Warhammer Fantasy Mod 2.1

[Gomurr]

@The Last Conformist - Thank you for providing a far more informed example than I. It illustrates the point far better than my own assertions.

@Stormrage - I've compilled a large list of what units are available, including those, for use when editing my version of the mod. I appreciate the interest, but unit suggestions aren't really necessary (though, you did point out that bear unit that I missed). Plus, I'm yet to finish messing with Tilea, so it'll be a while yet before I even start on the Border Princes.

@mrtn - Who said anyone cares whether the currently nonexistent Border Princes go into your mod? And on a side note, is it your mod? I thought Mr. Do had taken over from ED?

No it isn't. There is also value in depicting and symbolising the WH reality in an accurate way. and if it's isn't we might as well play chess. When I wrote "as possible" is exactly that. Dwarves have to have dwarven units, and elves elven. And they have different stats even though they could be unlocked by the same tech. This is what the WH mod is about, not just adding flavors. If that where the case it would only about changing the graphics around, which this mod is a lot more than.

If you notice what I wrote, I said the adding of flavor units has been one of the primary goals of the mod, not the primary goal of the mod. I never asserted it was the only goal of the mod, and such an inference would be incorrect. It has been one of the primary goals - if it hadn't, there wouldn't be different models for so many units that have identical stats - but I never said nor implied that it was the only goal, or even the main goal, of the mod. I think it's abundantly apparent, if you look at how there are at least five human spearmen units with the same stats, that the WH mod does not only use flavor when necessary; and I'm relatively sure that your latest comments were the result of misunderstanding what I said. If you really want to get into a debate about whether the Warhammer Mod has attempted to include appropriate flavor units, or whether it only included necessary flavor units and attempted to make it easy to discern the statistics of a unit by looking at it, that's fine I suppose. I always enjoy an argument so long as we remain civil But, as I said, I'm pretty sure you just misunderstood what I wrote, and as your initial comments were in protest of an idea we had already discarded, more or less, it seems like such a debate would be rather fruitless.

 

[Stormrage]

Boys, don`t argue with Gomurr, you can never win. Its just not possible. I`ve lost to him, and we didn`t even debate!
Gomurr, maybe your "Big words" english is confusing us foreign guys...Maybe its not the case with DrZoidberg (although he is an alien ) but still. I mostly understand it, but I have to read everything you post at least twice
I read a lot, and often use big words in my own language, mostly not even being aware of it until I think of a certain conversation later during the day. I`m not saying I`m smart or anything, it just happens to everyone that reads a lot. So I can understand you, but ease up on us

Gomurr, just tell me did you already use those units? If not, it doesn`t hurt to have suggestions. When you start, you start, I (and possibly others, no one else stated any interest so far) can wait
Plus, I really wanna help, can you tell me do you like my ideas so far? So I can proceed with finiding those "Europe clashes with East" type of units?
Or you don`t like brainstorm(rage)ing, and wanna do it all by yourself?

Mrtn, I did say, I think even several times, that it would be Gomurr`s unofficial expansion, meaning an added playable faction. If you don`t like us mentioning it, I can open a new thread, or talk to Gomurr via PM. But I don`t see why it wouldn`t be included officialy, my guess is that your fans would welcome an idea of having another faction to play, as there is place to add more in the mod, and having new cool units for that faction. I mean, if you have i.e. the Amazons, Dolgans, Nippon, all those factions that are (I`m guessing) barely used by hardcore WH boardgame players, whats wrong with BP? They guard the old world, right? If we all work together, with some creative input its more fun? Or not? I can`t do much, I`m not a modder, or a unit creator, searching for cool units and suggesting placement for them is the best I can do so far, but maybe someone else can join in, help out, point some things out...

That medieval indian swordsman is lightly armed (shield and a quilted jerkin) while the Haradrim is more armed (scale mail (?) and helmet). light armor should upgrade to heavy armor, not the other way round.

And I`m sorry for bringing it up again but I just have to say this: I`ve never suggested anything like that, as long as I˙m concerned the medieval indian swordsman and the haradrim shouldn`t have anything to do with each other.
Righ now the mod has this lineup:
Araby: Medieval indian swordsman (light armor) -> Saracen infantry (heavy armor)
Ind : Medieval indian swordsman (light armor) -> Siamese swordman (no armor)

I suggest:
Araby: Haradrim (medium armor) -> Saracen infantry (heavy armor)
Ind : Siamese swordsman (no armor) -> Medieval indian swordsman (light armor)

 

[Dracleath]

The dolgans in WH are pretty much siberians. They use lots of horse archers, and are closely related to kislev. This isn't really suggested in the WH mod as much as it should be IMHO. I suggested the hun for both the dolgans and ungols because it makes a nice generic steppe infantry unit.

 

[Stormrage]

Again...which hun unit, Dom Pedro`s or R8XFT`s?
There are 2 of them.. even more of them that are mounted...
What do you think of Gomurr`s centaur idea?

 

[Dracleath]

oh I was thinking of dom pedros.

The centaur idea would be fine I think, but I think they need at least one decent infantry unit in the second age as well.

And it should be steppe-siberianish. Right now the keshik is the only flavored unit they have and there are steppe units all over the place that could be used. What mounted units do you mean? maybe one of them should replace the keshik and the keshik should be moved to 2nd age.

 

[Stormrage]

You know, the mongol without a hat, the one with a hat, the one with two horses, If you`ve ever seen the Golden Horde multi-unit, i think they are all in there. Also I think the Ungols are using all of them, keshik included. So its a no-go on that.

I was thinking of giving the Dom Pedro`s unit to Ungols, in second age, to replace their Ungol soldier AND heavy archer, cause Ungol soldier is ugly, and the Heavy archer is based on a Korean looking unit, and so it would be more appropirate for Cathay. One other reason is that they are horse people, and don`t need those two foot units if there is one with both wapons..he is armed with a "spear" type weapon and a bow. So he would have 6 for defense and 4(?) on attack, so he can be supportive, but marked as defensive so AI uses him as it would with a regular pikeman. R8XFT`s one would just replace the regular civ swordsman gfx for the marauder unit (just for Ungols).

And for giving him (Dom pedro`s) to Dolgans also... I dunno, he just looks too civilized, but then again I`m just judging by their LH.. I was searching for ages for an appropriate infantry unit for them, but no luck so far...
I wish someone could grant my request for giving the germanic spearman an axe or a sword..

add hun in as offensive infantry unit,
add an appropriate defensive spearman from anno domini

What appropirate defensive spearman from anno domini? Where? Bear in mind that it has to look Dolganish


Also, is there any mention of Gnolls and Ettins (Two headed giants/ogres) in WH?

 

[Dracleath]

I really think you're putting too much stock in the leaderhead though, they're siberian so they should be steppish. As a sort of guide think Conan (though he was crimean, so more steppish and northern).

They're not cavemen. Dolgans in real life refers to a group of people in the sibir area. If anything we should change the leaderhead.

Ed - for more:

The original siberians were called the samoyeds. There are essentially 2 groups of this group of people. One in the north was and is pretty much like the eskimos. These usually don't fight much, because it's too cold to fight and no one wants the land that much anyway... If they did the Hunter unit would probably be appropriate, or germanic spearman. They live what is essentially a stone age life.

The other group lives in the south, and is very mongol and hun influenced. From them you'd expect to see pretty much anything you'd see for the mongols and huns. Horse archers and similarly styled clothes.

The dolgans in WH seem to be a mix of these two groups.

Also in real life siberians had a big shamanic tradition, this might need to be represented more (though they already do get a shaman.

Ed: And dompedros hun looks pretty much exactly what I'd expect a southern siberian unit to look like. It's perfect. And again maybe the dolgans should start more stone age but move to be more hunnish towards the second age by moving the keshik to that era and boosting its stats?


One more thing also, the ungols get the kossar, this seems really wildly out of place for them, maybe it should be replaced rather than the korean unit? At least koreans fought alongside mongols and were often used as soldiers in the mongolian army. Move him to age 1 maybe? It doesn't particularly look that heavy per se or much different from any other archer.

 

[Gomurr]

Gomurr, maybe your "Big words" english is confusing us foreign guys...Maybe its not the case with DrZoidberg (although he is an alien ) but still. I mostly understand it, but I have to read everything you post at least twice
I read a lot, and often use big words in my own language, mostly not even being aware of it until I think of a certain conversation later during the day. I`m not saying I`m smart or anything, it just happens to everyone that reads a lot. So I can understand you, but ease up on us

Sorry, it never crossed my mind that others might find my writing hard to understand. Concision doesn't come naturally to me, but I'll try to remember.

Gomurr, just tell me did you already use those units? units?

Regarding those units: I don't like the Sea People and have no intention of using them; I intend on using the Kandori as a Border Prince infantry, most likely; I am debating between adding the Easterling to Kislev, as their military is supposed to be composed largely of axe-wielders yet doesn't have them in the game, or using it as a type of Varangian Guard unit for the Border Princes, and; as for the pietone and polmee units, I'm still considering whether they'd fit in with Tilea or the Border Princes, though I haven't taken the time to really look into it yet. Some time this weekend I'll PM you a list of the units I already have under consideration so that your suggestions, should you feel compelled to make more of them, won't be redundant.

Mrtn, I did say, I think even several times, that it would be Gomurr`s unofficial expansion, meaning an added playable faction.

errm... I said I might be willing to share a civ I plan on creating, if someone told me how to do it. I'm not intent on releasing an expansion for this mod.

The dolgans in WH are pretty much siberians. They use lots of horse archers, and are closely related to kislev. This isn't really suggested in the WH mod as much as it should be IMHO. I suggested the hun for both the dolgans and ungols because it makes a nice generic steppe infantry unit.

I agree with that completely. It looks as appropriate for the Dolgans and Ungols as any foot unit I've seen.

Also, is there any mention of Gnolls and Ettins (Two headed giants/ogres) in WH?

No and no. Though I added the Ettin into my game as a Chaos Troll or Chaos Orge... or maybe Chaos Giant. I forget which. But the Chaos monsters are all mutated by chaos, and having two heads is not an uncommon mutation it seems.

 

[Stormrage]

Now boys, this is how I like you! Okay, lets see...
I didn`t say they ARE cavemen, but that they are so barbaric that they are not far from it, and i didn`t mean in the "ape" style cavemen.

The Hunter from AD could be a shaman/warrior unit?
I dunno for Kossars being wildly out of place, if the Civilopedia is right... WH is only inspired by reality...
What do you think about the Hun representing two styles of units?

I only mentioned the sea people cause they also have that black beard thing going on.. And I say Varangian Guard! Tnx, I`ll await for it eagerly Btw, did you see this guy, he`s not from around here

I`m not sure I understand you, share it just with me (and with anyone else that asks you for it)?
Because if you post it here, then its like...posted! It would add a new playable civ with new units for the WH mod, doesn`t that make it an expansion?

Check out the Dark Hoplite, the one in the upper left corner? Maybe (big maybe) a pikeman for chaos?
Also I`ve dug up these: EDIT: removed cause it was incredibly stupid! Sorry about that.

Just saw this one (in the middle)! It can replace the deahtclaw as the lesser daemon, or be added as a sepparate unit. Unfortunately, the unit has only flc. files, no ini, no sounds, no icons.. ini. and sounds can be easly fixed but someone has to do the icons..

 

[LMR]

should i use the snotling or the goblin spearman for the gnoblar? because I tried a bit using the snotling but it is too small IMO to show proper detail, ie. big ears, large noses etc.

 

[Gomurr]

In my opinion, it's has to be the snotling. Gnoblars are even smaller than goblins, maybe even smaller than snotlings, so I'd be willing to sacrifice detail for a more appropriate size. Though if it's possible to make the head proportionally larger that might help get in the details you mention

 

[LMR]

I just had an idea. I could use the goblin spearman for the model, then once i've finished it I could shrink it to the snotling's size. This could work.

 

[Stormrage]

Sounds like a good idea.
Um...what would be the stats for Gnoblars? 0.5 for attack, 0.2 for defense?

LR, please check out my request in the C&C forum (it`s still on the first page I think), maybe you`ll like it. I know you`ll be buisy with the Skaven, but just in case
Good luck next monday!

 

[Stormrage]

Hey, if Dolgans have Chaos religion, maybe they could use a Chaos Cultist?
Also, if they are that much like Ungols, maybe they should get Ungols` Lh as he looks more barbaric, and the Ungols should get a new one, from the Asian LH pack.
I also rearanged my Ungol idea, how bout having R8XFT`s Hun for their infantry, (maybe weaker than others, cause he has only a shield, no armor, and they aren`t that much talented in stand-up fighting), and Dom Pedro`s one for Defense, but not replacing the Heavy archer cause I`ve just noticed he comes one era later (dracleath, also sending him to 1.era would cripple the 3.)
I`m thinking of making a list, you know, one of those I do often, with suggested changes (everybody`s), so you don`t have to read cca. 20 posts to see them all.. Do you want me to? I`m not gonna do it, if you don`t want it, cause it`ll look stupid unanswered.
EDIT: ugh, scheit, this was supposed to be an edit of my last post (above)

 

[Frostyboy]

I don't know how it is with you guys, but I experience in Civ now that the animations often doesn't show after starting. Oftgen I have to restart the PC for the program to play the animations properly again.
I heard there were some experience eith the same problems, so therefore I am asking - Have you experienced such problems after installing the 2.1 uprades and patches?

 

[Gomurr]

Hey, if Dolgans have Chaos religion, maybe they could use a Chaos Cultist?

I'd say no. I'd always figured Chaos Cultists were like religious fanatics that were drawn to go North (to the source of Chaos and the abode of their gods), and then fought for Chaos. As such, any Cultists in chaotic civs like the Kurgan (which includes the Dolgan tribe) and the Hung (which includes the Ungol tribe) would probably have left their homes to fight for Chaos.

Also, if they are that much like Ungols, maybe they should get Ungols` Lh as he looks more barbaric, and the Ungols should get a new one, from the Asian LH pack.

What's with assuming that the Dolgans are more barbaric than the Ungols? I'd say it's the other way around, if anything. Dolgans actually interact with the civilized Old World. A group that splintered off from their tribe went and founded the Border Princedom of Dolgany. Dolgans and Kislevites east of the mountains interact frequently in peaceful ways (when the Dolgans aren't waging war, that is). The Ungols, on the other hand, occupy mountainous and frozen wastelands. The bulk of the Hung people, of which the Ungols are a part, is in the frozen lands just west of the Dark Elves. As far as I can tell, the Ungols have no peaceful interactions with 'civilized' peoples whatsoever. It isn't even really proper to claim that they represent the Mongols in the Warhammer World, as that role is taken up by the Hobgoblin Hegemony under Hobgobbla Khan. So, I'd say keep the leaderheads as they are.

 

[Stormrage]

Hob...hehe..Hobgobbla Khan?!?
Yeah, ok, ok, pretty much all I know about Wh comes from the mod. ED gave Dolgans a LH that looks almost like a caveman, and the Ungols a Conquests` LH that represents Mongols and the like...
I did see some pics of Goblin Wolf Riders with Mongol type hats, i suppose those are Hobgobbla`s lol boyz then. And, you`ve mentioned something about HH not being represented in the mod, i think the Goblins that are in the mod count as those... Atleast thats their position on the FD`s map (close enough)

Also, I`ve read somewhere that Chaos cultist travel among other nations, regruiting new cultists, so I came up with that idea.. Just trying to give those #$" Dolgans a unit or two...
What about making a Keshik + Wolf Hound multiunit?

 

[BiffQJ]

I was just playing and I encountered an error. I believe I have installed all of the updates (including 2.18), and as I was advancing from the second to the third age, the game said that it couldn't find aaglo_industrious.pcx. Where can I find this file and where can I put it so I can continue my game. I've got a good Chaos game going right now and I'm looking forward to getting some demons.

 

[Stormrage]

Go to Scenarios/WH2/Art/Erasplash and rename the file aaglo_industrial to aaglo_industrious. That should do it. As always backup the original file, as I may be wrong.

 

[mrtn]

@mrtn - Who said anyone cares whether the currently nonexistent Border Princes go into your mod? And on a side note, is it your mod? I thought Mr. Do had taken over from ED?

Well, it seemed as if Stormrage cared, as he posted about it.
And no, Mr. Do hasn't taken over from embryodead, as no one has seen him since last winter. The Warhammer mod has been hijacked, and Mr. Do is first among equals Party Secretary of the People's Democratic Republic of Altdorf.
And the Party Secretary has posted that the BPs doesn't fit as a civ.

Go to Scenarios/WH2/Art/Erasplash and rename the file aaglo_industrial to aaglo_industrious. That should do it. As always backup the original file, as I may be wrong.

Or, rather, open the Pediaicons.txt, and replace aaglo_industrious.pcx with aaglo_industrial.pcx in the two instances it appears. This is how I've solved it, and how I think it should be solved for the next update.

@Frostyboy: How good is your computer? The WH mod takes a lot of RAM (more than vanilla civ), maybe it's time to upgrade?