Warhammer Fantasy Mod 2.1

[Frostyboy]

Maybe there should be a second common beast resource. The 1st for the basic beast units and a second for the advance beast units. So all beast units from 1st 2 eras need common beast, and all from 2nd 2 eras need advanced beast. That would make the game fairer

I think that will just be confusing unless the new beast rescourse is specific, like dragons or similar. For the moment only Raptors and Elephants are specified beasts, just like wolves were.

Why must Beastmen come from the Beast rescource? I mean beastmen are a part of chaos in a way like kroxigors are a part of the lizardmen.

After my opinion, beasts should include non-humanoid creatures only.

 

[mrtn]

How are you doing for maps? Do you need help with the map creation?

This is foremost a mod and not a scenario, i e the random map version is most important.
I have started adapting embryodead's old 1.1 map to the mod, however I don't know the geography too well, and could use some help with the start locations of the new civs. I've got Lahmia placed, but need info on the Chaos Dwarves and Ind. Sylvania (as before) and Westerland are most likely not gonna be in, for game play reasons, they'd hinder Reikland too much.
I haven't tried other maps, so I can't comment on them.

I'm not sure what the newest rules are but I can tell you their knights are called wights not black knights

The new rules disagree with you.

Why must Beastmen come from the Beast rescource? I mean beastmen are a part of chaos in a way like kroxigors are a part of the lizardmen.

Mr Do said he refuse to turn Chaos into Beasts of Chaos. So, for game play reasons they need a resource.

 

[Stormrage]

I`m not even sure how does it work now, haven`t been playing lately (no time)
Wasn`t it like this?:
Elephants - mammoths and elephants
Raptors - Cold one knights and riders
Wolfs for - wolf chariots, riders, vargs, wolf hounds, dire wolfs
Gryphon`s nest - gryphons (eagles?)
Boars were just bonus I think, boar units were added recently (should be for ork boars, keep reading)
Camels and horses - for various camel and horseman units.
Heardstone - beastmen
Was the sheep (wool) resource used for that dwarven cruise missile?
Am I forgeting anything?

Why not keeping it as it was, while making stegadons, war hydras, wyverns, pegasus, taurus, etc., and any other unit cept dragons that wasnt depended on a resource, depend on the beast/monster resource (new, less specific icon - the flesh hound screams Beastmen!).
And make beastmen depend on Warpstone? It is the cause of the mutations, right?

 

[mrtn]

The nest is still needed for gryphons.
A unit can't require a bonus resource, so no, nothing from sheep or boars.
Warpstone are too rare to be required for beastmen.

 

[Stormrage]

Why exactly do gryphons, cold ones and elephants have their own resources, and wolfs don`t? I don`t get it...

 

[Frostyboy]

I agree there is confusion. We must balance between the "flavour" of rescources and not having too many of them.

Goblins rely too much on the wolves, and the same with boars (which never has been a strat. resc.). Griffins are good, so I agree keeping them, but dragons should be a rescource also then perhaps. Demanding rescources dor these strong creatures though will make it easier for the civs in the lead having more territory, so by not demanding rescources it will be easier for the weaker ones to defend themselves with the newest units they have discovered without having to steal some territory first.

Elephants were already a luxury rescource from vanilla civ, so it was natural to have them as a requirement for mammoths. They could be converted to the normal elephants and require beasts for mammoths as well, but I think it is a good flavour and the three civs that use them don't rely too much on them - it is more of a bonus.

Raptors are a good flavour but unfair for the dark elves since their GA unit rely on this.

The game balance should be our main focus.

 

[Stormrage]

No resurces for everyone! Weeeee
No, seriously, they work great in a scenario/map, but in a random map your position can be your doom if you play i.e. the goblins and have no beast resource... no chariots, no wolf riders, no varg riders, no war wywerns...

 

[aaglo]

I think the current resource setting is quite all right.
- Griffins as rare resource is just fine. They're rare, and they're nasty.
- Raptors are a bit of a headache, but I think that could propably be solved by increasing their stats (I guess). Dark elves and lizardmen can manage without raptors.
- I thought that dragons are sort of summoned magical creatures (I might be wrong), thus making them resource-based is a bit silly. Also, since they are uber-units in this mod, the one civ that gets the resource first would dominate the rest of the game, which is bad.
- Stormrage says, that goblins rely heavily on beasts... well yes, but even more so do Bretonnians rely on horses, and I don't hear you complaining about that. Besides, orcs&goblins have extra-cheap infantry units and WAAAGH!!!

 

[Stormrage]

Good point, never thought of it that way. I`m just used to depend on horses, back in Vanilla
What about Frosty`s mammoth idea?

Question: In the Old World map it says Wasteland (and I`m not talking about chaos)...not Westerland... confused..

 

[Frostyboy]

The same goes for Iron.
How many times haven't you experienced not getting access to iron early on for instance? It's part of the strategy to have to develop smithing early to see the iron and send some settlers there ASAP or declare war. Same goes for horses and beasts.
I love the raptors but I think it's unfair for Malekith and his Dark Elves. The Lizardmen can manage withouth raptors though. So either boost the appearace of raptors or inlucde them as beasts.

I asked earlier about the new +2HP bonus for boar chariots. Isn't this a bit too good? Only huge creatures gets +2HP (except for liches)

 

[chocmushroom]

I've just thought of a resurce. Liars. This could then be used to access all the special creatures in the 3rd era. So griffions, maybe dragons, rapturs, Wyens, all of them. It would be the same as Iron, except for the 3rd era.

 

[Stormrage]

Yeah, I`ve just read a detailed timeline of the WH world... no mention of Dolgans... It does mention a bunch of Native-American-like tribes that I didn`t know about, but no Dolgans... Amazons are kind of unique, but it seems that Dolgans are no different than the Ungols... Why are they in the mod? And yes, its a retorical question, since ED isnt here.
And Tilea should be one of the strongest in the ancient era - the Remean Empire!
Also, somekind of serpent-plague is mentioned for the lizardmen - the cobra unit (m-unit)?
And again, no Westerland, only Wasteland...

Liars, is there another word for it? Cause this one sounds like people who lie!?

 

[Snorken]

I think it's called lairs. The beast resource kinda looks like a lair.

 

[kairob]

The Westerlanders have Marienburg, which has the largest port in the world, and it is because of them that so many mercenaries appear in the Northern Old World. The Dolgans are a hugely powerful and aggressive Chaotic tribe. So they are not lairs.
However in my view the Tileans should be much more focused on mercenaries having more, better and cheaper ones around. Also the Favoured weapon in Telia is the pike which IMO should have larger significance.
Anyway that my views of the mod and other than that you have done a very good job and given me hours of enjoyment.

p.s. any chance of a grail night for the bretts?

 

[Stormrage]

No dude, I know Westerlanders "exist", and that Marienburg is important, I`m just saying that the place (country, area on the map) in the mod is caled Westerland, and in WH maps I`ve seen around it says Wasteland...
As for Dolgans being a Chaos tribe...well yeah, they are a Chaos tribe, and we already have a Chaos Civ!
I agree on the Tilea and merc. thing, but I was refering to the Ancient era, when they weren`t a bunch of city states and pety kingdoms, they were the Remean Empire - Legions `n stuff... they should be more powerfull in the first era, and look more Roman.
And just how did you connect the lair issue with all this?!?

@Chocmushromm and P.S.Y.C.H.O - we talking lair like a place, dragon`s lair? Because to me the beast resource looks like a flesh hound... The barbarian hut looks more like a lair, a mean looking cave..

 

[kairob]

sorry confused lair netween liar, my english not so good
p.s. english people can use that excuse, can't we...

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

YAY!! ive finally managed to join this site (been lurking for about 3 months )

Anyway, i am a huge fan of Warhammer and of cource Civilization, so i want to thank you all; E.D. Aaglo, Mrtn, Mr.Do, and every one else, for making this mod as great as it is. im in the process of downloading the expansion now.

Another thing is that i have made several, to scale, full maps of the warhammer world including Nippon, Cathay, Nagaroth, Lustria, and everything inbetween. the problem is that i have no idea how to post them on this forum.
they are really big, 200x200. so if any one is interested, could you please tell me how to post?

Ta, Psychic_Llamas

 

[Dracleath]

http://wquest.free.fr/warriors/W301_KisleviteShaman(Revised).htm


Dolgans aren't a chaos tribe at all. They aren't related to chaos at all. They're siberians.

Now if someone wants to add in a chaos marauders civ or add beastmen of chaos proper and remove the beastmen resource and beastmen from chaos (effectively splitting them into marauders and beastmen of chaos) that might be interesting but none of these are related to dolgans at all because dolgans are siberians...

 

[Gomurr]

Dolgans aren't a chaos tribe at all. They aren't related to chaos at all. They're siberians.

That's not true. If you go to the Warhammer site and look at their map of the chaos wastes, it clearly states that the Dolgans are a tribe of a larger people, called the Kurgan, which are affiliated with chaos (i.e. a chaos tribe). While the Dolgans may be based upon the Siberians (which I find somewhat questionable as the Dolgans are horsemen, and as far as I know Siberians are not. Furthermore, it was Dolgans who founded Dolgany, the parallel of Hungary in WH, making them more similar to Magyars than Siberians.) that does not mean that they have nothing to do with Chaos.

 

[kairob]

Also in the Hordes of Chaos army book they are discribed as Chaotic, the is also a story in which a dolgan tribethere leader is called "Child Of Chaos" and the the tribe are gifted by Tzeentch a principle chaos God.