Warhammer Fantasy Mod 2.0

[Vanadorn]

Leave it alone. Keep the resource screen clearer. There is an old saying that too much is not always a good thing. Keep it tight and the game play will remain fantastic.

Too many resources and you run into the Dwarf only coal and iron clad unit problem, or the goblins (and not sylvania) wolf and wolf unit only problem.

BTW - when and where did you see the lack o' mithril in both TSR and GW? Is it an article, newsclipping, factoid? Just curious.

Thanks again for the mod and the continuing work.

 

[drzoidberg]

Originally posted by embryodead
Further on Gromril
I've just read there's really no Mithril in Warhammer because at some point, ICE (I guess) ordered both TSR and GW to remove this name from their games. Gromril simply replaced Mithril.
Now, I have freed one slot for a strategic resource and have a dilemma. What will be the best option:
- don't place anything there, so that the resource screen becomes clearer
- make Gromril a strategic resource; still, because of lack of more space in the tech tree, I will be able to add only one Gromril-equipped Dwarf, so it doesn't really make much sense.
- add Quarry resource, needed for obvious stuff like walls, keeps, castles, some wonders.

Or everytime after a scientific advance the dwarves now get a new unit you instead include two new units. One with, (better defensive value) and one without gromril both using the same graphics. Then you don't need it as a scientific advance and they still can get on without it.

Quarry resource makes no sense what so ever.

 

[embryodead]

@Vanadorn
There's an article on Strike-to-Stun but I've read it first on warhammer.net forums, where they also mentioned that TSR had to change their name to "Mithral"

@drzoidberg
This is the idea I was speaking about it... but there are only three dwarven foot units after discovery of Gromril and:
High Guard: this one could be added with Gromril armour
Longbeard: He comes with Feudalism which is has full tech box already (yes, I meant that, not "place for a new tech")
Slayer: I don't think Gromril is apt for this unit...
So that's a total of 1 units, 2 at best, in the whole game... I'm back to thinking Gromril is represented better by simple bonus resource, which on World Map is available only to dwarfs anyway.

BTW, there will be a spaceship victory in 2.0. I scrapped all chaos-specific and good-specific ideas and went for something simple, available for all factions: the spacerace is replaced by a quest to find 10+ worlds' most powerful artifacts. This is the list of candidates; if you know something that should be here, tell me: Laihtendrung, The Crown of Domination, The Eye of Sheerian, The Claw of Nagash (or the Book of), The Slayer of Kings, The Silver Seal, The Hammer of Sigmar, Doomfire Ring, The Horn of Urgok, Dragon Blade, The Sword of Teclis, Sunfang. I especially need something unusual that could come with techs such as Nature Lore, Alchemy or Astronomy. I've taken items from WFB, didn't look to WFRP resources yet.

 

[Cabbit]

I would vote for having Quarry as a strategic Resource, or leaving the slot blank.

Or everytime after a scientific advance the dwarves now get a new unit you instead include two new units. One with, (better defensive value) and one without gromril both using the same graphics. Then you don't need it as a scientific advance and they still can get on without it

I think things are cluttered enough with ?300? units in the game, including culture-specific doubles of units like the peasant. (Might it make sense to rename these, just something along the lines of "E-Peasant" "OW-Peasant", where E stands for Eastern peasant and OW stands for Old World peasant... it would eliminate some confusion if you are pre-placing units on a map)

On an unrelated note, would anybody be interested in having completely made up, i. e. having nothing to do with the official warhammer world, maps/scenarios?

 

[Drift]

Originally posted by embryodead
the spacerace is replaced by a quest to find 10+ worlds' most powerful artifacts.

Good idea. Only problem that I can see is that it may feel somewhat weird for the civs to build these artifacts and also the fact that all factions can "find" all artifacts. But all it requires is a little bit of imagination from the player's part.

I haven't decided yet whether I include spacerace to Master of Myrror. There would be a perfect candidate, Spell of Mastery, but I haven't made up my mind on whether it should have only one or several "parts". Multiple parts could be spell's ingredients in this case. More parts feels better since it tests players empire's overall production capabilities, not just those of one city. The more I think of it, I believe I'll go with multiple parts.

 

[mrtn]

Where quarries are used (the different conquests) I think it works. So go for that.
The space race idea seems good.

 

[Isembard]

I ditto the idea to add quarries...I think like mrtn it works quite well in the conquests, although it can sometimes be annoying if you don't have any close to you For the gromril, having better dwarfen units thanks to gromril (mostly better defense) would be good, even if it only concerned longbeards and High Guards (although thunderers also wear some pretty heavy armour, could be gromril). If its too comlicated, though, you could have longbeards, for example, require gromril...

For the artefacts, do you want those to be lost/hidden/hard to find ? The Hammer of sigmar, i believe, is already in good hands It could perhaps be possible to find one of the most outstanding magical objects for each of the most important factions, rather.

ie : - Empire : Hammer of Sigmar
- Bretonnia : The Grail (?)
- Dwarfs : Dammaz Kron (Book of Grudges)/ Axe of Grimnir
- Khemri/Undead : Claw of Nagash
- High Elves : Sword of Teclis
- Chaos : The Eye of Sheerian

I can't really think of anything else for the moment withotu going to my books to look... There would be a greenskin item, a lizardman one perhaps, dark elf, a kislevite one too perhaps ? I don't exactly remember all the civs you're going to be adding

One last question, too : will you be adding more than the 3 governments than those present in the previous version ? Such things as imperialism (Reikland, Karaz Ankor) or something like tribal council (Albion ?) could add a bit more flavor...

 

[embryodead]

Originally posted by Cabbit
On an unrelated note, would anybody be interested in having completely made up, i. e. having nothing to do with the official warhammer world, maps/scenarios?

Yes, of course. Yoda and Owain already put up two nice maps. I plan a lot of such maps, mostly semi-random, with a bit of manual editing, pre-placed starting locations, landmarks etc. Also, if you want to do a scenario, you can leave warhammer stuff, or change whatever you want, ie. name of civs, cities, resources etc.

Originally posted by Drift
Good idea. Only problem that I can see is that it may feel somewhat weird for the civs to build these artifacts and also the fact that all factions can "find" all artifacts. But all it requires is a little bit of imagination from the player's part.

Well I got an explanation. The first person to build an artifact finds it. The next steals the whole hoard and so on, so that the first person to "build" all, is the best thief

Spell of Mastery was kinda stupid in MoM. It always ended my games when I had the most fun, big empire and stuff, preparing for major war and then, boom. Here, however, it's better to include some spacerace rather than not. Players can always turn it off.

Quarries
Yes, whatever - can be a Quarry like in C3C or simply Stone. The only problem I have is that it must be abundant resource, with ratio of say 180, and it will eat up space for other resources. Moreover, I don't really like resources which are so abundant that everyone will have access to them anyway... For now, slot is empty, but there's always a possiblity of adding this during beta.

@Isembard
It's good idea, actually I believe that it is possible to have civ(group)-specific spaceship parts, only that their pictures at SS screen must be the same. The Grail is a must of course. I generally mean the most powerful artifacts, maybe also the most recognizable. Whether they are hidden or already in good hands that doesn't really matter, since the mod doesn't take place in any particular period.


As for the governments, I explained already, that I do not plan adding more, because the whole hate-love system depends on it. Thanks to only three, fixed governments, you have humans, elves and dwarfs hating chaos and orcs etc. I think that relationships are much more important than goverments, especially that they do not really offer much variety besides the name. Moreover, governments steer access to some group-specific concepts like slavery, sacrifices, or good/evil wonders (ie. all Monarchic civs are considered "good", so they can build "Witch Hunt" wonder).

 

[Mr. Do]

Quarry is an interesting resource, no more useless than timber as a strategic resource IMHO, but it's by no means essential and I think it'd probably bea good idea to leave some space on the resouce screen.

Regarding the Chaos gods- I don't think it is needed to go to such lengths as making a different civ for each god. As an article in the latest White Dwarf explains, the North of the Old World is full of many different Barbarian tribes collectively known as the Kurgan (led by Crom the Conquerer). Each different tribe worships its own God, and they're not all the traditional Chaos Gods. The Kul worship many Gods, the Draghar worship Arhkar (Clearly just a pseudonym for Khorne) and the Iron Wolves (perhaps) worship somewhere between a wolf-god and Tzeentch.

Each Chaos city in the game in my eyes would most likely represent a single tribe, and so the God worshipped therein is unimportant. If there is any divergence to be made with Chaos, I'd split the factions into the Kurgan tribes and the Beasts of Chaos, if that.

Having got all that from one article of "Olde Weirde's Incunabulum", maybe there should be a new Imperial wonder based around it, perhaps for a tech-boost for the Monarchy-styled governments? Of course that's only worth considering if there are sufficient new techs in the Imperial Age...

 

[embryodead]

Good idea Mr. Do. Actually there are insufficient new techs in Imperial Age, but that's if there's a reason to add them, like this wonder, I'll do that. Give me ideas for tech name Exploration, World Lore? Alternatively it could be available with Cartography which comes in 3rd era and is empty now (it provides Map Trading only) or even Education. But 4th eras need this stuff more...

As I don't buy WD no more, maybe you could browse your copies for some names and other stuff worth mentioning, like city names that are not in the mod and legendary artifacts that are not in WFB?

 

[Cabbit]

I'm still agianst using Gromnil as a strategic resource for Dwarf units, because there is already a stategic resource, coal, that is used mainly by the dwarves, though I think any Monarchy civ-can build Ironworks, only dwarves build Ironclads. I'd say leave a strategic resource slot blank, or use it for something else.

 

[embryodead]

Coal was required to build Ironclad and Ironworks (available for all). This was still not too much, so I removed Pigs (I won't miss them ) and placed Coal as a bonus resource instead. That's why I have free strategic slot, but yes, I don't think Gromril is any better than coal in this matter. For coal, well after all, you can burn a lot of wood instead, plenty of it lying around, as long as elves don't see

 

[mrtn]

Ditching coal sounds good, after all, as you said, you can always burn trees, flowers or pigs instead.

Will you decrease the number of units needing iron, and is it a chance you'll get below that magic number that screws up the civilopedia? BTW, what is the magic number? I'd like to keep my eyes open so I don't emulate your mistakes.

The first elf units shouldn't require iron (has been discussed already, I know), and maybe some of the second level horse units don't need it?
If you still want the units to require two resources the horse archer units could always require horses and timber (didn't you know you need a whole tree trunk to make a bow? ). Game play versus realism, and all that...

 

[OTROS]

To Embryodead, i downloaded your mod a couple of days, i have started a few games but havent played beyond the First Age yet, i think your mod is really good both in the way it looks and in the feel of the game overall, the only problem i have with your mod is that i have no time left for C3C at the moment. One thing i would like to mention is that allthough i choose a standard size map with 7 random tribes, in your mod the AI allways has more than 7 in my latest game i have allready found 12 is this intended or am i doing something wrong.

Thankyou for your mod and any help you can send my way

 

[embryodead]

@mrtn
Are you kidding? The magic number seems to be 34, it's impossible to stick to that, even if you use only 1 unit per animation. I have more than 80 iron-based units, I would have to dump more than half My advice: just give it up, it doesn't really cause serious problem, not even a crash, just annoying popup (and only once, you wouldn't click on Iron icon again, would you? ). Horse Archers never required Iron, only horses, and yes, I already removed Iron requirement basic elven units, as well as added many non-Iron infantry guys, like corsairs, mercenaries. Nonetheless, it's still more than 80. Just count basic pikemen, infantry and knights from BeBro... and you are above 34 already.
BTW the popup now appears also with Horses but it's only 3 above the limit.

@OTROS
Thank you
Yes the number of civs is intended. The maps are set to be a bit more crowded than normal, they're also a bit bigger (actually just like vanilla civ3 ie. 140x140 instead of 130x130). You can see the number of AI civs on the player setup screen to the left. For a standard size map they're 11 slots. If you prefer to play with 7, just disable 4 of them (by choosing "NONE" option).

 

[Mr. Do]

I was pleased that there can be that many Civs when I played a standard map... it means you can have all of the major players plus one extra random Civ :thumbup:

I would suggest to have Olde Weirde's Incu...(Okay I'm not going to attempt to spell it without WD near me) wonder available to build with a new printing press advance. I only have the latest WD issue, but I should be able to look through my older issues this weekend sometime... although for a better idea of what I'm looking for (Which civs need new cities/ leaders added etc.) I'd like to see the Beta version when it's ready, if possible?

 

[embryodead]

@Mr. Do
Printing Press is a good idea, thanks. As for the stuff I'm looking - any cities you find that are not in the mod yet are good. If something needs more names than the others, that would be all oriental, greenskin and wood elven civs. But generally, if you find any idea that could go in the mod, like this Olde Weirde's..., that would be cool.

 

[mrtn]

Would it be possible to get you to remove citynames? I'm specifically thinking of the Norsca town "Stromstad", which in reality is a Swedish town, most known for all the Norwegians who go there to buy not-as-expensive-as-Norwegian alcohol.
It's like having an Estalian city called Costa del Sol...

 

[Malakai]

Hello !!!
Your WH MOD is great.
I`ve been playing Warhammer Fantasy Battle for 9 years. Dwarfs are my favourite race.
I`ve got some ideas about the changes concerning this race:
1. Ironbreaker should be the unit you want to add to the game which will use the Gromril strategic resource because in WFB ironbreakers use the Gromril`s armour which saves them better than heavy armour. Ironbreakers are the best footmen in the Old World.
2. The change of the unit`s name from Highguards to Longbeards because the Dwarf Army doesn`t have the Highguards.
3. I think that very important for dwarfs is Gyrocopter to increase the mobility of their army.

thx & take care.

 

[Mr. Do]

Haha Malakia, there's loads of units that I'm sure people think are essential (My personal "most-wanted" is the Ushbati for Khemri, but I have no idea why), but embryodead will need more people to make the units if we're ever gonna see them in the game.

Yeah I thought that's what you want- I recall there's definitely one article about a Cathay excursion to the African-style continent, that'll definitely contain some useful info, even if it's just the name of the general in charge; there's also one on the Khemri (When they were alive that is) and King Rahmotep, among many others I'll look for.

Extra idea concerning Chaos- in the editor there's a flag for city improvements saying "Replaces all Impr. with this Flag Checked" (unused in the mod so far); since you're making Chaos highly cultural, you could have five Chaos shrines, one for each God (plus one for Chaos Undivided) and then each Chaos city would be able to build a single type of cultural shrine per city, to give the city an allegience to a specific god. Hopefully the AI (Or a player who wouldn't bother reading the civilopedia entry) wouldn't keep building each different shrine and replacing the original, wasting countless shields, but then it doesn't happen with power plants that use this effect. This could be expanded on in the future if anyone ever makes daemon units, as the shrine could be used as a pre-requisite for individual expensive summoning improvements that summon unbuildable daemonic units for a certain god every few turns. May be something for a far-off version...