation.

Ind Pantheon: (Should be put here)
-Note Ind is the oldest human Civ and their gods are hinted to be memories of the old ones (cant say that emphatically)
-They have been worshipping the same gods for a long long time... they have a tiered system of gods though. The original gods of thier pantheon which are strikingly similar to the old ones.
-They also have a 2nd tier of gods that have devolped over time (based on heros etc)
-They are now up to thier 3rd tier of gods which have devolped over time yet again (based on legends)
-These new and newer gods are children or have an affinity with the previous line...
-They still worship the oldest gods but they are not as popular as the current gods (for more infomation look at the tiers in the gods in real world India)
-Infomation drawn from WFRP, Warhammer and some of my own conclusions based on the limited infomation.

Cult of Celestial Dragon:
-Cathay im led to believe is also damm old nearly as old as Ind, but its a choice really it could fit into Young, Old, or God of Order

Jintoism
-Same with Nippon just use it a balancing factor to have an even spread of religions popping :D

Animism:
-would add this for the very early old world (just make it default for civs without a religion, Paganism is so baised and unfair)

Young Gods:
Old World Pantheon: Morr, Ulric, Rhia, Manann, Verena, Haendryk, Myrmidia, Luccan, Luccina
Norse Pantheon: Thor, Odin etc
Kislev: House Spirits
Chaos: they are young gods or at least some of them :P
Drop the rest of them down to a new Civic Patron Gods or into Gods of Law

Dark Children
Hieratic Order
-been reading up about Tombkings they are not Nagash supporters... but im not sure if they still worship their old gods (im lead to believe they are a bit jaded in that respect) but they are still devoted to tradition.

Aristocracy of the Night, Chosen, Blood Kiss? leaning towards Chosen or Blood Kissed/Kiss
-Lhamians sorta just stole what Nagash knew... they dont really worship him, and they sorta buggered up his incarnation anyway and improved on it. But they did worship themselves.
-Sylvanians though they are sorta 4000 years distant but oh well....

The Horned Rat
-Skaven (why not put them into Chaos? or throw Beastmen in here as well they are both Dark Children products of Warpstone and Chaos...)

Chaos Dwarves (throw em in Chaos for simplicity)... No idea what they hell....

Chaos Cults

Tribes of Chaos
-represents the tribes of men that follow Chaos, Dolgans, Kurgans, Wu etc... most of them never worship the main Chaos gods they worship a minor servant or aspect of the god... throw the norse in here as well (i think the different gods special stuff could be a bit later somewhere or just represented with buildings etc)

Children of the Dark gods
-Beastmen are chaos incarnate they are the product of Chaos... maybe put em into Dark Children?

Fallen Brethren
-Chaos Dwarves their wills be a word that the dwarves use to describe them and it wont be pleasant :D

The Horned Rat
-throw them into children maybe...

Cult of Pleasure (im not sure about if this is needed...)
-Darkelves are evil and sadistic and hedonistic at the same time this lot are just worse...

Ind
-Chaos? they got invaded during the great war against chaos...

Gods of Law

Cult of Celestial Dragon (covered allready)

Jintoism (covered allready)

Ormazd (AKA) Al-Alnon
they do change how their pantheon is made up so yeah :lol:

Sigmar-du^m
-i vote we obliterate this farce... :P someone must be sitting in GW and regretting this ever making it into the light :P

Asuryanism- let it be and just keep it in Old Faiths

Patron Gods (they are not old gods, and they are later than the new gods...)

Sigmar
-not really a god but treated as one more of a patron saint that anything, more powerful than that though

The Lady
-patron saint but more powerful than that though

Ursin
-same thing as above...


Barbaric Gods:

-Orcs (Gork and Mork)
-Gobbos (Gork and Mork)
-Hobgoblin Hegemony (Worship of the Great Khans?)
-Ogre Lords (The Great Maw)

Yeah to all scrap horned rat from this...
 
Below ive redone the list again, and added a new category called 'Mortal Gods?' or something along those lines to represent all the mortalys who achieve godly power / reputaion (sigmar). any better?

Old Faiths- so this covers:
-The Old Faith --- The Empire, Bretonnia, Tilia, Estalia, Kislev, Norsca, Albion, Araby.
-Asuryanism / Cult of Asuryanism --- High Elves (as well as the other elves)
-Cult of Khaine --- Dark elves (as well as the other elves)
-Followers of Isha --- Wood Elves (as well as the other elves)
-Dwarven Pantheon (Morngrim/ Grungni/ Rukh)--- Dwarves
-The Old Ones --- Lizardmen, Amazonians
-Ormzad / Al-Alnon --- Araby, Khemri(probably Khemries religion before they died), Lhamia (lhamia is a break away civ from Khemri and therefore used to have the same religion as them)


Young Gods - and this covers:
-Old World Pantheon (Morr, Ulric, Rhia, Manann, Verena, Haendryk, Myrmidia, Luccan, Luccina etc) --- The Empire, Bretonnia, Tilia, Estalia, Kislev, Norsca
-Norse Pantheon (Thor, Odin etc)--- Norsca, possibly kislev?
-Children of Chaos (the offspring of the elder chaos gods?) ---Chaos, beastmen, Chaos Dwarves, Ind, Skaven
-Lady of the Lake --- Bretonnia
-Sigmar --- The Empire


Dark Children - and this one covers
-Cult of Nagash /Veneration of Nagash / Pogrency of Nagash? --- Khemri, Lhamia, Sylvania
-The Horned Rat --- Skaven
-Gods of the Dark Forge? (better name?) --- Chaos Dwarves
-Mark of Blood? Blood Cult? The Bloodless? --- Lhamia, Sylvania.

Chaos Cults
-and this one covers
-Nurgle --- Chaos, Beastmen
-Tzeentch ---Chaos, Beastmen
-Khorne---Chaos, Beastmen
-Slaanesh---Chaos, Beastmen, Dark Elves
-Chaos Undivided---Chaos, Beastmen, Chaos Dwarves
-Children of Chaos---Chaos, Beastmen, Hung, Kurgan, Norsca, Ind.


Gods of Law - and this one covers
-Cult of Celestial Dragon --- Cathay (Possibly nippon as well?)
-Jintoism --- Nippon (Possibly Cathay as well?)
-Ormazd / Al-Alnon --- Araby, Khemri
-Sigmar --- Empire


Saintly Worship? Followers of the Saints? Living Gods? Mortal Gods?
-Lady of the Lake --- Bretonnia
-Sigmar --- The Empire
-Ursin --- Kislev
-Cult of Celestial Dragon --- Cathay (they worship their emperors as gods)


Barbaric Gods
-Orcs (Gork and Mork)
-Gobbos (Gork and Mork)
-Hobgoblin Hegemony (Worship of the Great Khans?)
-Ogre Lords (The Great Maw)




just one thing: in Civ i think the term 'religion' is an umbrella term for ways of life, beliefs and value. it does not necessarily mean that it has to have a god or two for it to be a religion (look at buddhism).
also, i think the Old Ones is the worship of gods, as the slann follow thier teachongs to the spot (besides, none of the living slann have ever seen the old ones)
 
Old Faiths:

-The Old Faith: The Empire, Bretonnia, Tilea (had its own Pantheon, basis of curent young gods in the old wordl or so im lead to believe), Estalia (fell under Tilea's dominance), Kislev (had its own household spirit thing going, still does), Norsca (completly the same as Kislev they are the same peoples during the early time periods), Albion (still worship this), Araby (had its own Pantheon, and was only tribes... till after Nagash did his handiwork)

(i dislike this faith... would love to cut it, but Albion still holds to it all i can say to this is convert to Sigmar...) apart from my personal dislike i dont see the value of it... just assume it is the base religion (paganism whatever...) it doesnt matter.

-Cult of Asuryanism: High elves only
(elven gods are giving me kittens...) i agree with their being different gods for all the elven factions it makes sense... but i dont like it :lol:

Cult of Khaine: Dark Elves only (not for Wood elves...and high elves well no, Slannesh yes :P but this no)

-Followers of Isha: Wood elves only
This is a wood elf cult other elves worship Isha... but not to the degree that Wood elves do

-Dwarven Pantheon (Morngrim/ Grungni/ Rukh) Dwarves only

-The Old Ones --- Lizardmen, Amazonians Only (everyone is to ignorant to belive in them...)
-Ormzad Pantheon Araby, Khemri (Was Khemri's religion before they died... Lhamia (is not a breakaway civ Khemri is the biggest city state in that area it is only a city state... there are many many others these are just the most notable city states... Lhamia wasnt even that powerful pre vampires. It did worship the same gods)

Indic Pantheon (must go here):
It is the oldest human civ it has a 1000 gods... and i swear it does not worship chaos

(continued tommorow)
 
@ masada: please explain why you dont like the Old faiths.
old world human religions dont come under this heading, this is ment for religions that were founded before the human tribes became 'civilised' meaning only elven, dwarven and lizardmen and ancient human civs come under this heading but the Old Faith is the only Ancient Human religion, so its logical to have it here.

also, no religion should be for one civ only. all elves believe in isha, khaine and Asuryan, but they tend to worship one over the other (highelves believe in khaine but they dont dare speak of him, but what would happen if they became corrupted by the temptations he offers??? would there be two races of Dark elf????) this is a game of possibilities, so restricting religions to one civ is silly in my oppinion, we should at least limit it to groups of civs (eg the elven religions are avaliable to all even civs and human civs (there are several cults of khaine in the empire and Bretonia, also Khemri had some influence for mkhain before. Isha and Kurnous are very real to the Brettonians, so they stilltend to believe in them.) like i said, there are many possibilies that can happen.

What do you mean by House spirits for Kislev? do you mean like House elves from Harry potter or ghosts haunting the place or what??

i agree with the Indic Pantheon. But im definate that there are parts of ind which worship some of the lesser Chaos gods but they dont know it. there was a Chaos prophet i think who went and took the Chaos religion into ind, claiming that the chaos gods were the 'good' guys, and that Ind was worshiping 'false gods' of corse this caused a massive civcil war. i will try find the link that i read that from.

Spoiler :

Old Faiths-The Old Faith --- The Empire, Bretonnia, Tilia, Estalia, Kislev, Norsca, Albion, Araby.
-Asuryanism / Cult of Asuryanism --- High Elves (as well as the other elves)
-Cult of Khaine --- Dark elves (as well as the other elves)
-Followers of Isha --- Wood Elves (as well as the other elves)
-Dwarven Pantheon (Morngrim/ Grungni/ Rukh)--- Dwarves
-The Old Ones --- Lizardmen, Amazonians
-Ormzad / Al-Alnon --- Araby, Khemri(probably Khemries religion before they died), Lhamia (lhamia is a break away civ from Khemri and therefore used to have the same religion as them)
-The Indic Pantheon --- Ind


Young Gods

-Old World Pantheon (Morr, Ulric, Rhia, Manann, Verena, Haendryk, Myrmidia, Luccan, Luccina etc) --- The Empire, Bretonnia, Tilia, Estalia, Kislev, Norsca
-Norse Pantheon (Thor, Odin etc)--- Norsca, possibly kislev?
-Children of Chaos (the offspring of the elder chaos gods?) ---Chaos, beastmen, Chaos Dwarves, Ind, Skaven
-Lady of the Lake --- Bretonnia
-Sigmar --- The Empire


Dark Children [/B
-Cult of Nagash /Veneration of Nagash / Pogrency of Nagash? --- Khemri, Lhamia, Sylvania
-The Horned Rat --- Skaven
-Gods of the Dark Forge? (better name?) --- Chaos Dwarves
-Mark of Blood? Blood Cult? The Bloodless? --- Lhamia, Sylvania.

Chaos Cults

-Nurgle --- Chaos, Beastmen
-Tzeentch ---Chaos, Beastmen
-Khorne---Chaos, Beastmen
-Slaanesh---Chaos, Beastmen, Dark Elves
-Chaos Undivided---Chaos, Beastmen, Chaos Dwarves
-Children of Chaos---Chaos, Beastmen, Hung, Kurgan, Norsca, Ind.


Gods of Law

-Cult of Celestial Dragon --- Cathay (Possibly nippon as well?)
-Jintoism --- Nippon (Possibly Cathay as well?)
-Ormazd / Al-Alnon --- Araby, Khemri
-Sigmar --- Empire


Mortal Gods.
-Lady of the Lake --- Bretonnia
-Sigmar --- The Empire
-Ursin --- Kislev
-Cult of Celestial Dragon --- Cathay (they worship their emperors as gods)


Barbaric Gods

-Orcs (Gork and Mork)
-Gobbos (Gork and Mork)
-Hobgoblin Hegemony (Worship of the Great Khans?)
-Ogre Lords (The Great Maw)
 
You have a problem with Elves unfortunately

High Elves - worship primarily Asuryan and Isha.
There are others, but these are the primary two

Dark Elves - worship Khaine and Slaanesh (Cult of pleasure, infighting or no)

Wood Elves - worship Kurnous and Isha jointly.

Damn Elves! :D

Of course there should probably be a 'cult' for Hoeth/Lileath which would allow for things like swordmasters...

P.s.

I do agree with the 'possibilities' thing. There is no reason why in Civ 4, High elves can't worship chaos, say. My main concern is that

1) Religions didn't spread very fast
2) These gods probably aren't the sharing type.

Which is why I wanted organised religion and the ability to remove nonstate religions via a unit or something. This would work BEST if the current overarching system of racial gods was used.

Hmm... speaking of - in terms of tech tree, is it possible to move Elven Gods away from the Old one Gods? Currently the first person to old ones is probably going to be able to found Elven immediately after too...
 
Oh, one more error I picked up.

Anlec is NOT a High Elf city. It is a dark elf Citadel. Yes it is in Nagarythe (the shadowlands), but it is NOT High Elven. It was created by the dark elves by beaching two black arks. Then razed by the high elves, rebuilt, razed, etc. etc.

It should be a dark elf city, not a high elf city.
 
hey you're right, Anlec isnt highelf. thanks for that.

Well, your main concerns are very good concerns, and i share them. i think once we have the religions decided for good, were going to need to design them all, making each do something unique and different, but being balanced. then we can move on to the sub religions, diversifying them and blancing them. in those stages, we will need to decide the spreading rate of each religion, for instance, Chaos should be quite a fast spreading religion, whereas Old Faiths should be slower. to over come the slowness, we would just add cheaper priests, and for the fast ones, make the priests more expensive, or later.

I personally thinnk that we definately need inquisitor units like in FFH. We could give the Empire special Witch hunter units as a unique inquisitor. not to sure what he should do as of yet though, so well see.

Also, could you explain what you mean by this:
"Which is why I wanted organised religion and the ability to remove nonstate religions via a unit or something. This would work BEST if the current overarching system of racial gods was used."
i got a little lost here :)

At all, thanks for all the great feed back and ideas by the way.:D


EDIT: updated Post 3 with current religion ideas.
 
Back
Top Bottom