Warhammer Fantasy Mod 2.0

[Drift]

I've still yet to play the mod (Doesn't change the fact that I consider it to be the finest mod Civ3 knows) as all the time I have for my comp goes to my own modding project, but I became curious, what made you decide that the mod should have 20 civs? (21 with Slann) I'm asking because when looking at them, I find most of them to be intriguing and polished while some are somewhat plain with no custom leaderheads and rather basic medieval style unit lines. Names that come to mind are Albion, Tilea and Bretonnia.

I know you are have mentioned doing more leaderheads, but even with a custom leaderhead, I don't find it probable that I would choose them over the other more interesting civs or being as excited about playing against them than say Chaos, Khemri, Reikland, Orcs, Goblins, Ulthuan, Naggaroth, Dwarves, Loren, Sylvania...

And while I'm at it, I want to thank you for your creation that has made my current project possible. I couldn't have even thought of the mod without your units and WH-mod has been a great inspiration. Like I said, the best mod in the business. (Fear not, I'm not on a path of plagiarism - fantasy yes, wh-mod look-a-like no)

 

[embryodead]

@Drift
They were not made up just to fill some gaps, these are kingdoms/nations of Warhammer, which in turn is a mirror-world of our world, so Bretonnia represents something between Normans and Franks, The Empire is equivalent of Holy Roman Empire and so on. Tilea and Estalia (you may guess what they mirror) are indeed minor powers in Warhammer world, so they are in game - generic kingdoms and city-states, typically medieval, mostly with mercenary armies. If I had more 3d skills and time, I could have 31 civs. Well, that's the plan .

You're right that some civs are less interesting than other and people will less likely play them. Nothing wrong with that I think, they make good opponents... also if someone collects Bretonnia army for example, believe this will be the first choice... Moreover, I don't enjoy games with small number of civs at all. I prefer to play with 24 civs of which 8 are less polished, than with 16.

In 2.0 there will be 25 civs actually. Slann and Amazons are inarguably unique. Westerland is one of those generic medieval civs, though it gets its own knighly order and unique ships. Ind isn't finished yet, though it has some unique units too. Then Ungols are barbarians having Kinboat's and upcoming DonPedro's Mongol units as its core.

Older factions receive some new unique stuff ie. Albion gets Giants. Tech-tree has now civ-specific branches, so that some groups get access to specific items. All oldworlders get knightly and monastic orders, cathedrals; far east civs get own religious monuments, palaces and so on... I added a lot of civilopedia information on each faction, so hopefully they will appear less plain now, and enable to learn more about Warhammer world.

BTW I recognize your new avatar Don't remember the original name, but I used this pic most of the time.

 

[Drift]

Originally posted by embryodead
@Drift
They were not made up just to fill some gaps, these are kingdoms/nations of Warhammer, which in turn is a mirror-world of our world, so Bretonnia represents something between Normans and Franks, The Empire is equivalent of Holy Roman Empire and so on.

I didn't actually think they were made up. I was just curious about why they were included.

Moreover, I don't enjoy games with small number of civs at all. I prefer to play with 24 civs of which 8 are less polished, than with 16.

I guess this is the reason behind this mild disagreement. Two different philosophies. I like small games and don't have a need for 20 civs as I'll never see all of them in a same game. I believe I would hand pick my opponents for a small WH game - wouldn't want the dice to put me against mostly small powers with less character.

But I understand your point of view clearly. And judging from the popularity of huge maps, lots of civs is welcomed by most people.

Changes planned for 2.0 sound really nice. Hereby I decide to make time for playing the mod - I can't be that busy.

BTW I recognize your new avatar Don't remember the original name, but I used this pic most of the time.

Well, I changed my avatar to give people a subtle hint of things to come. Civ3 engine however restricts me quite badly, so it's more of a source of inspiration than a model for a remake. But I'll stop threadjacking now - I'll make a proper preview thread when I have things much better organised than now. (BTW, his name is Rjak. )

 

[Cabbit]

First off, dowloaded your mod and loved it,

2nd, about the map WH-World 140, is it deliberate that Ulthuan has no way to irrigate? i. e. no pre-placed irrigation, no rivers

Great mod! (not a WH fan, just love a good fantasy mod)

 

[embryodead]

@Cabbit
Yes that's intentional about Ulthuan, but notice they have ancient forests giving +2 Food. Can you imagine a high elf working in a field???

 

[Janco]

Well it is true that High Elves don't use their physical abilities in farming anymore. They use their magical abilities for it. So they grow their crops by using spells. Mayby there could be somekind of chance to farm, because there is so much grassland in Ulthuan. High elves don't grow without ability to farm.

 

[tjedge1]

You suggesting that mages should terraform?

That is an idea for my mod at least. The attack animation for terraforming.

 

[jegron]

Btw., is there a way to add additional terrain types? I modified Jungles as special forests, but if there is a way to add an additional terrain, I would prefer that.

Another question: If a wonder gives a free improvement in town (like the hoover dam in normal civ), that would replace other buildings, what happens to those buildings and to buildings that have those as prerequisite? I plan a high temple for several religions that gives a temple of that kind in each city. Different temples replace eachother like normal plants. But I'm not sure how civ does that, and what happens, if I have two wonders that give buildings that replace eachother.

Jegron

Originally posted by Isembard


I corrected that specially for my map, so that Loren could have both the nicer graphics of the forest and no boundaries to their growth/economical development...

 

[embryodead]

Originally posted by Janco
Well it is true that High Elves don't use their physical abilities in farming anymore. They use their magical abilities for it. So they grow their crops by using spells. Mayby there could be somekind of chance to farm, because there is so much grassland in Ulthuan. High elves don't grow without ability to farm.

This is a very interesting idea, I will think about it for sure. However, I never disabled terraforming for elves, they can do it well now - It's just the world map that has Ulthuan without possibility to irrigate. Maybe something like that:
- disabled irrigation for elven workers
- give elven mage lords ability to irrigate and a tech to irrigate without fresh water.
This way elves would be a bit crippled at the beginning, but with advantage later - both in Ulthuan and on random maps there are often areas with no fresh water, not too fertile without powerful magic to bring water in. I'm not sure if I'll be able to use another ERA_NONE tech though.

 

[Isembard]

Just a question aobut version 2.0 : will you be using the "flavors" for tech trees ?

And Jegron, althoughi'm not a very good modder, with the C3C landmark terrains, if you put image files for those, and then edit the stats for the landmark terrains through the editor, you can add new terrains, although some of their properties must stay the same from the non-landmark terrain...

 

[embryodead]

@jergon
Yes you can add new terrain but only for scenarios (it doesn't appear on random maps). Use landmark terrain for that - it can have different stats and graphics. To look how it is done, see WH-Mod's Ancient Forest or Snow-covered hills. Stats are edited under Terrain tab, graphics are put in WH-Mod/Art/Terrain folder, and start with LM* prefix.

As for your temples problem, I can't help you, you must simply do it and see how it works.

@Isembard - generally, no - flavors are quite lame - they only steer AI, but do not affect human player at all (ie. see Age of Discovery conquest in which european AI properly doesn't care for mesoamerican techs, but you can discover both). I'm using civ-specific techs which work both for AI and the player. I'll use flavors for a bit of AI variation, mostly for buildings, but that's all.
EDIT: To show an example - necromancy/vampirism is available only to khemri and sylvania, knighly orders and architecture - only to old world civs, slavery only to despotic, monotheism only to araby etc.

 

[Dragonlord]

Originally posted by Drift

Well, I changed my avatar to give people a subtle hint of things to come. Civ3 engine however restricts me quite badly, so it's more of a source of inspiration than a model for a remake. But I'll stop threadjacking now - I'll make a proper preview thread when I have things much better organised than now. (BTW, his name is Rjak. )

Yeaaaahhhh!!! Is someone finally making a mod of Master of Magic? [dance]

You can be sure of one fan here!

I just wish some game company would finally bring out a remake of my second favorite game - right after Civ (of course).

 

[Isembard]

Ok, i was just wondering, since flavors could determine some AI things that can be useful, but if you can reach AI unique techs without too much hassle, that's good

 

[drzoidberg]

I'm planning to learn how to animate units the next few days and I've already mastered the basics. Embroyodead, is there any units you need making. I might as well work on something actually usefull and the Warhammer MOD I think is by far the best one around.
-Tom

 

[tjedge1]

Speaking of units, I was wondering if it is possible to convert graphix from Neverwinter Nights to get more fantasy units or is that too different a format? There are tons of possible fantasy units there for any fantasy setting.

 

[embryodead]

@drzoidberg
Watch out, most of us learned than in months What program do you use? ie. do you want to make humanoid units or model machines, ships and such? That's what I'm lacking most and can't do myself:
- Dwarven Gyrocopter
- Empire Steam Tank
- Bombard Cannon (not crucial though, it would replace AoK Bombard)
- Elven Bolt Throwers
- Halfling Hot Pot
- Black Ark and some Man-o-War vessels

As for humanoid and other units... some examples: light amazon rider (bow or spear), slavic-looking horse archer, dwarven bowman/crossbowman, some heavy-armored dwarf, dryads, high elven swordmaster, witch elf, black guard, phoenix guard, terradon, saurus on cold one, zombie/skeletal dragon, necrarch, wraith, mummy, carrion, bone giant, skeletal cavalry, daemons (bloodletter, flesh hound, plaguebearer, daemonette, nurgling, horrors, screamers, flamers, great unclean one, keeper of secrets, lord of change), chaos marauder, chaos warlock, chaos warhound, minotaur, centigor, chaos dwarves (infantry, armored infantry, blunderbuss), bull centaur, hydra, manticore, wyvern, harpy, squig, warrior-priest, barbarian shaman. That's all for now, though I can produce more requests any time I can provide pictures of all units mentioned.

@tjedge1
AFAIK Neverwinter Nights are 3D, so that's completly different.

 

[drzoidberg]

The program I want to learn is 3d studio max, but I'll use what-ever does the trick. Anything in particular recommend other than whats mentioned in the tutorials of this forum?

I have a fair knowledge of the Warhammer world since I used to collect and paint the figures. Orcs being my favorite but that seems covered in the MOD. I'll just have a look at pictures and do which one inspires me the most. I'm supposed to have the two chaos-books somewhere in a attic somwhere.

It would be nice to do the Great Unclean One. One interesting thing would to have the greater deamons apear as a result of building a small wonder, (temple?). Since they´ll only have one at a time it would make it possible to give them the superpowers befitting a greater demon.
-Tom

 

[drzoidberg]

>- Dwarven Gyrocopter

There is a Dwrven Gyrocopter in Warcraft 3. It had a kick ass modell and a a great sound. Shouldn't be to hard to get hold of a picture of. It has roughly the same size as it should be in civ and if you've got a picture of every direction I imagine it shouldn't be impossible to copy it. And the sound is free, There is a great .wav waiting to be stolen.
-Tom

 

[embryodead]

Sorry but Blizzard is MAD about their intellectual property. While some companies won't mind when players just do non-commercial modding, others are tracking every little thing that could have been "stolen" and get to court if neccessary (a case of it was mentioned on CFC already when someone wanted to do a Warcraft 3 mod). I don't want to risk the loss of wh-mod. Also, capturing stuff from 3D game is a horrible task.
As for 3d program I can't really recommend anything else than Poser. I know that if you can do modelling in 3DS, it's a great combo with Poser, ie. Kinboat uses this.

 

[drzoidberg]

Originally posted by embryodead
Sorry but Blizzard is MAD about their intellectual property. While some companies won't mind when players just do non-commercial modding, others are tracking every little thing that could have been "stolen" and get to court if neccessary (a case of it was mentioned on CFC already when someone wanted to do a Warcraft 3 mod). I don't want to risk the loss of wh-mod. Also, capturing stuff from 3D game is a horrible task.
As for 3d program I can't really recommend anything else than Poser. I know that if you can do modelling in 3DS, it's a great combo with Poser, ie. Kinboat uses this.

Ok, never mind stealing the sound. But the modell was stolen in the first place from Games Workshop. Blizzard is not in a position to say much about it. Legally it´s probably GW's intellectual property anyway. For some reason I remember that the original idea for the Gyrocopter is GW's Ian Livingstone.
-Tom