Warhammer Fantasy Mod 2.1

[Stormrage]

Does Tilea has its own regular infantry? Or they just use mercenaries, like represented in the mod? If it does, than the Italian (duh, Tilea!) Foot Knight would fit, or no?

Can you please, please PM me your list of changes? Mine can be found from page 18 (or is it 19?), there are several versions, most of them not being accepted by the modders, and prowen wrong, so it actually isn`t my "official" list of changes anymore. Im sticking with the Tilea-USA-Ungols color exchange though. Wild horses wouln`t convice me that it`s not a great idea

I like the worker-upgrades to milita idea! Not the slaves though, they can`t be trusted... If that upgrade-downgrade thing works, than it could be used here too, because, after a war, you need workers to fix all those pillaged tiles, and militia turns back to peasents afterwords anyway.
Really can`t help you with that Free Companies unit look-alike, i don`t think it exits... So, without a unit gfx, you do not have a unit (for me atleast, I`m all about UU-s and FU-s..hehe, meaning Flavour Units )... So, you don`t have a change... So, I`m sticking to my idea, until you or someone else comes up with a better one. Oh yeah, and it has to be do-able
I`m not so sure on removing the Reiksguard knight, i like him.

And how bout this, (try to think like me: I LIKE R8XFT`s UNITS), his Norman swordman AND spearman for infantry-pikemen, and more expensive Greatswords and Reiksguards as elite units, maybe even put in a tech that comes later in the Dark Ages, or even Age of Magic? Where`s the Tactics tech, in Dark Ages? You probably won`t like this, but please tell me if it would make sense, I don`t know that much about WH.

And now, for some of R8XFT`s cool units that would fit:
A new pikeman for Ind?
The Ungols should get this one...
A new babe for the Amazons?
A new babe for the Amazons? 2

If your resource change didn`t remove the boars, consider the one that can be found here. When I first saw the boar resource in the mod, i thought it was a dead fish

Make both chaos warriors and bestigors be the infantry unit. Same stats or bestigors weaker and cheaper. Now you can build the ones you like better, a bit of CW-s, and a horde of Bestigors, or the other way around. Same thing with the defensive lines. At first you have beastman, that would upgrade to ungors, and spearmen that wouldn`t upgrade (cause there is no unit that would represent the Chaos pikeman). How would the AI react to this?

 

[mrtn]

A unit can't downgrade, the editor is hardcoded so you don't get units to upgrade to themselves.
A unit can only be upgraded to a unit that you can build, so units produced by an improvement should in most cases not upgrade.

 

[Stormrage]

Now, that`s a shame...

No other comments? We talked about a lot of stuff on the previous page...

The D&D mod has 4 cool variations of wywerns. The red one for Lahmia, the black one for Sylvannia, the green one for Orcs (has the exact same color as aaglo`s orcs!) and the original (i think) one for Goblins.

 

[Gomurr]

Does Tilea has its own regular infantry? Or they just use mercenaries, like represented in the mod? If it does, than the Italian (duh, Tilea!) Foot Knight would fit, or no?

As I understand it, they do have some local military forces, they just suppliment every army with skilled mercenaries. I personally don't think the Italian Foot Knight would fit with Tilea, but I have nothing really to justify that beyond my own sense of the style of the Tilean military.

Can you please, please PM me your list of changes? Mine can be found from page 18 (or is it 19?), there are several versions, most of them not being accepted by the modders, and prowen wrong, so it actually isn`t my "official" list of changes anymore. Im sticking with the Tilea-USA-Ungols color exchange though. Wild horses wouln`t convice me that it`s not a great idea

When I have time. As it is, I have quite a bit of work I need to get done this week, so I don't know if I'll have time to enumerate my changes.

Really can`t help you with that Free Companies unit look-alike, i don`t think it exits... So, without a unit gfx, you do not have a unit (for me atleast, I`m all about UU-s and FU-s..hehe, meaning Flavour Units )... So, you don`t have a change... So, I`m sticking to my idea, until you or someone else comes up with a better one. Oh yeah, and it has to be do-able

The European Swordsman would work fine for the free company. So would the Belgian Resistor. When I said I haven't found a good unit for this, I meant that I haven't taken the time to search through all the units and find what I deem most appropriate. There are a number of units out there that I could make do with, though.

And how bout this, (try to think like me: I LIKE R8XFT`s UNITS), his Norman swordman AND spearman for infantry-pikemen, and more expensive Greatswords and Reiksguards as elite units, maybe even put in a tech that comes later in the Dark Ages, or even Age of Magic? Where`s the Tactics tech, in Dark Ages? You probably won`t like this, but please tell me if it would make sense, I don`t know that much about WH.

I'd still say it doesn't fit because: the Empire does not have a uniform military, so the uniformity of the Norman Swordsman, Spearman and Reiksguard Knights does not appear Imperial; the Reiksguard Knights are just another order of knights like the Knights Panther or Knights of the White Wolf, and they do not have a common infantry branch, nor does the rest of the Imperial army wear their insignia; and finally, the Norman units don't look germanic, including the Reiksguard knight. But while the Knightly orders do not need to look specifically germanic, as they have distinct styles rooted in their founding, the common infantry ideally should reflect the germanic nature of the people. I'm not saying don't do it in your own mod - the idea certainly does have it's merits. I just don't think it fits the Empire, and so should not be included in the official mod release.

 

[Stormrage]

Well, if we give the Bretonnians (in personal mods, not to sound like this is MY mod) the CamJH`s Domani unit, since we agree it fits better, where do we put the Italian Foot Knight? Maybe you are ready to kick him out, but I think he looks extra cool, and don`t wanna loose him. Any suggs?

Um, ok, let go of what the unit looks like, already, in case you haven`t noticed I`m gonna use it anyway! I think all units (except the gunman) the mod has for Reikland are the best ones available ... Normans included!, because civ units are like that, one represents them all. Would be nice if every next footman produced would look unique though
I was asking what do you think of having cheap infantry AND pikemen for Reikland, representing in a way (my-confusing-noob way ) your idea of Free Companies. And moving the Greatswordsman AND the Reiksguard up the tech tree, to Strategy. Or even further from it, maybe in the 3. age, representing the appearance of rennesaince-type (post medieval) clothes and armor.

Tnx for the change-list.

If you have the D&D mod, look for an Arquebusier, do the Debug, check it out. Isn`t he PERFECT for Gunman? And the Shadow or something ("invisible" swordman) would be good for an Dolgan Assassin, because you can still see he has wolf ears, and I think Dolgans wear a lot of those pelts. And his death sounds like howling of wolfs in a blizzard, its so cool! Also, the Darokin crossbowman would be neat for Empire. He has a feather on his helm, and has a really big crossbow, looks advanced. What is the mod using for empire`s crossbowmen, i forgot?

I will try to find links to those units, if you guys didnt dl the D&D.
No opinion on other changes?

 

[Wolfhart]

Like so many others I've also been doing my own private version of this excellent mod, and I use the new units from Anno Domini as Free Companies wonder-spawned mercenaries. They use the same basic attires and moves with colour as the most notable difference, so I figured they'd all be recognized as mercs from different companies.

 

[Stormrage]

I don`t like spawned units. Could I take, say the Norman, Saxon, and Goth swordsman, give them all the same stats and put them in Feudalism? How would AI react? If it works that would be almost like painting your own WH miniatures, this one will be in a blue tunic, Cout X sent a group of his footmen to fight for the Emperor, and this one will be in red, he`s one of Baron Y`s men, and so on. And since you are the Emperor, and it so happens that you like one particular unit of all of them, you can build that one more often, with an excuse that when you play, Elector Z is one of your best and most loyal friends

Hey, look! I became a Warlord? SWEET! When did this happen? After 100 posts or someting?

 

[mrtn]

That would make the tech tree ugly, but it would work, I even think that the AI would build about equal amounts of the units.

 

[Stormrage]

How much time do you spend looking at the tech tree? Don`t you already know it by heart
But, I`m not sure what do you mean? Why would it be ugly?

Gomurr, my friend, what do you think of it?

 

[aaglo]

Several graphics, same stats? available for one civ at same tech?

I don't know how the AI would handle that. AI could get confused (build none of them), build only one type, or mix them all.

Pro's about that idea:
- human player would have larger variety of unit graphics which can add character to the game

Con's about that idea:
- human player would have large build list (which is annoying)
- we don't (yet) know how the AI would handle that
- tech tree would become littered - maybe even some rearrangements to the tech trees would be needed (there's only a certain number of possible things you can show in tech trees).

Besides, you can add character to the game by renaming your troops too. So, I'm really not in favour of the multiple similar units for one civ - it's confusing and it unnecessarily slows down the game.

About those unit suggestions in your post (#461) -
-I can't see the first one.
-That asian swordsman... I'm not sure yet
-Those both girls are "no" IMO... those horns on their helmets don't really say "amazon" to me

BTW, there must be something wrong with you Stormrage - you didn't edit your last post

 

[Stormrage]

I was just about to...

The idea was mainly aimed to Gomurr, cause he wants a non-uniform style for the Empire, I`m going with just the Normans
Can it be made so that only one icon represents them in the tech tree? The build list would have to be large, no way to fix that..


I fixed the link on the first one, aaglo, check it out now... And, aren`t amazons suppose to be descendandts of Norse valkyres? Horns + Helmet = Norse...

Make both chaos warriors and bestigors be the infantry unit. Same stats or bestigors weaker and cheaper. Now you can build the ones you like better, a bit of CW-s, and a horde of Bestigors, or the other way around. Same thing with the defensive lines. At first you have beastman, that would upgrade to ungors, and spearmen that wouldn`t upgrade (cause there is no unit that would represent the Chaos pikeman). How would the AI react to this?

In this case we have only two units in the same tech, not a bunch like for Reikland. Now, what could we use for Chaos pikeman? Not necesarily a pikeman unit, but a defensive one... What was used before Bestigors? I forgot.

 

[Gomurr]

I don't have time for an extended response, but I'll spare a moment to correct a misunderstanding of what I believe the Empire military should contain.

It is not that Empire needs a variety of different insignia for their common soldiery. In my opinion, that would be more appropriate for Bretonia. It is that the common soldier of the Empire is devoid of insignia. It's generic. The Greatswords, for example, work fine because there's no specific emblems on them like the various knights, and the Norman guys, have. By giving the common troops the insignia of the Reiksguard, you're creating a uniform, Reiksguard army that is not consistent with the Empire of Warhammer.

And as for your earlier comments regarding my discussion of the appearance of the units, an your percieved mootness of the issue - my comments are not made solely for your benefit, Stormrage. I am not really concerned if you choose to include the Normans in your mod. My continued comments regarding the appearance are meant for Mr. Do, Aaglo, mrtn and the like, to try to keep them from including such a unit change in the general mod.

That being said, I rather like your idea of including the various Anno units, though I'd give them to Bretonia. I may have to look into doing that. It may make the tech tree look abominable, but that is of relatively little significance to me. Hell, I think I have a tech or two that I added that aren't even on the tree because I've never bothered to learn how to chance the appearence of the tech tree.

 

[Stormrage]

I don't have time for an extended response

Too bad... I really like those...Even if they completly proove me wrong.

Mootnes? Does it have to do with halflings?
Sorry, that one is a "big word" for me, english is not my first language.
OK, so I misunderstood, it happens.. All the time

Yet, again, my suggestions are of some value to you! How, oh how would you manage without me?

Would this guy pass as an Ungol soldier replacement (even just for me?)
And Kislev should get this guy?

 

[Gomurr]

Depends. Visually they both could fit, I think. However, the Ungols really shouldn't have much in the way of infantry, if any. As I understand it, nearly all Mongolian soldiers are mounted, and the Ungols are described as learning to ride before learning to walk, so they almost certainly mimic the Mongols in that regard. The unit could possible serve to replace the graphics of one of the current Ungol infantry units, though I'm not familiar enough with the Ungol units to suggest where.

As for the territorial cavalry, I currently have that unit slotted to be added to the Border Princes civ, which I will be adding once I finish with Tilea. In my opinion, he looks a little too civilized for one of the Kislevite Horse archers, which are drawn from the tribes East of Kislev. It struck me as a perfect unit for the Border Princes, though, because one of their princedoms is Dolgany, which descended from a Dolgan tribe and has Dolgan aspects in its military. I suppose you could give it to Kislev if you wanted, though I think the current horse archer graphic is more appropriate.

 

[Stormrage]

The R8XFT`s asian swordsman should replace the swordsman gfx (smithing) and the one in post #473 could (yeah, the first one is not an option, it`s a must! For me atleast) replace the Ungol soldier gfx (pikeman).

...Border Princes civ....
...How bout posting it on the forums as an independant expansion? Maybe the Italian Foot Knight would fit with them (provided that the Domani unit takes his place in Bretonnia). You could also put that guy that used to be a Halfling before Aaglo`s unit pushed him out. He could be a swordsman, there is a normal-sized version of him, the original one. Also, the spanish pikeman for a pikeman unit (i`ll put a link later, got to go to work now.)
In Fledgling Death`s map, there is just enough space to squeeze them in!
You`ve just made my day! Thank you!

And what do you guys think where should be the starting point for the Skaven, once they get finished? It`ll get a bit crowded...

A bit off topic, the "black african" equivalent in WH? Doesn`t exist?

 

[mrtn]

...Can it be made so that only one icon represents them in the tech tree? The build list would have to be large, no way to fix that..

No.

... And, aren`t amazons suppose to be descendandts of Norse valkyres? Horns + Helmet = Norse...

If you say that once more I'll rip your head off and crap down the hole. The vikings did not have horns on their helmets.
Personally I'd rather just remove the whole silly Amazon civ, but that's just me.

... Now, what could we use for Chaos pikeman? Not necesarily a pikeman unit, but a defensive one... What was used before Bestigors? I forgot.

Minotaurs used to be the Chaos second defender. I think that the Bestigor should be upped to 6/6/1, this is how the Minotaur used to be, and it's silly if it's not as offensive...
I don't know if this is a good idea or not, but we could make the Fleshhound the second Chaos defender if we want. This keeps the Bestigor offensive, and seems to fit at least some of what I've read about them. (Immune against non-magical weapons, according to the Deamonslayer novel.)

BTW, I'd like to see utah's chin spearman (which Stormrage want for the Ungols for some strange reason) as cathayan 2nd defender. It fits better than the footman.

How about letting the Domani replace the Italian as the Man-at-arms, and letting the Italian replace the current Infantry? They look almost exactly the same, but the Italian has better quality.

@aaglo: About that Harad Swordsman, you didn't add it to the units32, right? Should be done.

 

[Gomurr]

...Border Princes civ....
...How bout posting it on the forums as an independant expansion? Maybe the Italian Foot Knight would fit with them (provided that the Domani unit takes his place in Bretonnia). You could also put that guy that used to be a Halfling before Aaglo`s unit pushed him out. He could be a swordsman, there is a normal-sized version of him, the original one. Also, the spanish pikeman for a pikeman unit (i`ll put a link later, got to go to work now.)

1) I doubt I could post it on the forums, as I have no idea how to do such a thing. 2) I do not share your attachment to the Italian Foot Knight, and as far as my version of this mod is concerned, he will die when replaced by the Domani. 3) I suppose it's feasible, I'd have to see whether he fit in. I haven't spenta whole lot of time mapping out what to do with the BP, as I'm focusing on editing other civs first. 4) I've seen 2 spanish pikemen, both of which are included in my edited version of Estalia, so I won't be adding them to the BP. You're welcome to, though.

And what do you guys think where should be the starting point for the Skaven, once they get finished? It`ll get a bit crowded...

I think the more appropriate term is if, not once, the Skaven get finished. If they get finished, though, their starting point would have to be Skavenblight, in the swamps between Estalia and Tilea. On the map I use for my mod, most of the cities are preplaced, so I'd give the Skaven their scattered strongholds across the globe and give them some sort of airport improvement that allows for units to be transfered between them to replicate the Skaven tunnel network.

A bit off topic, the "black african" equivalent in WH? Doesn`t exist?

No, their's no southern african civilization like the Zulu in any prior Warhammer canon. I suppose that's what happens when the Egypt-like civilization becomes a horde of undead under the rule of a necromancer who wants to extinguish all life.

Personally I'd rather just remove the whole silly Amazon civ, but that's just me.

No, not just you. I, for one, have removed them. They aren't a noteworthy civ in WH, and in the game they were just getting in the way Naggaroth clashing with the Lizardmen. So, poof, no more Amazons.

 

[Steadboy]

Alright, I've downloaded all the **** on your first page but i'm weary about installing it. I have some questions. Will I be able to play my other scenarios without having to make any backups. And are all the files on the first page all you need?

 

[Wauthan]

Alright, I've downloaded all the **** on your first page but i'm weary about installing it. I have some questions. Will I be able to play my other scenarios without having to make any backups. And are all the files on the first page all you need?

Yes and yes.

 

[Frostyboy]

I have converted an image of a GW Salamander miniature. The recent one looks more like a Stegadon but I though this as an alternative.

Frosty