Warhammer Fantasy Mod 2.0

[Nibble]

BTW I checked the properties of my ..CIV3PTW\Scenarios\WH-Mod folder and found that the Size on disk is 193 MB.

 

[Nibble]

BTW I checked the properties of my ..CIV3PTW\Scenarios\WH-Mod folder and found that the Size on disk is 193 MB.

 

[Isembard]

Originally posted by embryodead


Sure, no problem, though I plan to make few maps myself (I need old world map for "Rise of the Empire" scenario), unless you satisfy my needs in 100% Watch out for accuracy - the more accurate you get, the less playabale the map becomes in civ3, there must a balance. In such scenario Border Princes might be actually several npc 1-city civs - this would represent lack of organisation and constant wars, until one of them conquers all neighbors

I evntually did think of making them all separate states, but thought it might make for too much leaderhead finding... I might, though...

And i'll be careful with detail Already, to rise up to an idea that had been talked about before, i made landmark mountains and landmark hills to help dwarven growth which is otherwise totally stopped in the mountains, providing a little food...

 

[embryodead]

@Nibble
as your expriences as exactly opposite of those from wurkwurk, I'm more and more confused now but I'm happy that it works now.
I guess you have 193 MB because of different file system (my "size on disk" is 164 MB. Since there are almost 2000 small files, file systems using large clusters, like FAT16, need more space).

 

[Nibble]

Embryo, I think the main difference is that my OS is XP home. But as long as the mod works, I don't care how much (or little) disk space it takes up.

 

[Vanadorn]

BTW - are you going to reduce the skeletal warriors back to 3.2.1 or adjust their shield cost on the next version (2.0)? Was mentioned back 2 pages or so.
Just curious.

 

[Lachlan]

can you make unique self extractor for the full mod 2.0 ?

My 512 Kb is not afraid

 

[embryodead]

@Vanadorn
Right now in 2.0 Skeletal Minions cost 1 shield and are 7.4.1 (which is something like (3,5).2.1 comparing to old rules), but also they come much later than Knights/Infantry. This may change after testing is done, but I'm not so happy to resign from the ability to turn a whole conquered city into skeletal minions in several turns. This is exactly what Nagash did in Warhammer, he turned the whole Nehekhara (equiv. of Egypt) into his army with one spell. Then he replaced all water from irrigation with blood and created even more

@Lachlan
Yes, it will be available as update to any old version and as full installer too (around 220 MB I guess).

 

[Vanadorn]

Nagash and Nurgle, 2 very pissed off and determined evil dudes.

Happy to see any reduction of the Skeletons. Very "broken" as they were. Also, will your web site be asjusted to represent the new changes in the units costs and stats? If so when?

Glad to see the work being done on a fine mod.

 

[Gabryel Karolin]

Downloaded the full version and the conquest update and installed it all, but it wont work, appearatly somthing called Carl-Franz_all.pcx is missing . Dunno what I did wrong really, help please?

That file isnt even on my comp so somethings wrong obviously.

 

[embryodead]

@Gabryel Karolin
The full version installer seems to be corrupted after upload to new server. I just removed the link. I'm sorry, you have to download the mod again using CFC links (it's divided into 2 files but it's the same).

 

[Lachlan]

Arghh i'm just downloading it !!!

 

[embryodead]

Sorry :/ I'm also downloading it to check it (in fact I don't have a broadband myself - uploading/downloading my own mod takes 3-4 hours...), though that annoucement was neccessary since all people who downloaded it in the last few days had the same problems of missing files.

EDIT: I downloaded the full installer and it worked without problems, all files were present. Nevertheless there were reports of files missing for at least three people now, I do not know what is behind this mystery. Anyway, downloading the mod in 2-piece version helped in all cases.

 

[Gabryel Karolin]

I myself are lucky enough to have broadband, however the package that doesnt contain the leaerheads wont unzip for me, the whole program freezes . You dont have an ordinary zip-file somewhere I suppose?

EDIT: Never mind, worked great, just very slooow.

Looks awesome so far .

 

[jegron]

Hello Embryodead,

I tested a few more games over christmas, and have some more points:

1) kings, princesses and leaders shouldn't require support. I did a mass regicide game, and some of my kings died during the first turns as I ran out of money.

2) playing as Sylvania, I saw that vampires are made obselete by vampire lords. I don't think this is a good idea. What are they lord of if I cannot produce more vampires? Only those they create?

3) AI cannot handle pirate ships, probably they should be removed. AI stacks those pirate ships with Caravels so they are better defended, which makes them pretty useless. And this was at demigod level, so it isn't a matter of low levels only.

4) Norse are pretty weak, their defensive unit (norse dwarves) comes very late, and they don't have cavalry, in the games I played they were pretty fast overrun by Kislev.

5) I experimented a bit with values for king units, and I was quite happy with some tough units. As count Vlad looks like a vampire lord, I gave him the stats of a vampire lord. All other kings are about the same strength, elves are very good bowmen and the unit stats range from about 5-4-2 to 6-8-2 accodring to their special skills.
I gave all kings enslaving skill, some "draft" enemies into pikemen, some create workers, and the like. I can give you the full stats once they are balanced enough.

6) I tried some things I want for my mod, but not everything worked as designed. I gave leaders some good defensive combat skills to have an alternative for speeding production and building armies, however you can only have one leader at the same time. I currently think about nobles, thus making leaders upgrade to race specific personality units. However I don't know how to prevent those units from being built, unless I give them the king trait, which would mean you can get additional king units in regicide games.
I also tried different stats for the flag unit, but it won't work in any way. I thought of a movable "flag", thus a princess which would run away to avoid capture, but a flag unit needs to be immobile and requires escort or no victory points will be scored.

7) speaking of victory points, your requirements are very low. If I do a regicide game, about half the kings are still alive when I reach the limit.
I doubled the points and tried a mass regicide game, and they still too low, there are currently 11 factions alive and I'm very close to the limit, some more kislev winged lancers, and the game will be over.

8) speaking of winged lancers, as I built an empire army, they could be hired as allies, they were fast but weak cavalry units. I think they are currently too god for this, I probably would remove 1 point of defense and add it to the horse archers instead. Kislev AI is using them to defend infantry, which shouldn't be their purpose.

9) finally one last thing: I don't understand the way spells work: I attack a 4/6 horse archer with a gaseous cloud, and as soon as the attack animation is over, the unit heals to 5/6, before it takes the damage. I reloaded several times, and the healing occured each time. Can you tell me why?

10) ok, I said finally, but one more think in mind: for some kind of pollution spell, you could use a nuke with an attack value of 1. That way it cannot do much damage but should still do pollution.

11) one more, pollution isn't shown in the city screen as it is in a normal game. Thus I was caught by surprise when my cities were producing pollution as I had no workers around.

12) If you have more than 8 strategic ressources in the city screen, they won't be displayed anymore. Is it possible to change camels, wolves and raptors to bonus ressources so the rest will be displayed correctly, or won't they be allowd as a prerey in that case? Elefants are luxuries and are still prerequisites, I don't know if this would work with bonus ressouces, too.

So far, I'm pretty addicted at the moment...

Jegron

 

[embryodead]

Originally posted by jegron
1) kings, princesses and leaders shouldn't require support. I did a mass regicide game, and some of my kings died during the first turns as I ran out of money.

Yes, well call it a bug - it's only in 1.1 version for C3C. I missed the fact that when converting the mod to C3C, the editor didn't transfer this setting at all, that's why kings require support, even demons do, whereas in PTW versions they didn't. note to mrtn: now we know the reason why Skeletal Minions had upkeep cost in your game and I couldn't reproduce it here - in 1.1 they are simply set so in the editor...

2) playing as Sylvania, I saw that vampires are made obselete by vampire lords. I don't think this is a good idea. What are they lord of if I cannot produce more vampires? Only those they create?

I don't see a problem here. You get more powerful vampires and can upgrade the old ones. Then, you still have enslave. When I turn off upgrades, people are complaining that they can't upgrade

3) AI cannot handle pirate ships, probably they should be removed. AI stacks those pirate ships with Caravels so they are better defended, which makes them pretty useless. And this was at demigod level, so it isn't a matter of low levels only.

Same as in Civ3, and they didn't remove it. I won't do it either. Tell Firaxis to fix the damn AI, which is so dumb that it can't use privateers but also air/ground transports or simple artillery. In C3C they even made barbarians wimps that are afraid to attack even unprotected city when they are 1 square from it!

4) Norse are pretty weak, their defensive unit (norse dwarves) comes very late, and they don't have cavalry, in the games I played they were pretty fast overrun by Kislev.

Norsca gets fast ships and amphibious units. As human player you can lead them well, while AI rating really depends more on starting terrain than anything else. Don't take WH-World map as a base for any judging, the map is totally unfair, because it reflects the warhammer world in which Kislev is an advanced empire whereas norsemen are primitive barbarians.
Also the balance in WH-Mod, or rather lack of it, isn't a secret. Some civs are inferior by design, some have unusual unit line and require unique style of play (ie. the dwarves).
In 2.0 version the tech tree looks different so norse berserkers come later and are more powerful, that's small change at least.

5) I experimented a bit with values for king units, and I was quite happy with some tough units. As count Vlad looks like a vampire lord, I gave him the stats of a vampire lord. All other kings are about the same strength, elves are very good bowmen and the unit stats range from about 5-4-2 to 6-8-2 accodring to their special skills.
I gave all kings enslaving skill, some "draft" enemies into pikemen, some create workers, and the like. I can give you the full stats once they are balanced enough.

Thanks though as you know 2.0 version is in production, with new stats, factions etc. so I wouldn't really have any use from 1.1 kings. "Hero" kings are planned, but they will be upgradable to follow the advancement in military.

6) I tried some things I want for my mod, but not everything worked as designed. I gave leaders some good defensive combat skills to have an alternative for speeding production and building armies, however you can only have one leader at the same time. I currently think about nobles, thus making leaders upgrade to race specific personality units. However I don't know how to prevent those units from being built, unless I give them the king trait, which would mean you can get additional king units in regicide games.
I also tried different stats for the flag unit, but it won't work in any way. I thought of a movable "flag", thus a princess which would run away to avoid capture, but a flag unit needs to be immobile and requires escort or no victory points will be scored.

Leaders - yes, you are correct, the limitation of one leader for all civs is pretty irritating from modder's point of view and I also don't see a way to upgrade them further (unless to kings). I will remain with the usual use of leaders, however I added some wonder-produced leaders ie. Grand Cathedral of Sigmar produces Grand Theogonist once per 24 turns. Grand Theogonist can fight or finish standard improvement or small wonder. I also plan to add one more hero produced by wonder, this time with combat and build-army ability (that's Yoda's idea).

Worth noting is that you can have race-specific leaders (in terms of unit graphics) if you use civ-specific tech trees with each era available only to one civ-group. This was a plan for Warhammer 40K mod in which one era was imperial, with space marine leader, one orcish era with orc leader and so on.

Can't help you with flag unit, again, it's pretty limited.

7) speaking of victory points, your requirements are very low. If I do a regicide game, about half the kings are still alive when I reach the limit.
I doubled the points and tried a mass regicide game, and they still too low, there are currently 11 factions alive and I'm very close to the limit, some more kislev winged lancers, and the game will be over.

The problem is that you are referring to standard civ3 rules You must complain to Firaxis on this one - I didn't change victory point conditions at all. I consider VP play as feature for scenarios not random maps, and I won't work on scenarios until 2.0 is finished and tested.

8) speaking of winged lancers, as I built an empire army, they could be hired as allies, they were fast but weak cavalry units. I think they are currently too god for this, I probably would remove 1 point of defense and add it to the horse archers instead. Kislev AI is using them to defend infantry, which shouldn't be their purpose.

I guess I can change this, I didn't think of Winged Lancers in any other way than knights flavor unit for Kislev. That horse archer animation belongs to Ungols now (new faction in 2.0) while Kislev has usual cavalry (until someone makes suitable unit). Maybe take 2 points of defense from Lancers and add 1 movement? That would make them 8.4.3 (compared to 8.6.2 Knight and 6.3.3 Cavalry/Horse Archer).

9) finally one last thing: I don't understand the way spells work: I attack a 4/6 horse archer with a gaseous cloud, and as soon as the attack animation is over, the unit heals to 5/6, before it takes the damage. I reloaded several times, and the healing occured each time. Can you tell me why?

You could saw this this because units were stacked. If cruise missile hits a stack, a more healthy one from the stack immediately jumps to the top, however you state that horse archer was 4/6.
From technical point of view - spells are just cruise missiles. Make a test with a single victim to see the effect - Gaseous Cloud deals from 0 to 5 damage. It works perfectly here and such healing of units is technically impossible in civ3, at least no one discovered it yet

10) ok, I said finally, but one more think in mind: for some kind of pollution spell, you could use a nuke with an attack value of 1. That way it cannot do much damage but should still do pollution.

Nuke has no attack value. It has always the same effect, unfortunately hard-coded in game.

11) one more, pollution isn't shown in the city screen as it is in a normal game. Thus I was caught by surprise when my cities were producing pollution as I had no workers around.

This is quite right. There are only 4 wonders causing pollution, and you are informed by its hazards in civilopedia.

12) If you have more than 8 strategic ressources in the city screen, they won't be displayed anymore. Is it possible to change camels, wolves and raptors to bonus ressources so the rest will be displayed correctly, or won't they be allowd as a prerey in that case? Elefants are luxuries and are still prerequisites, I don't know if this would work with bonus ressouces, too.

It is not possible - bonus resources can not be prerequisites for anything. Luxuries can, but this limitation is valid for them as well (no more than 8 will show up). This isn't really much of a problem, just a visual glitch and every mod with bigger set of resources has to live with it.

Again, thanks for input. I'll be running closed beta-test of WH-Mod 2.0 soon, feel free to join then to discuss new features and overall shape of the mod

 

[Gabryel Karolin]

Hmm, been playing one game for 4 hours or so but now something got seriously wrong. The game starts looking for a Fire catapult file which is, supposedly, located in the rise of Rome scenario folder . And when it cant find it the game exits.

Art/Units/Fire catapult/.../.../.../Art/Units/Rise of Rome/Fire catapult/Fire catapult default.pcx

WTH?

 

[embryodead]

Originally posted by Gabryel Karolin
Hmm, been playing one game for 4 hours or so but now something got seriously wrong. The game starts looking for a Fire catapult file which is, supposedly, located in the rise of Rome scenario folder . And when it cant find it the game exits.

Yes the mod uses Fire Catapult from Rise of Rome through a linked INI file. It works fine here and no one reported problems with it yet. Are you sure you meant Fire Catapult not Trebuchet? (which was indeed wrongly linked - a fix for this is on the 1st page).

EDIT: This is what it should look for (and find it):

Art\Units\Fire Catapult\..\..\..\..\..\Conquests\Rise of Rome\Art\Units\Fire Catapult\Fire catapult default.flc

What do you have in your WH-Mod\Art\Units\Fire Catapult\Fire Catapult.INI ?
Should be the above line, without the first part (Art\Units\Fire Catapult\)

 

[Isembard]

Just a query, embroydead as, after doing a little tinkering with rules and some documentation on some of the little things i've tried to tinker with (which you might also be filling in version 2.0, but well, we'll see ) , i'm getting really down to that map...You said above you were planning a scenario based around the Old World... I thought that i mgiht as well, in the same time, provide you with that, so that you could spend more time doing other things, and perhaps do other scenarios... Would your map only concern old world, with perhaps Norsca and Araby, or also Ulthuan and Naggaroth ?

Because i'm hesitating between continuing with either 2 outlines i did for a map, one being what i described above and one much more concentrated with old world, cut off at the World's edge mountains, the start of araby, and norsca to the north...

 

[embryodead]

@Isembard

I need several maps:
- Map of the Warhammer World (probably 160x160 or 180x180), including absolutely everything, though the bottom of lustria/southlands and southern chaos wastes should be chopped off).
- Map of the "Center", this is already done (WH-World), I just need to cut a bit off the left and right side with the new MapTweaker utility.
- Small map containing only Naggaroth and Ulthuan for Elven Civil War scenario.
- Medium or Large map of the Old World, stopping at World's Edge Mountains, including Araby, Norsca and a bit of Chaos Wastes (only to place there some special, chaotic NPC unit-factories). No Ulthuan of course. This is for "The Rise of the Empire"; the idea is to have larger scale and more detail than in the current world map, so that The Empire has 15-20 cities not 6.
- Small Map of Far East, from Ind to Nippon, including Northern Steppes and a bit of Chaos Wastes to put similiar chaotic NPC there.

I can not promise I'll finally use your map, though if we cooperate (read: you will accept my constant whining ) it may turn out well. I have all kinds of source maps if you need them, including some converted to coloured outlines for BMP2BIC utility. Make sure you have than one, and new MapTweaker too (1st one works on BIC, second on BIX... but it works ok to do it from BMP -> BIC -> BIX -> BIQ). MapTweaker allows copy'n'pasting and non-destructive resizing of maps, it's god-sent. Finally, thanks